Other's Experience w/ Congestive Heart Failure / pre-CHF...

[Wylie's Mom]

Had Wylie to the vet the other day for his regular Cushings and thyroid bloodwork and the vet heard a significant heart murmur, which is new for Wylie. She said it wasn't too uncommon for heart issues to show up at his age (10).

She did chest xrays and sent them to the radiologist. I guess there is significant enlargement of the Left atrium and the pulmonary arteries. We will start him on Enalapril.

She was kind of vague about prognosis, and I don't know what that means, if anything. He's not yet in heart failure, it's more like pre-Congestive Heart Failure. Does anyone else have experience w/ this?

[Yorkiemom1]

My little Aija was diagnosed with CHF because of a ruptured cordea tendonae when she was about 6 years old,I think. She was started on Vasotec and Lasix, she had an almost "complete recovery", in spite of that floppy valve, after 4 years. I was able to stop her Vasotec as she was "compensating" and was essentially aymptomatic....we continued the Lasix but went from daily to twice a week, and she lived until she was 16 (? 17 ?) years old. Praying for little Wylie, but I think there is plenty room for a positive outlook and outcome.

[bchgirl]

I don't have an experience with this Ann but keeping Wylie and his momma on my thoughts and prayers

[107barney]

Do you know what grade the murmur is? Barney has had a murmur and it's a grade III. His cardiologist is doing nothing at the moment. I'm planning to follow up with his neurologist (my favorite vet) about whether to recheck. We did a cardiac ultrasound three years ago. He's now 14.

[Buster Brown]

Sending prayers for Wylie and hugs to you.

[ladyjane]

I have had pups over the years with CHF who were successfully treated for CHF for lengthy periods of time. I hope that will be the case for Wylie.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

My little Aija was diagnosed with CHF because of a ruptured cordea tendonae when she was about 6 years old,I think. She was started on Vasotec and Lasix, she had an almost "complete recovery", in spite of that floppy valve, after 4 years. I was able to stop her Vasotec as she was "compensating" and was essentially aymptomatic....we continued the Lasix but went from daily to twice a week, and she lived until she was 16 (? 17 ?) years old. Praying for little Wylie, but I think there is plenty room for a positive outlook and outcome.

As I am sure you know, I lost a pup this week due to a ruptured chordae tendinae. I am very surprised that your pup did so well after what I have found out about this cardiac emergency.

My sweet little foster Tommy was drowning by the time I got him to the EC. We don't have a definitive diagnosis (because and echo must be done to diagnose) but highly suspicious of this because he never had any symptoms of cardiac issues. He had been seen by many vets including the specialists at GCVS when he had a couple of surgeries. He also had had a recent chest xray where he was found to have CT. He never had a murmur or any other symptoms of cardiac issues.

Here is a link about this for people who are not familiar. I had never experienced anything so awful in my life....he went downhill so fast and I quickly had him euthanized to stop his suffering. The vet told me that IF he could stabilize him overnight, he would not have more than a few months at best if it were in fact the chordae tendinae. This is a well seasoned emergency vet who I totally respect.

From the link:
Prognosis
Rupture of primary chorda: very poor to hopeless prognosis for survival.
Rupture of secondary or tertiary chordae: as for severe mitral endocardiosis; patients rarely survive more than 6 months.
Exercise capacity and quality of life poor in most cases.

I can only say that you were fortunate. And, I also want to say that I don't believe this is a common occurence with CHF.

https://www.vetstream.com/canis/Cont...e/dis00920.asp

[Maximo]

Sending positive and loving thoughts for sweet Wylie. Praying the med will help and that the outlook is good.

[lisaly]

My Ashley didn't have CHF, but she was diagnosed with an enlarged heart when she was close to eleven years old. She took a low dose of Enalapryl and lived toone month shy of seventeen. I have heard of great success with Vetmedin for CHF. I will keep both of you in my heart and prayers, and I ish you many more years of love and happiness with your little boy.

