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Old 01-28-2011, 07:48 AM   #1
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Default Prednizone for liver disease?

My (4 yr old) baby was diagnosed with a liver shunt last year and has been doing very well on K/D (my vet prefers K/D over L/D for her) and Marin. He tested her liver enzymes level yesterday and while he was happy that they were so low, he felt they were still a bit over where the numbers should be. He wants to put her on a very low dose daily regimen of Prednizone - my question is, has anyone put their liver dog on Prednizone for liver disease, and if so, has the Prednizone helped? My main problem with putting her on this is because I know it increases their thirst (which makes her potty problems worse) and I've just now gotten her on a great potty schedule. It took forever to get her house-trained. Any Prednizone info for liver disease would be helpful!!
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Old 01-28-2011, 01:41 PM   #2
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Sorry, need more info... What tests were done to confirm her LS? Did he do a BAT and what were the results? Did he say why he wanted to put her on prednisone? Is she on any other medications like Lactulose? Does she have frequent UTIs?
Has she had any symptoms of LS?
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:30 AM   #3
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Sorry, need more info... What tests were done to confirm her LS? Did he do a BAT and what were the results? Did he say why he wanted to put her on prednisone? Is she on any other medications like Lactulose? Does she have frequent UTIs?
Has she had any symptoms of LS?
Her liver shunt was found upon biopsy and was stated to be a "congenital portosystemic shunt" - No to BAT's; her AST is current 107 (it was previously 283) and her ALT is 155 (and previously 670). She had previously been on an antiobiotic treatment which brought down the numbers, but she started with the neurological symptoms from long term metronidazole. For the last six months she has been on K/D and Marin and that's it. No UTI's - she has gained weight and except for only a couple blood tinged vomits in the last few months, acts well. Since she hadn't been to our vet for 6 mo's, I opted to take her in and have the regular blood tests done. Our vet explained that while she is doing very well, his analagy was that this problem is like a smoldering fire in her liver and while we're keeping it in check, the "fire" may eventually destroy her liver. Anyway, to that end, he suggested trying 1/2 tab of Prednisone every other day and re-check in 3 months, unless, of course, she would take a down-turn.
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:57 AM   #4
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The University of Tennessee is a world renoun leader in Liver Shunt Research. There are pages on their site full of info about LS...

I am confused at this point.... the best thing I would tell you to do is to get a second opinion... and to do some research... this is from:

Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

Can a shunt be diagnosed with a liver biopsy?
In animals with shunts, the liver is smaller than normal because it is atrophied from poor blood flow. On a liver biopsy, the tissues appear shrunken. Some of the vessels are very tiny, while others multiply in an attempt to improve the blood supply and drainage. These changes are called hepatic microvascular dysplasia. Hepatic microvascular dysplasia (HMD or MVD) can also occur in dogs without liver shunts; therefore, other tests are needed to be determine if a shunt is also present.


Concerning the elevated AST and ALT: These values can also increase due to toxins (general term) and by that I mean anything from the dog ingesting mushrooms to getting too many vaccines at one time... and everything inbetween.

I have never seen prednisone prescribed for Liver Shunt.

Why was your dog on long term metronidazole? and for how long?

You say she 'acts well'... is she 100% or is she still having neuro symptoms? Exactly what symptoms was she showing?

More history: When was she last vaccinated, what vaccines did she get, has she ever had any reactions to vaccines?

Best next thing to do for her would be a Bile Acid Test.

I am not convinced she has a liver shunt.... and I wouldn't give the pred until sure of what is going on with her.

I am not a vet.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:01 PM   #5
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sending prayers your way.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:51 PM   #6
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The University of Tennessee is a world renoun leader in Liver Shunt Research. There are pages on their site full of info about LS...

I am confused at this point.... the best thing I would tell you to do is to get a second opinion... and to do some research... this is from:

Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

Can a shunt be diagnosed with a liver biopsy?
In animals with shunts, the liver is smaller than normal because it is atrophied from poor blood flow. On a liver biopsy, the tissues appear shrunken. Some of the vessels are very tiny, while others multiply in an attempt to improve the blood supply and drainage. These changes are called hepatic microvascular dysplasia. Hepatic microvascular dysplasia (HMD or MVD) can also occur in dogs without liver shunts; therefore, other tests are needed to be determine if a shunt is also present.


Concerning the elevated AST and ALT: These values can also increase due to toxins (general term) and by that I mean anything from the dog ingesting mushrooms to getting too many vaccines at one time... and everything inbetween.

I have never seen prednisone prescribed for Liver Shunt.

Why was your dog on long term metronidazole? and for how long?

You say she 'acts well'... is she 100% or is she still having neuro symptoms? Exactly what symptoms was she showing?

More history: When was she last vaccinated, what vaccines did she get, has she ever had any reactions to vaccines?

Best next thing to do for her would be a Bile Acid Test.

I am not convinced she has a liver shunt.... and I wouldn't give the pred until sure of what is going on with her.

