training issues (positive or treats/clicker)

[Maria19]

Hello all,

I'm having trouble deciding on what method is better for my Nene'.

I have spoken with 4 trainers two that uses the positive reinforcement method and one with the clicker/treats method and one that said that he would need private lesson because of the following actions:

I've tried the Heel method with praise but that isn't working for us since he still pulls and all he wants is sniff and explore and to meet other dogs but at the same time he is selective on who he wants to meet and who he doesn't want to get along with. Is this normal? He is already doing the humping action as well which I'm trying to stop him from doing. Nope he isn't neutered yet because I would like to mait him at least once before doing so.

He is very playful and sweet with me and other humans, kids too.

I really need all the advice and leads that you yorkie experts can share with me.

Signed Desparately seeking affordable training and counseling for Me first then Nene'

[Erin]

Loki did the lunging pulling thing at other dogs and we did not need private lessons. We just sat far enough away from the other dogs in class so he didn't do it. Go for it if you can afford it, but it's also good for the trainer to see that reaction. It's also good to have nice interactions with calm, friendly dogs and your trainer can set that up. Clicker IS positive reinforcement. Clicker is fantastic but it's also difficult to juggle a small dog, a leash, treats and a clicker. A verbal marker works fine IF you are consistent (A verbal marker + treat should be what those other two are using.)

Heel is difficult to teach the "big dog" way because our dogs are so short. With a tall dog you just hold a treat in your hand and have them follow your hand and get used to walking next to you. A better thing to teach is Loose Leash Walking. Heel is only important if you are going into the show ring. Otherwise you just want to teach your dog not to pull you down the street. Maybe ask about a Canine Good Citizen class? That is covered in CGC.

Good luck! Loki and I took many classes over the last 2 years because we enjoyed them so much.

[robbin]

Just a note that I hope you use a harness not a collar because their throats (can't spell trachea ) are so delicate

[Maria19]

Originally Posted by Erin

Loki did the lunging pulling thing at other dogs and we did not need private lessons. We just sat far enough away from the other dogs in class so he didn't do it. Go for it if you can afford it, but it's also good for the trainer to see that reaction. It's also good to have nice interactions with calm, friendly dogs and your trainer can set that up. Clicker IS positive reinforcement. Clicker is fantastic but it's also difficult to juggle a small dog, a leash, treats and a clicker. A verbal marker works fine IF you are consistent (A verbal marker + treat should be what those other two are using.)

Heel is difficult to teach the "big dog" way because our dogs are so short. With a tall dog you just hold a treat in your hand and have them follow your hand and get used to walking next to you. A better thing to teach is Loose Leash Walking. Heel is only important if you are going into the show ring. Otherwise you just want to teach your dog not to pull you down the street. Maybe ask about a Canine Good Citizen class? That is covered in CGC.

Good luck! Loki and I took many classes over the last 2 years because we enjoyed them so much.

Thank you so much for your input. I had one of the trainers come over for a free consult and training session and she was using the choke trainer and I told her I didn't want it used for my Nene' for the very reason of their delicate tracheas/neck. So right now Im going thru a ruff time even potty training him because I thought that using the newspaper treatment it would sink in by now. I've had him since Oct 06 and I thought he would be fully potty trained by now but it has gotten worse again. Just last night he also chewed off an extension cord which was accidentally left off of my shredder unplugged. He's constantly marking everywhere, inside and outside. Im pray I can get him finally trained before I start school in late Aug. The crate idea is sounding like a good idea but that means I have to put up with his constant barking and crying again!!!!!!!urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

I love my dog but this poty training is reaaaaaalllllllly getting to me!!!!!!!!!

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Maria19

Thank you so much for your input. I had one of the trainers come over for a free consult and training session and she was using the choke trainer and I told her I didn't want it used for my Nene' for the very reason of their delicate tracheas/neck. So right now Im going thru a ruff time even potty training him because I thought that using the newspaper treatment it would sink in by now. I've had him since Oct 06 and I thought he would be fully potty trained by now but it has gotten worse again. Just last night he also chewed off an extension cord which was accidentally left off of my shredder unplugged. He's constantly marking everywhere, inside and outside. Im pray I can get him finally trained before I start school in late Aug. The crate idea is sounding like a good idea but that means I have to put up with his constant barking and crying again!!!!!!!urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

I love my dog but this poty training is reaaaaaalllllllly getting to me!!!!!!!!!

I hope the person using the choke collar wasn't calling themselves a positive reinforcement trainer.

Crates aren't so bad. Loki loves his crate and Sammy screams, but her screaming is getting better...

[Maria19]

Originally Posted by Erin

I hope the person using the choke collar wasn't calling themselves a positive reinforcement trainer.

Crates aren't so bad. Loki loves his crate and Sammy screams, but her screaming is getting better...

Erin,
Actually she was, but she was very gentle with him during and after and easy to talk to as well.

By the way your furkids are adorable!!!!!

Will keep you posted as to what I decide.

Maria

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Maria19

I've tried the Heel method with praise but that isn't working for us since he still pulls and all he wants is sniff and explore and to meet other dogs but at the same time he is selective on who he wants to meet and who he doesn't want to get along with. Is this normal?

Totally normal. In fact, training w/ multiple dogs is key bc then the DO learn how to not lunge etc - so I think it's odd someone immediately suggested private lessons. I did my training with Wylie at our Humane Ass'n and it was EXCELLENT! Do you know if your local humane ass'n has that service? I think it was $70-80 for 6-8 weeks or so and they were wonderful. They used clickers, praise and treats.

