To those who don't vaccinate every year

[dabrat76]

Hi,

It's getting to be about that time for vaccines and flea/tick/heartworm preventative. I have a yorkie who just turned 1 (the 17th) and he came with the basic shots, no lyme disease though, which I think I should get as we'll be at our trailer in Northern NY all summer. Petsmart told me on Saturday that they've already seen ticks.

So, can someone tell me, who doesn't believe in over-vaccination, what is the list of shots I should take to my vet, and do you have suggestions on the best preventative? My vet is very old school (I'm shopping around for a new one, but there aren't many anywhere near me) and would give everything under the sun.

Thank you for your help!

Tara

[hasrv4fun]

You don't need a vaccine for lyme disease - frontline or another good flea /tick preventative ( I use Revolution ) will keep them off and no bite - don't expose your baby to unnecessary vacines - I would however definitely get their yearly booster and a rabies if you are going to be in the woods.

[Ellie May]

I would give distemper, hepatitis (adenovirus), parvo and maybe parainfluenze as puppy shots, then one year later and then no more than every three years (as long as titers are high if you choose to do them). If you find a really understanding vet, they may let you do titers only and not vaccinate until necessary while other vets don't put too much faith in them...

Rabies you will have to go with the law.

Those are the ones I'd give.

Lepto and lyme's disease are RARELY necessary and I think it should be a long and drawn out decision whether to give them or not because of their effectiveness (or lack there of) and the reaction rate of the lepto.

Lepto vaccine has caused death in Yorkies (especially puppies) but is occasionally necessary.
Lyme's vaccine may be linked to kidney failure which would be a huge concern for me.

Bordatella may be necessary for you but I do not give it and would only give it if the vet insisted on it to hospitalize Ellie.

Corona, in my opinion, should never be given.
I wouldn't give giardia either.'
If you're not giving the DHPP combo, I might also avoid the parainfluenze because it isn't a core vaccine but that is my opinion only.

It is best to do shots separately and not in a combo because that can stress the immune system and negate immunity.

ALWAYS give the rabies shot separately (about a week or two before or after other vaccines).

I think giving one vaccine/virus every week or two is best.

I like Interceptor for heartworms best.
I don't use flea/tick preventative but if I did it would probably be Frontline (as a last resort).

[dabrat76]

I don't want to expose him to unnecessary vaccines at all, but more than a few people have said lyme is a somewhat necessary one. And well, I wouldn't really call the campground "woods" lol There are treed areas for sure, but no forest! I laugh because I call it camping, but we're in a trailer with satellite and high speed internet

[dabrat76]

lyme's disease are RARELY necessary and I think it should be a long and drawn out decision whether to give them or not because of their effectiveness
I like Interceptor for heartworms best.
I don't use flea/tick preventative but if I did it would probably be Frontline (as a last resort).

Ok, I get that you say I shouldn't vaccinate for lyme's disease, but you also don't use flea/tick preventative unless it's a last resort. As SoCo ADORES being outdoors (not that I'd ever do this, but I'm pretty sure he'd prefer a dog house outside and being allowed to wander to his hearts content rather than mean mommy keeping him inside or leashed or in our fenced backyard outside) and will be outside a LOT in the summer, I have to do something to prevent fleas and ticks, right? With Tequila, our sharpei, we skipped the preventatives the last couple years since she had health issues and we never had fleas or ticks, but I'm now SO anal about SoCo's health that I don't want to take any chances at all. *I* would be happy with him in a permanent bubble but I know I can't do that

Tara

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by dabrat76

Ok, I get that you say I shouldn't vaccinate for lyme's disease, but you also don't use flea/tick preventative unless it's a last resort. As SoCo ADORES being outdoors (not that I'd ever do this, but I'm pretty sure he'd prefer a dog house outside and being allowed to wander to his hearts content rather than mean mommy keeping him inside or leashed or in our fenced backyard outside) and will be outside a LOT in the summer, I have to do something to prevent fleas and ticks, right? With Tequila, our sharpei, we skipped the preventatives the last couple years since she had health issues and we never had fleas or ticks, but I'm now SO anal about SoCo's health that I don't want to take any chances at all. *I* would be happy with him in a permanent bubble but I know I can't do that

Tara

Actually, I am not saying that you should skip the Lyme's vaccine, only that you should be sure that it is necessary.

Here is a thread about the vaccine posted by the founder of the Rabies Challenge Fund:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...inate-not.html

So, it really depends on your area.
The same goes for lepto.

