Atrioventricular Block (3rd Degree)

[Pennysmommy]

Up until 4 weeks ago - we thought our 5 year old Yorkie Penny was in perfect health. I walked her 6 miles per day - 3 in the morning and 3 in the evening -she loved it and never ever had a problem either keeping up or with her breathing.....


Four weeks ago she started coughing for about 12 hours off and on - so being in a new city and having recently purchased a new puppy - we took her to the puppy's new vet for a check up. Imagine our surprise when we were told that our Penny had a slow heart beat - 44 BPM - (Bradycardia)-when it should have been approx. 150 BPM - Our new vet insisted that we take Penny to see the cardiologist.


Fast forward to this past Friday - we had consult with the cardiologist and after several recommended test - it was discovered that our Penny has an enlarged heart and a complete (3rd degree) Atrioventricular Block- which would require a pacemaker. In addition, there could be other issues as well. Which would require $1,000 worth of tests to determine if she would be able to make it through the surgery.


We've discovered that they believe the cough is due to how enlarged the heart is - pressing on her trachea - thus causing her cough. She I taking meds help suppress the cough - hopefully this will help.


After a lot of reading and consulting with the drs - we decided to not have the pacemaker surgery due to how risky it would be for our Penny in her advanced condition and the possibility of not surviving this surgery.


We are completely shocked and devastated by this diagnosis of Penny - never once did our Vet in Ohio prior to moving to Florida mention anything about a slow heart beat.


Thanks for reading our story - loving our Penny for what little time she may have left with us..


Pennys mommy

[Wylie's Mom]

Hi and welcome to YT. So very sorry it's under these circumstances.

What is your girl's prognosis w/out the surgery but w/ the meds then...?

I used to work for Medtronic and was a pacemaker rep -- when we had "short-dated" (soon to expire for implantation into humans) pacemakers in our personal inventory - we would then donate them to the vet hospitals for implantation into dogs as there was still YEARS of battery life left on the devices. We would also then come into the hospitals once the devices were implanted to follow-up on the devices w/ our special computers...usually every 6-12 mths for the dogs.

Pacemaker surgery is not all that complicated, except for placing the leads correctly - which we would help the physician with during the surgery. But if your girl has a very enlarged heart...she could be at a different risk. What "testing" were they quoting $1000 for, bc that seems excessive to me...?

I'm not surprised that your previous vet didn't mention any heart issues bc 3rd degree block usually happens very suddenly.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Hi and welcome to YT. So very sorry it's under these circumstances.

What is your girl's prognosis w/out the surgery but w/ the meds then...?

I used to work for Medtronic and was a pacemaker rep -- when we had "short-dated" (soon to expire for implantation into humans) pacemakers in our personal inventory - we would then donate them to the vet hospitals for implantation into dogs as there was still YEARS of battery life left on the devices. We would also then come into the hospitals once the devices were implanted to follow-up on the devices w/ our special computers...usually every 6-12 mths for the dogs.

Pacemaker surgery is not all that complicated, except for placing the leads correctly - which we would help the physician with during the surgery. But if your girl has a very enlarged heart...she could be at a different risk. What "testing" were they quoting $1000 for, bc that seems excessive to me...?

I'm not surprised that your previous vet didn't mention any heart issues bc 3rd degree block usually happens very suddenly.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Ann a couple of years ago, and learned this from her! I worked in cardiovascular surgical intensive care unit at Methodist here, and we put in pacemakers IN HUMANS very frequently....no big deal! Then I found out my vet that I was using here in Houston, did open heart surgeries on dogs, and inserted pacemakers on dogs also, with fantastic, effective results.....

I would positively take my baby to a vet school and have her assessed....they will be all up to date on the procedure and have all the equipment necessary to do this surgery! Your baby needs to be on a couple of other meds as well....diuretic for the fluid that will build up in heart because of ineffective pump action, etc....

This is NOT a death sentence for your baby! WITH proper and adequate treatment, you can manage this event in your baby's life....please reconsider the treatment options you have available to you and your baby....I would not spend one more dime on vets that are not affiliated with a vet school....the vets you have seen now can refer you to your vet school......I do not see where you live when I am writing this....if you do not have a great vet school in your state, check out a state that is close to you.....

[Pennysmommy]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Hi and welcome to YT. So very sorry it's under these circumstances.

What is your girl's prognosis w/out the surgery but w/ the meds then...?

I used to work for Medtronic and was a pacemaker rep -- when we had "short-dated" (soon to expire for implantation into humans) pacemakers in our personal inventory - we would then donate them to the vet hospitals for implantation into dogs as there was still YEARS of battery life left on the devices. We would also then come into the hospitals once the devices were implanted to follow-up on the devices w/ our special computers...usually every 6-12 mths for the dogs.

Pacemaker surgery is not all that complicated, except for placing the leads correctly - which we would help the physician with during the surgery. But if your girl has a very enlarged heart...she could be at a different risk. What "testing" were they quoting $1000 for, bc that seems excessive to me...?

I'm not surprised that your previous vet didn't mention any heart issues bc 3rd degree block usually happens very suddenly.

The additional testing is for a full blood workup, Echo and any other tests that may be required for the surgery - the $1000 is the max (+ or - 15% in the small print) they would charge.


As far as the prognosis.... its pretty much day to day at this point, meaning her condition could result in sudden death.


The medicine she is on is Hydromet syrup for the cough (which so far hasn't helped much) and Benzepril to keep the water away from her heart and lungs.


