Help! Administering Sub-q fluids

[DesertChildAZ]

When my cat, Nilla, was sick (and eventually died), I administered the fluids under her skin without a problem. Well, Tahoe has had diarrhea for a few days and was throwing up and I brought him to the vet. They said he needed sub-qs for the next week and I told them I could do it myself (I had extras at home).

Well, I was just doing Tahoe's and when I pulled out the needle, he was bleeding. It wasn't alot and stopped, but does this mean I punctured something? I'm all worried about water/fluid getting in a vein. Could this hurt him or cause him to get more sick? Also, I only did about 50 cc (I'm supposed to do 100cc) and yet I don't feel any bubble of water. Maybe I'm missing it?

Please help! Nilla never bled, so this is freaking me out.

Thanks!

~ Kelly

[Tink's Mom]

I doubt if you "punctured" anything. I do them all the time on myself and sometimes they bleed sometimes they don't. It just depends on the needle angle. There isn't always a good bubble with subcutaneous inj. either. I'd go ahead and give him the rest of the med. He really should have it all. He's a good little boy to let you do those. Tink would bite my hand off.

[DesertChildAZ]

Thanks. I followed your advice and tried to finish up with the remaining 50 ccs and when I put the needle in he yelped. I can't do this.

Fortunately, yesterday his stool was solid and no vomiting. I did give him pedialyte when I couldn't do the remaining 50 ccs. I contacted the doc this morning to see what I can do about getting sub-qs for him (or if it's even necessary in light of his active drinking of water and his loss of dehydration symptoms). (On Monday, I was initially told that I had to give him subq's for a week. I was told to discontinue pedialyte.) The problem is that my vet is nearly an hour drive roundtrip and I can't take time off work (boss is a tyrant), so I have to do it before and after work for the next 5 days and, unfortunately, it wouldn't work with the vet hours. So, I asked him if he works with a vet near my home where I could take Tahoe JUST for the sub q's. He said that he doesn't and if I chose to do that, the vet near my home would require another exam (and appt fee) before willingly offering to give sub-qs. Arrgghh!!!

By the way, when I brought him in on Monday for the vomiting and diarrhea, I was told he is sufferijng from pre-renal arozemia (or something to that effect). When I said "Is that Kidney failure???), I was told "No!!! It's dehydration". So, I'm confused. I'm being told that I should continue treatment for dehydration even though he is no longer vomiting or having diarrhea BECAUSE of his pre renal condition. Yet, he's drinking water without a problem and his signs of dehydration are gone.

What, if anything, can anyone tell me about this pre-renal arozemia

[Susan123]

you probably punctured a blood vessel. I've read you're suppose to pull back the syringe to be sure you didnt get a blood vessel, if there's blood, reinject in another site.

[DesertChildAZ]

Well, I came home yesterday and Tahoe had gone to the bathroom (1/2 diarrhea 1/2 normal stool). So, I started to get really worried that he needs these fluids afterall and didn't want to wait (since he hadn't had more than 50cc in the past two days) until the morning to bring him to the vet. I took a nap (allergies here are exhausting me) and then finally sucked it up and took a stab (pun intended) at it again. And he was fine. And we got all 100ccs in him, without any kind of struggle. Halleluia!

When I repeat, should I poke him in the same spot or is it better to try a different spot each time?


~ Kelly

[Tink's Mom]

The term you're looking for is "pre-renal azotemia". I didn't pay close attention to your first post. Are you giving him water sub-Q? I don't understand that. I wouldn't think pets would be that much different than humans in renal treatment. You wouldn't give water sub-q to a person. You would give IV solution. It's been years since nursing school and I don't practice, but this just doesn't sound right to me. I'm not saying your vet is wrong, I just dont get it. Maybe because he is so little, sub q works. ?? I hope he is doing better. Let us know!