I don't use flea/tick preventative because Ellie is inside most of the time, it isn't exactly necessary here and she has a liver problem. That doesn't mean I would never use it, especially if ticks were an issue here. I want to do only what I feel is absolutely necessary for her safety while not over doing.

[jp4m2]

I've been doing a lot of reading on overvaccinations also and I certainly have changed the way i look at vaccines....they are the most important thing we will do to our pets health and the certainly are NOT harmless....I used to look at it as though it was just "medicine" and it certainly can't do any harm and it surely must do some good.....that is so not the case....Dr. Jean Dodds has a chart to give a beginner a place to start.....

Vaccination Schedule Recommendations For Dogs

Here's a couple of articles to read on the subject...

Science of Vaccine Damage

The Truth About Vaccines

I never give annual boosters they are very harmful, and unnecessary...I never do a combo shot.....and I never let them do more than one shot a month....just parvo, distemper and a rabies when they are 6 months old then we are done, no annual boosters of any kind....I would never give a puppy his first shot until about 12-14 weeks old but I have no control over that the breeder usually does this way to early,in my opinion....I really wish more breeders would do research on this subject for their pups sake.....

[dabrat76]

Thank you for your help Crystal Great article, I'll definitely be skipping the lyme vaccine. Now I'm trying to find out if leptospirosis is common in Lake Champlain. The decision after that will be whether or not to give him flea and tick preventative. Ugh, so much info to sift through. I want to keep SoCo healthy, but deciding on whether that's with or without shots and meds is HARD.

[dabrat76]

Thank you BJ, fantastic links, especially the first one! I unfortunately will have to follow the rabies laws as I cross the US/Canada border with SoCo on a regular basis and while they've only checked the papers once in 4 years, if they DO check, I want to be able to cross. But I think I'm going to go with the Dr. Dodds recommendation.

Tara

[jeanietoo]

Even if you decide to give lepto which can be very dangerous for small dogs, it only protects against certain strains depending which one you give. There are several different strains. ( I would say 6 but am not sure without looking it up)

[dabrat76]

Yeah, I saw that in some of my research this morning, SoCo will not be getting lepto.

[Kris Christine]

dabrat76,

Personally, I would start by reading the information on the reference links below and give my own dogs only the 4 core canine vaccines recommended by the American Animal Hospital Association -- rabies, distemper, hepatitis, and parvo.

Kris

You might be interested in the following quotes from Dr. Dodds, Dr. Schultz, and Dr. Bob Rogers:

Are Our Pets Being Overvaccinated, by Melissa Burden, The Press Main News

(Dr. W. Jean Dodds) “But there is really no breed that is not at risk,” she said. The only vaccination needed, she asserts, is the rabies vaccine because it is legally required. Dogs’ and cats’ immune systems mature fully at 6 months old, she explained. If canine distemper, feline distemper and parvovirus vaccines are given after 6 months, a pet has immunity for the rest of its life.

(Dr. Robert Rogers) “Dogs and cats no longer need to be vaccinated against distemper, parvo, and feline leukemia every year,” Rogers said. “Once the initial series of puppy or kitten vaccinations and first annual vaccinations are completed, immunity…persists for life. Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to the potential risk of adverse reactions, he added.

This is what Dr. Ronald Schultz had to say in his 2007 presentation to the AKC Canine Health Foundation entitled,What Everyone Needs to Know About Canine Vaccines and Vaccination Programs http://www.puliclub.org/CHF/AKC2007C...0Vaccines.htm:

"My own dogs, those of my children and grandchildren are vaccinated with MLV CDV, CPV-2, CPI, andCAV-2 vaccines once as puppies after the age of 12 weeks. An antibody titer is performed two or more weeks later and if found positive our dogs are never again vaccinated. " he further elaborates: "I have used this vaccination program with modifications (CAV-2 replaced CAV-1 vaccines in 1970's and CPV-2 vaccines were first used in 1980) since 1974! I have never had one of our dogs develop CDV, CAV-1 or CPV-2 even though they have had exposure to many dogs, wildlife and to virulent CPV-2 virus. You may say that I have been lucky, but it is not luck that protects my dogs, it is immunologic memory."

Further excellent information on canine vaccines from authoritative sources is available at the links below:

Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What We Know and Don't Know, Dr. Ronald Schultz Duration of Immunity

What Everyone Needs to Know about Canine Vaccines, Dr. Ronald Schultz What Everyone Needs to Know About Canine Vaccines

World Small Animal Veterinary Association 2007 Vaccine Guidelines - WSAVA - Scientific Advisory Committee Scroll down to Vaccine Guidelines 2007 (PDF)

The 2003 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are accessible online at Special Report .

