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Old 02-20-2015, 07:39 AM   #1
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Default Help MIlo is so Sick

My baby is just about 16 months (on the 25th) and was dx'd with very very enlarged liver and some bronchitis. He is on Clavamox, cough medicine for a slightly collapsed trachea and Denamarin. Took him in to ER last Thursday and he does not seem to be any better. Appears to be choking or gasping at times, then he is quiet for awhile. Started medication on Saturday (for various reasons could not start right away) and it is now Friday morning and he is still making strange gurgling sounds at times, or gasping sounds, then full fledged honking at times, but always seems to be trying to stop himself from choking or coughing. He can also be quiet for a while and then starts those strange throat noises again. What could this be? What could be going on here? The doctors want me to wait until he finishes his meds to come back and take another ultrasound, but I am terrified. I don't see any improvement in the choking coughing aspect of the findings, and I have no idea about whether his liver has shrunk at all. What could cause an infection in his liver and bronchitis? He never goes out and my house is cleaned every week. At the groomers he is in his own carry crate. He had Liver enzyme test with a slightly higher Alt? (SP)? Bile Acid test was normal, ultra sound no visible masses just very enlarged liver. Also had X-ray which also showed very enlarged liver (and at first was dx'd with enlarged heart then radiologist changed her mind and said it was probably normal for a yorkie). Does anyone have any idea about what I am dealing with here? Should I take him back before I finish his medication regeime? Please help.
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Old 02-20-2015, 08:31 AM   #2
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If he is coughing still it could be the anitbiotic they gave you is not helping him. Why do they think he has broncitis? If the liver is very large I would think it could press on the trachea and make him cough too. He should be on a prednisone to help with the swelling and that might help with cough too. I know dogs that have CT go on prednisone and cough medicine when it is acting up.
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Old 02-20-2015, 08:42 AM   #3
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If he is coughing still it could be the anitbiotic they gave you is not helping him. Why do they think he has broncitis? If the liver is very large I would think it could press on the trachea and make him cough too. He should be on a prednisone to help with the swelling and that might help with cough too. I know dogs that have CT go on prednisone and cough medicine when it is acting up.
They think he has bronchitis because they saw it on the ultrasound
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:36 AM   #4
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Not that its much consolation when your dog is going through so much, but an enlarged liver is preferable to a small liver. Many dogs get infections in their liver, commonly called hepatitis. Antibiotics generally work well, and you may want to talk to your vet about changing to a liver friendly diet. The liver is one of the few organs that can heal and regenerate over time.


I had a poodle with chronic bronchitis. One thing that really helped the coughing was to turn the shower on full blast, full hot water, and then stand in the bathroom with her and let her breathe in the steam. Bronchitis can take weeks to improve, just as with humans. If you hear any wheezing, I would go back to the vet. They may want to prescribe a steroid or an inhaler to help with the wheezing. (And yes, dogs can and do use inhalers!)


I hope your pup improves soon. Its very scary, but your pup is young and that is on his side. Sending good thoughts.


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Old 02-20-2015, 11:00 AM   #5
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[QUOTE=Scoobstersmom;4531537]Not that its much consolation when your dog is going through so much, but an enlarged liver is preferable to a small liver. Many dogs get infections in their liver, commonly called hepatitis. Antibiotics generally work well, and you may want to talk to your vet about changing to a liver friendly diet. The liver is one of the few organs that can heal and regenerate over time.


I had a poodle with chronic bronchitis. One thing that really helped the coughing was to turn the shower on full blast, full hot water, and then stand in the bathroom with her and let her breathe in the steam. Bronchitis can take weeks to improve, just as with humans. If you hear any wheezing, I would go back to the vet. They may want to prescribe a steroid or an inhaler to help with the wheezing. (And yes, dogs can and do use inhalers!)


I hope your pup improves soon. Its very scary, but your pup is young and that is on his side. Sending good thoughts.



Thanks so much for your response. I was envisioning something much more scary, so I am feeling a little less panicky. Maybe I'll wait a bit then and see if things get any better. I do not want to use steroids if at all humanly (or doggily :-)) possible, so I would go to my holistic vet who hopefully would be able to find another viable alternative. But thanks so much for your post, it has really relieved my mind and now maybe I'm thinking this is not an emergency and I can wait to go to the doctor again. One thing though, how can they possibly get hepatitis? Or bronchitis for that matter. He has the piddle place in the house, so he only does indoor potty. I am disable and cannot get out much, so he is indoors mostly in a very clean environment. The only routine outside thing is going to the groomer where he stays in his own personal crate not near other doggies. Where could these things come from?
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:40 AM   #6
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Hepatitis In Dogs And Cats


This is a pretty basic link, just to give you some beginner info. Hepatitis is inflammation of the liver. It can be caused by many things, including medications, toxins, something that might have been in your dog's food, a cleaning product etc etc etc. There is also an "infectious hepatitis" which is transmitted animal to animal, but I doubt that's the one your dog has.