[Yorkiemom1]

Dr Garner from Safari Animal Hospital treated her....he has done open heart surgery on pups and he has also implanted pacemakers when needed, with much success.....she was asymptomatic until she suddenly started having respiratory distress....after all the tests, and the diagnosis, and the treatment, Aija did well for another 10 years....Dr Garner travels all over the world, lecturing about cardiac surgery and issues and then he developed the computer program used by vets everywhere....he was gone more than he was in the office and I did not like the vets that were there covering the practice, so I moved. I think he is back there now, but I am thrilled with my vet now......
Thank God for excellent outcomes! However, since Wylie's issue seems to be from a murmur and the related issues, CHF under those circumstances seem to fare pretty good.

[ladyjane]

Are you talking about Safari that sells puppies and birds? I am familiar with it but have never heard any rave reviews. The only cardiologist anyone around here refers to is at Bay Area Vets. The one at GCVS has left. The only other place is A&M;

Not saying he is not good...I just don't know and have not been referred to him and I live close by. Maybe, as you said, he is not there a lot

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Are you talking about Safari that sells puppies and birds? I am familiar with it but have never heard any rave reviews. The only cardiologist anyone around here refers to is at Bay Area Vets. The one at GCVS has left. The only other place is A&M;

Not saying he is not good...I just don't know and have not been referred to him and I live close by. Maybe, as you said, he is not there a lot

That is the place....it has been years since I have been there....when he left to travel all over the world lecturing and doing seminars, I stopped going there. They have a State of the Art operating facility, with an Intensive Care unit....each pet has a nurse that sits with that pet as it wakes from surgery.....pets are monitored closely with vital signs every 15 minutes until the animal is fully awake and standing post op. They have a vet on staff that specializes in birds, one that specializes in reptiles, and one that specializes in exotic pets.

They do have a boutique, grooming service, and boarding facility at the other end of the facility, separate from the hospital....and they do sell rescues I think. Like I said, I was very impressed with Dr Garner and his surgery facility and ICU post op care for all the patients....and then, there was his own professional achievements that I approved of! And he certainly did prove himself and his expertise with his successful treatment of Aija!
Below is his Bio:
"Dr. Garner owned and operated Safari Animal Care Centers near Houston, Texas, which he founded in 1984 with a vision to develop a model for veterinary practice in which a private practice veterinarian could practice the level of medicine taught in veterinary school. In the passing years Dr. Garner’s vision has grown into a State of the art Facility owned by Mooney Animal Hospital, LLC. The company is now located at 2402 Marina Bay Dr, League City TX.

Today, Dr. Garner is among the leaders in the veterinary industry, gaining notoriety as having developed and cultivated just such a hospital operating model; one that leverages the veterinary healthcare team to new heights. To share this operating model with the veterinary community, Dr. Garner, developed Transformation for Success ™seminars and consulting, which have enabled over 2500 seminar attendees to experience his vision of the future of veterinary medicine. Dr. Garner and his team have consulted with over 500 practices to implement the Safari business process systems.

In 1999, these Safari business processes became the basis for a cutting edge software, VetPlan ™ developed by Dr. Garner. Safari Knowledge Systems combines this novel and unique software system (VetPlan) with the Safari business process changes. Together, they add value to the veterinary practice through introducing a systematic approach to increasing veterinary staff communications about recommended medical procedures and treatments. They also increase veterinary staff engagement with customers thereby improving compliance within a clinic’s client base, increasing a clinic’s capacity to service customers, and improving the customer experience within a veterinary practice.

The VetPlan knowledge management software system is currently installed in over 300 veterinary practices worldwide. Dr. Garner has formed strategic relationships with Merial and Nestlé Purina to bring VetPlan to the US veterinary community, and with Bayer in Australia. In addition, Dr. Garner has developed an alliance with Intervet, Ltd. to market the Safari Knowledge Systems (VetPlan) in the UK, and he has just installed 14 practices in Japan with great success.