[Maria19]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Totally normal. In fact, training w/ multiple dogs is key bc then the DO learn how to not lunge etc - so I think it's odd someone immediately suggested private lessons. I did my training with Wylie at our Humane Ass'n and it was EXCELLENT! Do you know if your local humane ass'n has that service? I think it was $70-80 for 6-8 weeks or so and they were wonderful. They used clickers, praise and treats.

I will check into it. My problem is some clases happen to be on the weekend and unfortunately Im not available Saturdays or Friday evenings. REal Bummer.

Nene' also goes berserk when he hears my neighbors' french bulldog and english bulldog come down the stairs when he is my house, but when he finally meetsup with them in the street he acts so innocent and wants nothing to do with them?! Duh!. He also didn't like a male yorkie he met the other day, but he sure likes those lady yorkies. Go figure.

Just this very morning he did his pee-pee on the paper but not #2 he did it on the side of the newspaper which I don't understand because lately he had been doing it on the paper and outside as well?!

Well I don't know if at this point those Pee Pad with the Simple Solution that the other ladies are talking about is going to work. I hate buying products and them not working or even returning them since I dont have a car to go back and forth and that would be wasting gasoline in these days.

So I will get to you guys when I finally make a decision and the results of the training.

By the way I was thinking of going to S.Carolina near Aiken/Charlestone or Myrtle Beach any advice on where to stay w/ or w/o Nene' and places to see or do would be very helpful. You may email me privately if you wish.

Maria

[Ladylavender]

You can't go wrong with the clicker/treat training. It really worked for Millie. I think that is the way to go. You need to get a high quality treat though. Millie loves the clicker. Whenever I bring it out she is all about listening and finding out what I want in order for her to get her treat. The "click" is so essential to peg down the exact behavior you are looking for. Once they figure that out, it's smooth sailing from that point forward. I trained Millie to potty with the clicker. I would take her out, tell her to "go potty" and the second she squatted I "clicked" and treated. Man, after awhile I would tell her to "go potty" and she would squat right away to get her treat. At that point, I had to "click" after she actually peed and then her treat.

Once I started using the clicker as the mechanism to establish the behavior I was looking for, potty training was much easier. At least the part of what I was expecting when I brough her outside.

I also trained her with the clicker to get in and out of the crate, sit, down, stay, etc. When we were going on a trip and I bought a small bag to tuck her under the seat in the plane, I used the clicker to train her to get in it and stay in it for a short period of time. I trained her with the clicker to stay on a small rug in the kitchen so she was not under foot all the time.

I really am a big fan of the clicker!!

[Maria19]

Originally Posted by Ladylavender

You can't go wrong with the clicker/treat training. It really worked for Millie. I think that is the way to go. You need to get a high quality treat though. Millie loves the clicker. Whenever I bring it out she is all about listening and finding out what I want in order for her to get her treat. The "click" is so essential to peg down the exact behavior you are looking for. Once they figure that out, it's smooth sailing from that point forward. I trained Millie to potty with the clicker. I would take her out, tell her to "go potty" and the second she squatted I "clicked" and treated. Man, after awhile I would tell her to "go potty" and she would squat right away to get her treat. At that point, I had to "click" after she actually peed and then her treat.

Once I started using the clicker as the mechanism to establish the behavior I was looking for, potty training was much easier. At least the part of what I was expecting when I brough her outside.

I also trained her with the clicker to get in and out of the crate, sit, down, stay, etc. When we were going on a trip and I bought a small bag to tuck her under the seat in the plane, I used the clicker to train her to get in it and stay in it for a short period of time. I trained her with the clicker to stay on a small rug in the kitchen so she was not under foot all the time.

I really am a big fan of the clicker!!

Thanks sharing your clicker experience w/Millie. But what happens if you don't have your clicker around or if you lose it?

Maria

[Ladylavender]

I had 2 clickers. I had one with me at all times or very easily accessable. They come with a plastic scrunchie thing that you put around your wrist.

You will practically be wearing it all the time in the begining. Especially for potty training.

I never lost mine. They were so essential to the training thing, that I always knew where they were.

[Ladylavender]

Also, if you don't have time for classes, you can train yourself. I bought this kit and it was really easy to read and easy to get started: http://www.clickertraining.com/store/?item=clickerkits

You can essentially train yourself, you just need to make sure that you are following the method to the 'T'.

[OpheliaLoved]

As usual, I didn't have time to read all the posts, so sorry if I'm repeating.

I'm a firm believer in the clicker method. The clicker method is a form of positive reinforcement- the clicker becomes the positive reinforcer that marks the desired behavior. It is basically the same thing, only it is a more precise way to tell the dog "that is what I want!" It also makes it much easier to shape behaviors, so you can train some really cool tricks. I've been training my puppy with a clicker since I recieved him a little over three weeks ago and it is amazing what he has learned already!

For heel, try using a dowel rod (I dunno how to spell it) with peanut butter or cheez-wiz on the end of it as a guiding stick. You kinda need to train your dog to use it properly, but it is easy. He basically needs to learn to touch it with his nose, which is easy if he likes cheez-wiz! If you are using a clicker, click it every time he touches the end of it, right before he licks the cheese or peanut butter. I don't even need to put anything on the end of mine anymore unless the situation is really distracting. Once he associates the end of the stick with the click, he will start following it. Also, try using a shorter lead.

Clicker training is awesome but you have to be consistent with it, or you will notice shoddy results. As far as losing the clicker, or not having it with you, all I can say is buy several. I got mine for about 60 cents at petsmart (although I've seen some fancy ones for around $3!) and I have three for my parents' house and three for my apartment. one is in my purse. They don't take up very much space, so they aren't a bother to carry around, and believe me it is worth it!
-O