My yorkie had chronic hepatitis for 14 years, caused by a medication he took for a chronic fungal infection. It waxed and waned, sometimes was more active than other times. We managed his hepatitis with a drastic diet change, supplements, occasionally antibiotics. In his later years we also added ursodial. In spite of his liver disease, he did not look or act sick and led a good quality of life as long as I was careful about his diet and making sure he got the appropriate meds and supplements.


As far as the bronchitis, I suppose it could even be airborn -germs in the air. Could have started with pollens or some type of allergic reaction. How do humans get bronchitis, colds, viruses? This is just the season. Many dogs get bronchitis. It usually sounds much worse than it is, and with appropriate care, they usually recover fine. As far as the steroids, I am not a fan of them either but sometimes they are needed. My son has asthma. I always hated giving him prednisone, but once that inflammation gets going, sometimes its the only way to get things under control.


My advice would be to watch your dog carefully for any signs that he's getting worse, keep up with the meds your vet prescribed, talk to your vet about a diet change possibly. Try standing in the bathroom with the hot shower running and let your pup breathe in the steam as it sometimes helps the wheezing and coughing a bit. If you feel that your pup is getting worse or having difficulty breathing, take him back to the vet or ER. The bronchitis just needs to run it's course and you're doing what needs to be done by letting him get plenty of rest and making sure he gets his meds. With the liver, it is not a short fix. But the denamarin works amazingly well, and a diet change will help too. Your vet will likely want to repeat the labs and possibly ultrasound or exrays in thirty days or so to see how he is doing.


Hope this helps.


Diana
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Old 02-20-2015, 01:18 PM   #7
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I cannot thank you enough for this information. When it comes to the liver and bronchitis I am clueless. I have plenty of experience with AAI,Xylitol, pneumonia, and GME, but not the liver or bronchitis, so you have been so very very helpful. I just cannot thank you enough for taking the time to post this information. Thank you Thank you Thank you

Love,

Shellie, Cassie and Milo











Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobstersmom View Post
Hepatitis In Dogs And Cats


This is a pretty basic link, just to give you some beginner info. Hepatitis is inflammation of the liver. It can be caused by many things, including medications, toxins, something that might have been in your dog's food, a cleaning product etc etc etc. There is also an "infectious hepatitis" which is transmitted animal to animal, but I doubt that's the one your dog has.


My yorkie had chronic hepatitis for 14 years, caused by a medication he took for a chronic fungal infection. It waxed and waned, sometimes was more active than other times. We managed his hepatitis with a drastic diet change, supplements, occasionally antibiotics. In his later years we also added ursodial. In spite of his liver disease, he did not look or act sick and led a good quality of life as long as I was careful about his diet and making sure he got the appropriate meds and supplements.


As far as the bronchitis, I suppose it could even be airborn -germs in the air. Could have started with pollens or some type of allergic reaction. How do humans get bronchitis, colds, viruses? This is just the season. Many dogs get bronchitis. It usually sounds much worse than it is, and with appropriate care, they usually recover fine. As far as the steroids, I am not a fan of them either but sometimes they are needed. My son has asthma. I always hated giving him prednisone, but once that inflammation gets going, sometimes its the only way to get things under control.


My advice would be to watch your dog carefully for any signs that he's getting worse, keep up with the meds your vet prescribed, talk to your vet about a diet change possibly. Try standing in the bathroom with the hot shower running and let your pup breathe in the steam as it sometimes helps the wheezing and coughing a bit. If you feel that your pup is getting worse or having difficulty breathing, take him back to the vet or ER. The bronchitis just needs to run it's course and you're doing what needs to be done by letting him get plenty of rest and making sure he gets his meds. With the liver, it is not a short fix. But the denamarin works amazingly well, and a diet change will help too. Your vet will likely want to repeat the labs and possibly ultrasound or exrays in thirty days or so to see how he is doing.


Hope this helps.