It just breaks my heart to hear her coughing and not acting herself. How can I find out if the pacemaker could be donated?


Thanks so much

[Yorkiemom1]

I have no information about donated pacemakers.....I am no help there at all.....but I would just advise you to perhaps start a GoFundMe site.....also, you can apply to a site.....I will have to get you the name...."Prosper" or something....where you apply for a loan, and it is people that have a lot of money, review your case and they chip in an finance the loan and you make your monthly payments for the specified period of time.....I will get the details on that to you ASAP....that is what I got for this extensive dental work over I am having to have done....you get an amount that you are approved for, and they set you up on a payment plan.....it is a fantastic thing....

[Yorkiemom1]

Google "Prosper Loans"....you can read all about it....it is people that have money, lending it to people that need emergency funds, and the loaners get the interest rate on the loan instead of the bank.....

[ladyjane]

Here is another organization that helps with vet bills:

Home

[ladyjane]

I would do all I could to get the testing done. I don't think they can really give you a good idea of her prognosis without having the testing done, especially the echo.

So sorry you are dealing with this.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I would do all I could to get the testing done. I don't think they can really give you a good idea of her prognosis without having the testing done, especially the echo.

So sorry you are dealing with this.

Agree with this.....you MUST know where you are before you can map out a plan.....

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Pennysmommy

The additional testing is for a full blood workup, Echo and any other tests that may be required for the surgery - the $1000 is the max (+ or - 15% in the small print) they would charge.

As far as the prognosis.... its pretty much day to day at this point, meaning her condition could result in sudden death.

The medicine she is on is Hydromet syrup for the cough (which so far hasn't helped much) and Benzepril to keep the water away from her heart and lungs.

It just breaks my heart to hear her coughing and not acting herself. How can I find out if the pacemaker could be donated?

Thanks so much

As far as the pacemakers, they are *always* donated from the pacemaker company to the Vet hospitals...we would never charge them under any circumstances. However, that doesn't mean the Vet won't charge something for that pacemaker as there is follow-up needed for the life of that pacemaker. I would most definitely make any vet aware though that you're aware the pacemakers are donated.

It really truly is a very simple surgery in almost all cases.

If it were me, I'd most definitely do the testing as your girl could easily live a long, full life with the implant. Without the pacer, I would really be concerned the quality of this poor girls life. It's the equivalent of you having to live your life either walking around with a heartbeat of 80-120 depending upon your activity -OR- you being stuck at a constant escape rate of 30bpm...always, forever....you'd be utterly miserable and would be on the verge of passing out at pretty much every moment.

[Pennysmommy]

Thanks everyone - I will definitely look into all of the options - I just don't know at this point as her new vet said it was a "very risky" surgery for Penny.


We are located in Fort Myers. Florida and I've just sent an e-mail to Penny's cardiologist asking about donated pacemakers or if we could be referred to a vet school for the surgery.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Pennysmommy

Thanks everyone - I will definitely look into all of the options - I just don't know at this point as her new vet said it was a "very risky" surgery for Penny.


We are located in Fort Myers. Florida and I've just sent an e-mail to Penny's cardiologist asking about donated pacemakers or if we could be referred to a vet school for the surgery.

Vet schools are nice...but we must always remember you have to compare doctors, not facilities. My experience here in Texas is that the specialists I go to cost less than Texas A&M and I always know who is operating on or treating my pups. I have used both and have nothing against A&M as they have saved a few pups for me. You don't always know that with a vet school...things are often changing. Not saying they don't have great vets...they often do.

Another thing you should look into is Care Credit. It is often an interest free loan over a period of time....depends on the vet you are going to...whether or not they accept it and what terms they have arranged with the credit company. It is a great credit card for pet owners to have.

Healthcare Financing Credit Card | CareCredit

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

As far as the pacemakers, they are *always* donated from the pacemaker company to the Vet hospitals...we would never charge them under any circumstances. However, that doesn't mean the Vet won't charge something for that pacemaker as there is follow-up needed for the life of that pacemaker. I would most definitely make any vet aware though that you're aware the pacemakers are donated.

It really truly is a very simple surgery in almost all cases.

If it were me, I'd most definitely do the testing as your girl could easily live a long, full life with the implant. Without the pacer, I would really be concerned the quality of this poor girls life. It's the equivalent of you having to live your life either walking around with a heartbeat of 80-120 depending upon your activity -OR- you being stuck at a constant escape rate of 30bpm...always, forever....you'd be utterly miserable and would be on the verge of passing out at pretty much every moment.

The only concern with this one as I am reading this is that her heart is pressing on the trachea. Maybe that is why they said she is high risk? I don't know but I definitely would want the testing done so that I knew I had looked at every possibility before making a decision on whether to do the surgery or not.

[Pennysmommy]

The cardiologist I have been working with has been very good to communicated with me- I asked about donated pacemakers - and the fee for the donated/low cost pacemakers is $1900.00? She said I could always check with the Vet school to see if their price is lower.


She also suggested that we double up on the cough syrup - to see if it helps - otherwise, she is already in congestive heart failure...

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Pennysmommy

The cardiologist I have been working with has been very good to communicated with me- I asked about donated pacemakers - and the fee for the donated/low cost pacemakers is $1900.00? She said I could always check with the Vet school to see if their price is lower.


She also suggested that we double up on the cough syrup - to see if it helps - otherwise, she is already in congestive heart failure...

If she is in CHF then she needs to be seen and other meds given.