Possible Frontline/Liver problems connection

[pipermom]

Hello, I am new to YorkieTalk. I'm hoping maybe someone out there has had a similar experience.....In Aug 2010 my 3 yr old female Yorkie..Piper.. was diagnosed with an extrahepatic liver shunt. She was quite sick, but we were lucky enough to find an experienced surgeon in Malvern, Pa. who performed ameroid ring surgery. Piper recovered completely and by Feb 2011 she was given a clean bill of health. Ultrasound showed no other shunts either extra or intra hepatic. On 3/19/11 she went to her general Vet for 1 vaccine--Lyme--and 1 final bile acid check. That bile acid test was completely normal. On 3/23/11 I found fleas on her and in our bed! The vet told me Frontline Plus was very safe so I treated her. On 3/30/11 she had what looked like a seizure--never had one before. Her hind legs stiffened, her her tilted to the right and she looked unaware of me. This lasted about 2 min. I rushed her to the vet. By the time we got there she seemed completely normal. The vet said to watch her because dogs sometimes have seizures for no reason. I took her back the next day and she received 2 more vaccines for the year. Lepto and DHP-P. She also had bloodwork and a urinalysis because of the seizure. The bloodwork was normal but the urine had bacteria. She was put on Clavamox for 7 days. She was fine until 4/4/11 when she had 4-5 "seizures" over the next 24hrs. I then took her to The Vet Referral Center in Malvern, Pa. where she had had her surgery. They kept her in the ER for 24hrs. Again, all her blood work was normal EXCEPT now her bile acids are a little elevated. The surgeon was not really concerned but put her back on lactulose. She showed no signs of seizure activity but was quiet and looked depressed. She was examined by the ER specialist, her surgeon and the Internal Med specialist. No answer. She looked and acted fine, so I brought her home. She was fine until 4/11/11. When I got home from work at 4:00pm she was shaking uncontrollably. I called her surgeon and her saw her within the hour. Of course she was fine by the time we got there. Her case was again reviewed by all the specialists there--no answer. I was then referred to a Neurologist who we saw 2 days later on 4/14/11. Again that specialist didn't really have an answer except to put her on Keppra to prevent any other seizure activity. He said these episodes didn't really fit the bill of seizures because they were very vague. She has not had another neurologic episode since 4/11/11 so I have not started the Keppra. On 4/18/11 (2 days ago) I went back to our General Vet for a urine recheck for the UTI--everything looked good except her urine bilirubin is 2+. this is not normal and indicates liver problems again. The surgeon is somewhat concerned but more bloodwork and urine check in 2 weeks. Piper seems fine now--but I am going crazy! Now I'm worried about liver failure. My feeling is that all these problems are stemming from the Frontline Plus back on 3/23/11. None of the doctors want to believe that! Am I crazy? I have spent almost $1000.00 so far just on this problem. I had a normal healthy dog 3 weeks ago, not she may be sick again. Does anyone out there have any experience with frontline problems. My feeling is that the Frontline plus and the vaccines have overwhelmed her system. The only other unusual symptom was that from the time of the frontline application up until about 6 days ago (about 2 weeks total) Piper seemed very stiff in her hind legs and always wanted to stretch. That has now gone away. To top things off, Piper has an inner ear infection and is now being treated with drops. That ear infection seems completely separate from these other problems. If anyone has any advice I would appreciate it! Thank You.

[Foster Mom]

A yorkie should NEVER have the lepto shot unless you live in an area where the risk of getting Lepto outweigh the risk of the shot.

I sure hope you get an answer soon. Prayers coming your way

[AlicetheYorkie]

I'm not a vet (worked as a tech but definatly not the same thing) so i don't want to be presumtuos here, but as far as I know I don't think it's possible for the frontline to be the cause because it doesn't work systemically (it's not processed by the liver at all). After applied, the product works it's way across the dog on the top of the skin and settles into the base of the hair folicles and stays there. There's nothing in it that would end up internal if applied properly. What you can do is call the manufacturer and have them explain this to you better, it's Merial. It's probably just a cooincidence in the time frame.

Liver shunts are common in Yorkies so there doesn't necessarily have to be a cause. The seizures can definatly be caused by the liver problem though, I know that for a fact.

Sounds like you're seeing some very good vets and doing everything possible for your baby. (although I do question their giving the Lepto vaccine, especially on the same day as another vaccine and to a small dog, but that's a big debate)

[RONLYNN]

This is very interesting. My Teddi had a liver shunt and had surgery at UT almost 4 years ago. They told me that Frontline is completely safe for our dogs but Teddi had something like you are describing last year for a few months where one side of her would go stiff. We never could figure out what was going on and she hasn't had an episode in months. I also have not given her Frontline in months....I'm wondeing if there is some kind of correlation????