I am not a vet.
Thanks for the info - I have been on the Tennessee website and also on the Yahoo liver shunt websites. Anyway, she was on metronidazole for 3 weeks - 1/2 tablet every day and she started walking "on air" and wobbly; luckily within a week of taking her off this antibiotic, she improved to her "normal" state - her "normal" is she's eating well, 3 times a day, virtually no vomiting; acting herself, playing, chasing her ball, weigh gain. He put her on metronidazole after her liver enzyme results came back so high. She had Rabies vaccination and and DHL shots for the first 2 years of her life; and the our vet decided not to vaccinate her again with these liver issues popping up. She has never had reactions to her vaccines. I will check with our vet for the BAT; but, I will ask again if anyone else out there on YT has had their Yorkie put on Predinisone with liver issues. Thank you for your help.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:52 PM   #7
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sending prayers your way.
Thank you - sometimes that's what it takes!
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:34 AM   #8
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Thanks for the info - I have been on the Tennessee website and also on the Yahoo liver shunt websites. Anyway, she was on metronidazole for 3 weeks - 1/2 tablet every day and she started walking "on air" and wobbly; luckily within a week of taking her off this antibiotic, she improved to her "normal" state - her "normal" is she's eating well, 3 times a day, virtually no vomiting; acting herself, playing, chasing her ball, weigh gain. He put her on metronidazole after her liver enzyme results came back so high. She had Rabies vaccination and and DHL shots for the first 2 years of her life; and the our vet decided not to vaccinate her again with these liver issues popping up. She has never had reactions to her vaccines. I will check with our vet for the BAT; but, I will ask again if anyone else out there on YT has had their Yorkie put on Predinisone with liver issues. Thank you for your help.
The 'L' Part of the DHL vaccine is Lepto, and is not recommended for use in small dogs... and can cause liver and/or kidney damage. Vaccine reactions (acute and chronic) are treated with prednisone. I will contact some members that may be able to answer your questions.
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:34 AM   #9
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sorry, duplicate post
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:00 PM   #10
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The 'L' Part of the DHL vaccine is Lepto, and is not recommended for use in small dogs... and can cause liver and/or kidney damage. Vaccine reactions (acute and chronic) are treated with prednisone. I will contact some members that may be able to answer your questions.
Thank you so much for your help - I really appreciate it!
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:55 PM   #11
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My Teddi had a liver shunt....I have no idea what Prednizone would have to do with that and I have no idea why your vet would say that K/D is better for a LS dog than L/D. Those both seem very strange to me. Have you joined the LS Yahoo group? They have a lot of answers I would ask your questions on that site. They definitely helped me and it has been 3 1/2 years since Teddi's surgery and she is doing GREAT!!
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:33 AM   #12
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My Teddi had a liver shunt....I have no idea what Prednizone would have to do with that and I have no idea why your vet would say that K/D is better for a LS dog than L/D. Those both seem very strange to me. Have you joined the LS Yahoo group? They have a lot of answers I would ask your questions on that site. They definitely helped me and it has been 3 1/2 years since Teddi's surgery and she is doing GREAT!!
Thank you. I will get back on the Yahoo sites - I am a member, but I seem to have trouble navigating their sites and find YT much easier. I will go back and check them out again.
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:50 AM   #13
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Hope you were able to get some answers.... long story short... none of what you said sounds right to me.... I would seriously find another vet or a specialist ASAP and have them follow up on her care.... JMHO.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:19 AM   #14
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K/D can indeed be prescribed for a liver shunt dog and we have used this food for Daisy in the past. She likes L/D better but is not able to tolerate the food very well. We use home cooked 99.9% of the time and L/D as a backup for emergencies only.

Lepto vaccines are given every day to small dogs including toy breeds every single day without issue. So it is incorrect to say that this vaccine is not recommended in toy dogs. It is recommended for individual dogs, large or small, who are at risk of getting the disease. I have given this vaccine to my two adult dogs in the past without incident, but discontinued the use of it based on individualized assessment of my dogs' risk.

Prednisone is used for many things in dogs, including some liver diseases.

I agree with you on the Yahoo sites and discontinued my subscription many years ago. I find that a good vet is all I need for my dog.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
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K/D can indeed be prescribed for a liver shunt dog and we have used this food for Daisy in the past. She likes L/D better but is not able to tolerate the food very well. We use home cooked 99.9% of the time and L/D as a backup for emergencies only.

Lepto vaccines are given every day to small dogs including toy breeds every single day without issue. So it is incorrect to say that this vaccine is not recommended in toy dogs. It is recommended for individual dogs, large or small, who are at risk of getting the disease. I have given this vaccine to my two adult dogs in the past without incident, but discontinued the use of it based on individualized assessment of my dogs' risk.

Prednisone is used for many things in dogs, including some liver diseases.

I agree with you on the Yahoo sites and discontinued my subscription many years ago. I find that a good vet is all I need for my dog.


Risk must be determined before deciding for or against Lepto vaccines. I would suggest discussing it with a vet.

I also agree that a good vet is needed ... I find far too many people on the internet who are unqualified to do so, attempting to diagnose. A good vet would never do that on the internet....there must be a combination of things...with a physical exam being key. I see people attempting to diagnose based on what people report as symptoms and the labs that they honestly only have limited knowledge about. There are so many variables with lab testing. Nothing is just black and white.
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