The 2006 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are downloadable in PDF format at About AAHA .

Veterinarian, Dr. Robert Rogers,has an excellent presentation on veterinary vaccines at Home

October 1, 2002 DVM Newsletter article entitled, AVMA, AAHA to Release Vaccine Positions, AVMA, AAHA to release vaccine positions - - DVM

July 1, 2003 DVM Newsletter article entitled, What Do We Tell Our Clients?, Developing thorough plan to educate staff on changing vaccine protocols essential for maintaining solid relationships with clients and ensuring quality care 'What do we tell our clients?' - Developing thorough plan to educate staff on changing vaccine protocols essential for maintaining solid relationships with clients and ensuring quality care - DVM

July 1, 2003, DVM Newsletter article, Developing Common Sense Strategies for Fiscal Responsibility: Using an interactive template to plan service protocol changes Developing common sense strategies for fiscal responsibility - Using an interactive template to plan service protocol changes - DVM

Animal Wellness Magazine Article Vol. 8 Issue 6, How Often Does he REALLY Need A Rabies Shot Animal Wellness Magazine - devoted to natural health in animals

The Rabies Challenge Animal Wise Radio Interview
Listen to Animal Wise (scroll down to The Rabies Challenge 12/9/07)

The Vaccine Challenge Animal Talk Naturally Online Radio Show » The Vaccine Challenge - Show #91

US Declared Canine-Rabies Free -- CDC Announces at Inaugural World Rabies Day Symposium CDC Press Release - September 7, 2007

Rabies Prevention -- United States, 1991 Recommendations of the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee (ACIP), Center for Disease Control's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly March 22, 1991 / 40(RR03);1-19 Rabies Prevention -- United States, 1991 Recommendations of the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee (ACIP) "A fully vaccinated dog or cat is unlikely to become infected with rabies, although rare cases have been reported (48). In a nationwide study of rabies among dogs and cats in 1988, only one dog and two cats that were vaccinated contracted rabies (49). All three of these animals had received only single doses of vaccine; no documented vaccine failures occurred among dogs or cats that had received two vaccinations. "

[yorkielovs2chat]

I don't do any more shots #1 because I don't feel my dog needs them (based on vets recommendation and research I've read) and #2 because he has a liver condition and the vets advise against it.
I have found that a tick powder (natural) that I used...Neem powder...has worked excellant at preventing ticks. We walk on wooded trails and he was getting ticks before the powder. I am VERY careful and check him over WELL when we are done walking. I've never found a flea on him.
My vet did give me a parvo nosode for when we go to agility practice and gave me directions on how to use it safely but still feels that he is protected.

[Kris Christine]

Yorkielovs2chat,

You must have a homeopathic veterinarian--as do I. It has been my personal experience that homeopaths/holistic veterinarians give disclosure about canine vaccines and do not give redundant boosters.

[ladyj]

Originally Posted by dabrat76

Hi,

It's getting to be about that time for vaccines and flea/tick/heartworm preventative. I have a yorkie who just turned 1 (the 17th) and he came with the basic shots, no lyme disease though, which I think I should get as we'll be at our trailer in Northern NY all summer. Petsmart told me on Saturday that they've already seen ticks.

So, can someone tell me, who doesn't believe in over-vaccination, what is the list of shots I should take to my vet, and do you have suggestions on the best preventative? My vet is very old school (I'm shopping around for a new one, but there aren't many anywhere near me) and would give everything under the sun.

Thank you for your help!

Tara

You can check out what the experts are saying about vaccinations at

VACCINOSIS.

Dr. Jean Dodd is a recognized expert. You can check out the site at

W Jean Dodds Vaccine Protocol VACCINATION PROTOCOLS

This has been a hot topic on the Bichon List. A lot of people are getting very concerned about over-vaccination. I have two Bichons, ages 9 and 11, and the 11-year-old will not get any more vaccinations except rabies, which is required by law. The 9-year-old is a therapy dog and he is required to get his vaccinations every year. I'm hoping that that requirement will change as more and more experts recommend less frequent vaccination. My puppy mill Chihuahua will get vaccinations according to the recommendations of Dr. Dodd. She's a year old now. My granddaughter's Yorkie, who is a year old, got all of her vaccinations and they are going to follow Dr. Dodd's recommendations, too.