[pipermom]

Thank you all for your quick replies. I have never heard one thing about holding back on the lepto vaccine. That is something I'll look into. Ronlynn--Well your answer is very interesting. Did Teddy ever have any blood work at that time? And yes, Piper's episodes were more of a body stiffening than a real seizure. Every specialist said they can't really call it epilepsy. I'll let you know how the liver tests turn out.

[tjdmom]

Not to cause controversy and I know alot of people will disagree but I believe in minimal vaccine's. I think we over vaccinate our pets and I also am very leary of the chemicals we put on our dogs. You are not the first person I've heard have problems. Of course we're always told that it isn't possible that the vaccine/mediction whatever it is could possibly be the culprit but I'm just not so sure. I hope she's ok.

[yorkieusa]

My breeder stressed not giving lepto to mine. She went so far as to write it on her puppy vaccination card. So she has never received the lepto vaccine.

I thought you might be interested in reading this:

An anaphylactic reaction is the most serious reaction to a vaccine, as it is life-threatening. These reactions are most common when killed vaccines are injected. Although the reaction is relatively rare, immediate action must be taken to save the dog's life. While anaphylactic reactions usually take place shortly after the vaccination, they can occur within 24 hours. Symptoms include sudden onset of vomiting or seizures, or the dog may simply collapse. Give epinephrine as soon as possible. Veterinarians should have it on-hand and for those who give their own shots, it can be ordered with the vaccines..

Side Effects of Leptospirosis Vaccine for Dogs | DailyPuppy.com

I'm not saying that is what happened to your yorkie. It is simply food for thought. I'm so sorry this has happened. You have taken such good care of her.

[Sandysbabies]

I am not an authority on nothing but about 4yrs. ago we put Frontline plus on my little female schnauzer. We went out to eat and by the time we got back home she was dragging her back legs, feet turned under. The vet swares up and down it was not the frontline. I think it was.

[yorkieusa]

Originally Posted by Sandysbabies

I am not an authority on nothing but about 4yrs. ago we put Frontline plus on my little female schnauzer. We went out to eat and by the time we got back home she was dragging her back legs, feet turned under. The vet swares up and down it was not the frontline. I think it was.

I have never used Frontline Plus. I have used Advantix with no problems.

Look at this. It seems others have had the same problem.

Amazon.com: Customer Discussions: Possible side effects with Frontline

[107barney]

I've used Frontline plus for 11 years without a problem, and have never heard of this connection. I'm sorry your baby is having problems and I'll keep you in my thoughts.

[Ellie May]

Any drug (including vaccines and Frontline) can cause a problem. Most or all drugs are metabolized by the liver at least to a small extent. I don't think you'll ever be able to prove it, but these things can and do cause problems occastionally. Reactions are more likely in already liver compromised dogs. Or it may have been unrelated. Something coulda just went wrong causing these changes.

How is your pup doing now?

[RONLYNN]

This is all so so interesting because Dr. Tobias said to use Frontline but now that I think about it I think Teddi's seizure-ish symptoms stopped after I stopped giving her the Frontline. I feel like it was all related to it. She was having an episode every 2 weeks for about 4 months and then once I stopped giving her the Frontline she has not had any episodes in 6 months!!

[RONLYNN]

The doctors could not figure out what was wrong with her and Dr. Tobias even called and talked to our vet here. I wonder if it was the Frontline all along.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by RONLYNN

This is all so so interesting because Dr. Tobias said to use Frontline but now that I think about it I think Teddi's seizure-ish symptoms stopped after I stopped giving her the Frontline. I feel like it was all related to it. She was having an episode every 2 weeks for about 4 months and then once I stopped giving her the Frontline she has not had any episodes in 6 months!!

Since these drugs can cause ataxia and even neuro issues in healthy dogs, IMO it is even more likely that they would in a dog whose liver isn't functioning at 100%. Drugs can make the BA go up (E's internist said the only thing we know about what makes them go up is that we don't know - lol). I was told it was theoretically possible for a distemper vaccine to do it. I don't see why flea drugs would be any different. They do process in the body to some extent because otherwise we would only see skin-type reactions.

[kjc]

I also believe in minimal vaccinations. How much does this pup weigh?

She got the Lymes , then in 10 days (4 weeks is preferred interval) she got a Lepto and DHPP. Never give a Lepto vac with any other vaccine, nor give more than one vaccine at a time! In very small dogs, all vaccines should preferably be given 4 weeks apart from each other. The vacs work better this way (able to produce more antibodies) and there's less chance of the pup developing any immune-mediated diseases.

I don't vaccinate for Lymes as it's easily treated with antibiotics. I don't vaccinate for Lepto, Dental dx or Flu, or Giardia. These vacs are too new to the marketplace to be considered safe. Only if I lived in an area where Lepto was prevalent would I consider doing the Lepto vac.

Not A Vet...