Dr. Garner is in demand worldwide as a speaker, teacher and consultant. He has been invited to speak in Australia, Norway, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Spain, Canada, Italy, Sweden and Poland. He has presented at the Pan Pacific Congress and the Japanese Executive Club. In the US he has spoken at the Western Veterinary Conference, the Central Veterinary Conference, the North American Veterinary Conference, the AAHA Annual Meeting, various state Veterinary Medical Association meetings and many veterinary schools.

Dr Garner was Chairman of the Practice Management section of the Western Veterinary Conference in 2003, 2004 and 2006. The Western Veterinary Conference is the largest veterinary conference in the world.

In 1999, Dr. Garner was the first person in the veterinary industry to make an international live Videoconference presentation – to the Hungarian Veterinary Congress. Dr. Garner has published articles in Cat Fancy, Dog Fancy, Veterinary Economics, DVM News, and Japanese Info Vet. He has appeared frequently on the national radio program, Top Vets Talk Pets.

In addition to his speaking engagements, Dr. Garner has been recognized as a member of the AAHA Standards Enhancement Task Force. He led the workgroup set up to understand the client’s impression of competency, creating a list of standards that addressed these impressions. This workgroup addressed the Standards of: Customer Service, Communications, Personal Appearance, Training, and Leadership for the veterinary profession.

In 2005, Dr. Garner served on Eli Lilly’s advisory board. Because of his recognition and standing in the industry, Dr. Garner works closely with the Executive Teams of such corporations as Merial, Heska, Hills, Purina, Eli Lilly, Bayer, Antech, and Intervet and has been a guest speaker at Merial’s Heska’s and Intervet’s National Sales Meetings.

Dr. Garner has developed and introduced many technologically advanced proprietary software and management systems to the veterinary industry, including the Patient Advisor ™ which is sold by IDEXX Laboratories.

Dr. Garner has dedicated himself to enabling transformative change in the practice of veterinary medicine. His vision is to create a veterinary profession in which “All veterinarians want their children to be veterinarians.” Dr. Garner currently leads a group of Safari Knowledge Systems Ambassadors – leading practitioners and industry influencers – whose mission is to actively promote the Safari Knowledge Systems business model to the veterinary profession globally.

Dr. Garner attended undergraduate studies at the University of Arkansas from 1976 to 1979. From there he went to Louisiana State University School of Veterinary Medicine and graduated in 1983. He received Diplomate Status from the American Board of Veterinary Practitioners Companion Animal Specialty in 1992 and re-certified in 2002. There are only a small number of veterinarians who have received this distinguished AVMA certification."

He aint tooooo shabby! I wish they would have included his work in cardiovascular surgery....I think he was the first vet to implant a pacemaker in a dog....had a huge media coverage for that...

I have to add that another reason I left that practice was because I could not get any of the vets to take call for me...as a breeder, that is vital. My current vet is on call for me if I need her, 24/7. She is going on a cruise for a week and returning on the 14th of November....I have a female that is due to deliver 14th-19th....and she assured me she would be available during the night when she returns to Houston, if I need her.....class act!

[Doodlebug]

Ann, wishing the best possible outcome for sweet Wylie. I will keep him in my prayers. It looks positive that so many pups have responded well to meds. Hugs...

[ladyjane]

Judy they sell puppies that they purchase from Heaven only knows where because they don't disclose it (I asked and the answer was vague...not a surprise given it is nothing more than a pet store. I am personally horrified that it is allowed here.) I had a neighbor once who told me she sold litters of puppies to them...of course I don't know that to be a fact. I have heard some stories over the years. BUT they don't rescue to my knowledge...it is a money making operation.
I went there one time and saw the puppies and walked out..I would never go there again for any reason whatsoever.

[MauiGirl]

Ann, I know it sounds scary to have one more thing on top of what Wylie already has to deal with. I'm sending lots of healing thoughts your way and hope that his problems can be dealt with and that he will be ok.