Diana
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Old 02-20-2015, 03:27 PM   #8
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I am not a vet so I wouldnt want to "prescribe", but check with your vet about Milk Thistle for babys liver. I have all mine on Milk Thistle, as preventative.....with heartworm meds, flea and tick control sprayed around my neighborhood, and even in my own front yard and along the fence line, antibiotics, etc....all these things assault the liver. I am not a vet so I wouldnt want to "prescribe", but check with your vet about Milk Thistle for babys liver. I have all mine on Milk Thistle, as preventative.....with heartworm meds, flea and tick control sprayed around my neighborhood, and even in my own front yard and along the fence line, antibiotics, etc....all these things assault the liver......
From my files:
"Milk Thistle is a well-known 'liver herb' for both people and pets. It can be used to support general liver health and detoxification, and has an overall excellent safety* profile. Pet Wellbeing offers a full-spectrum Milk Thistle, extracted from the whole seeds.

Milk Thistle can provide natural support for pets experiencing: :
Long or short term prescription drug administration
Fatty liver
Liver diseases
Cholestasis (bile obstruction from liver to small intestine)
Cancer (including liver cancer)
Diabetes (with careful monitoring of blood sugar levels)
Milk Thistle is commonly given to pets while concurrently administering prescription drugs. Examples include: treatment for Heartworm, pain medications, steroids, and a vast number of other medications that can affect the liver. The liver is the organ with a primary role in metabolizing drugs and helping the body excrete toxic substances. If your pet is being given medications, some liver support is highly recommended.

So how does it work?
Milk Thistle helps protect and strengthen liver cells, stimulate their repair and regeneration, and even promotes production of new liver cells. Milk Thistle is an excellent herb for supporting general detoxification as well as recovery after infections."
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Old 02-21-2015, 10:10 AM   #9
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praying for improvmnt. in your baby....it is so emotionally draining when our babies are not well.....is he feeling better?
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Old 02-22-2015, 08:49 PM   #10
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Shellie, I am so very sorry to hear that Milo is sick. I will keep both of you in my thoughts and prayers.
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:19 AM   #11
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How is Milo doing?
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Old 02-23-2015, 09:17 AM   #12
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Hi everyone, Hi Cindy,

Thank you all for your concern. It means a lot.

Milo is the same. There does not seem to be any change. He never really had much of any symptoms other than strange gurgling or throat noises, which continue despite the cough medicine and the Clavamox. Other than that he is cheerful and playful, he is eating and drinking well. He does want to be held more than usual, but that is all. Saturday night I was in a hit and run accident
(I was in the car when it occurred, and I was turning- so still recovering from the shock. Milo was not in the car, thank god.). We sure could use your prayers.

As an aside, after thinking about it a great deal, I think I know where his possible liver infection or hepatitis came from (if indeed he does have this) I remember when I first brought him home at almost 4 most, soon after the breeder called and told me one of the other pups had tested positive for giardia and to take him to my Vet. Milo was positive for guardia and it took a very long time to get rid of it. He was on a very very powerful medicine at the time, and I was told that medications could be a cause of an enlarged liver. I took him to have teeth extracted at 8 months and at that time the Vet told me he had higher liver values and to retest after a year. I did retest and the values were still high. Now we retested again, and the values were high again. So come to think of it, this is not a new problem, this has been going on since 8 months or even longer. Maybe he even had it when I go him, who knows? Anyway, we have to wait and see when I finish his meds and then take him back to see if the liver has gone back to a normal size and his bronchitis is improved. If no improvement they want to do a liver biopsy. Will keep you all posted.


Thanks so much for the tip about milk thistle Yorkiemom1. Great Tip. Will talk with my holistic Vet about this. I'll bet she already knows this, great to know.
Thanks so much again.
Shellie:love
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:22 AM   #13
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So sorry to hear about your accident, and hope you are ok.

Since his ALT was only slightly elevated, and bile acids were normal, it doesn't sound like he has a major liver problem. Have you thought about a second opinion, maybe get another vet to look at the ultrasound and xrays you already have? It was unusual for the radiologist to change her mind about the initial xray calling for an enlarged heart, then saying it was normal. I wonder if whoever is reading these is well experienced in small dogs, especially Yorkies.

Good luck, you have gone through so much with your other pups, I do hope Milo is just fine.
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:54 AM   #14
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Can you tape the gurgling and throat issue noises and post it so we have a better idea of what he sounds like. Or bring the tape to the vet.
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:39 AM   #15
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Can you tape the gurgling and throat issue noises and post it so we have a better idea of what he sounds like. Or bring the tape to the vet.
This is a good idea Mindy10, I'm going to try this. Thanks
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