Here's a web site about his condition. Push those fluids!
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?articleid=351

[DesertChildAZ]

The ironic thing is that yesterday, when I called the vet and told him that I was getting solid stool and no vomiting, he said I could discontinue the sub-qs. ??? weird.

Anyway, I gave him the 100ccs last night and went home at lunchtime today and we got solid stools again. So, I'm going to try to give him 100ccs again tonight.

Thanks for the website, I'll check it out!

~ Kelly

[DesertChildAZ]

Originally Posted by Tink's Mom

The term you're looking for is "pre-renal azotemia". I didn't pay close attention to your first post. Are you giving him water sub-Q? I don't understand that. I wouldn't think pets would be that much different than humans in renal treatment. You wouldn't give water sub-q to a person. You would give IV solution. It's been years since nursing school and I don't practice, but this just doesn't sound right to me. I'm not saying your vet is wrong, I just dont get it. Maybe because he is so little, sub q works. ?? I hope he is doing better. Let us know!

Here's a web site about his condition. Push those fluids!
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?articleid=351

Perhaps treatment is different because this is PRE-renal as opposed to ACUTE or CHRONIC???

Also, he has no lack of appetite and he readily drinks water. (I don't have to force him.) He's not lethargic (other than his usual old age stiffness -he's 14) and his eyes shine like always. He even wags his tail and shows excitement when I talk to him or come home.

~ Kelly

[kalina82]

to answer your first question about the bleeding, no you didn't puncture anything or hit anything if you pulled up a flap of skin and inserted the needle there. Sometimes when they move alot they will bleed when you pull the needle out, or sometimes they'll just bleed no matter what. you didn't hurt him so don't worry. the poke of the needle is more of a shock and it feels strange to them to have something sitting in their skin pushing fluid into them.

I assume your giving Norm-R or lactaided ringers right? I'd give the 100ccs for the rest of the prescribed time. YOu do not want to stop every time he has solid stools because then you'll just be circling around with soft and hard stools.

oh and to see if he's really dehydrated, if you pull up on the skin and it stays there or receeds really really slowly then he's dehydrated. if the skin bounces back quickly then he should be ok. HOWEVER that's not always a sure fire way to tell.

Lastly, you shouldn't use hte same exact spot every time. If your doing the fluids in the back of the neck then you can do left side, middle, and right side. Basically you can stick the fluids anywhere there is enough of a flap of skin to stick the needle in without hitting muscle.

hope this helps you out good luck

[DesertChildAZ]

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Yes, I'm using Normasol-R. I was doing it in his back though. I'll do it in his neck tonight. The back skin is kinda tight, so it's hard to "tent". His skin bounces back quickly. I wish mine bounced back that quickly. I also noticed that when I gave him the 100cc's, he didn't seem to have a big 'ole pocket of water in him like he's had in the past when done at the vet. Maybe i'm missing it..or maybe he just has too much hair to tell....??

~ Kelly

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by DesertChildAZ

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Yes, I'm using Normasol-R. I was doing it in his back though. I'll do it in his neck tonight. The back skin is kinda tight, so it's hard to "tent". His skin bounces back quickly. I wish mine bounced back that quickly. I also noticed that when I gave him the 100cc's, he didn't seem to have a big 'ole pocket of water in him like he's had in the past when done at the vet. Maybe i'm missing it..or maybe he just has too much hair to tell....??

~ Kelly

sometimes the fluids absorbs really quickly, or it may be that your boy is dehydrated and the fluids were taken up that quickly. hard to say without seeing him.

the easiest place to do sub-q fluids is in the scruff of the neck where the mother picks the pup up. there is the most extra skin there.

[Tink's Mom]

Yay, Kalina 82! I'm glad someone who knows about doggies could help you DesertChildAZ.

[DesertChildAZ]

Many thanks to everyone! Tahoe appears to have fully recovered following some antibiotics and medication to get rid of some nasty bacteria found in his stool. He's a happy camper again!