Normal pH level in urinalysis

[maggiecc]

Winnie's pH level in her urinalysis was 7. The vet's assistant said there was struvite crystals in her urine and that she needed to be put on a specail prescribed diet by Hills.

I refused to buy the food until they could tell me more but the vet's assistant said it could be from a number of things. I wanted to talk to the vet but I was refused. I am going to switch vets, especially after charging me $82 and then I don't even know why she has them or not aloud to speak to the vet!

Anyways, I have changed Winnie to eating just Taste of the Wild High Prairie, soaking it in water, and also 3 treats a day instead of 10 with plenty of water to drink.

When i go to a different vet to get an update in 3 months, I hope that they crystals are gone.

In the mean time, do you know what the normal pH level should be?

THANKS!

[107barney]

Originally Posted by maggiecc

Winnie's pH level in her urinalysis was 7. The vet's assistant said there was struvite crystals in her urine and that she needed to be put on a specail prescribed diet by Hills.

I refused to buy the food until they could tell me more but the vet's assistant said it could be from a number of things. I wanted to talk to the vet but I was refused. I am going to switch vets, especially after charging me $82 and then I don't even know why she has them or not aloud to speak to the vet!

Anyways, I have changed Winnie to eating just Taste of the Wild High Prairie, soaking it in water, and also 3 treats a day instead of 10 with plenty of water to drink.

When i go to a different vet to get an update in 3 months, I hope that they crystals are gone.

In the mean time, do you know what the normal pH level should be?

THANKS!

This is outrageous and I am glad you are switching vets. You should be able to speak to the vet to have all of your questions answered! How ARROGANT!! There is no excuse for this, and it is not professionally responsible for a vet to decline to answer your questions regarding a treatment plan. I am dealing with a specialist with one of my dogs who has time to email me from a blackberry on a weekend to answer my questions so some corner joker certainly could answer your questions. Shame on that vet and his staff that is no better. Move on, do not look back, run from this office!

NOW ON TO YOUR DOG -- I am not a vet but I really want to caution you with your plan. You need to take Winnie to a new vet now, or buy the diet. The plan you are feeding her will not dissolve the crystals. You need to dissolve the struvite crystals or she will have stones. Stones will get bigger and need to be surgically removed. You will end up paying for cultures, ultrasounds, surgery and the dog will suffer.

I have given you my vet nutritionist's name via PM. You can go that route and contact her and she will put the dog on a nutrition plan to dissolve the crystals. But, either way, you are still going to need to have a regular veterinarian involved in order to do urine tests and whatever else Winnie needs. The diet you are doing will not dissolve the crystals. Please heed this warning.

Get Winnie's records from this vet so you have a copy.

I'm sorry you are going through this - count your blessings you found out about this as fast as you did.

[Ladymom]

Normal urine pH is between 5.5 and 7.0. How old is Winnie? Has she ever had a bile acids test? Struvite stones can be a symptom of a liver shunt so that should be ruled out.

Canine Struvite Bladder Stones

Urinalysis: Testing a Urine Sample

[maggiecc]

Originally Posted by 107barney

This is outrageous and I am glad you are switching vets. You should be able to speak to the vet to have all of your questions answered! How ARROGANT!! There is no excuse for this, and it is not professionally responsible for a vet to decline to answer your questions regarding a treatment plan. I am dealing with a specialist with one of my dogs who has time to email me from a blackberry on a weekend to answer my questions so some corner joker certainly could answer your questions. Shame on that vet and his staff that is no better. Move on, do not look back, run from this office!

NOW ON TO YOUR DOG -- I am not a vet but I really want to caution you with your plan. You need to take Winnie to a new vet now, or buy the diet. The plan you are feeding her will not dissolve the crystals. You need to dissolve the struvite crystals or she will have stones. Stones will get bigger and need to be surgically removed. You will end up paying for cultures, ultrasounds, surgery and the dog will suffer.

I have given you my vet nutritionist's name via PM. You can go that route and contact her and she will put the dog on a nutrition plan to dissolve the crystals. But, either way, you are still going to need to have a regular veterinarian involved in order to do urine tests and whatever else Winnie needs. The diet you are doing will not dissolve the crystals. Please heed this warning.

Get Winnie's records from this vet so you have a copy.

I'm sorry you are going through this - count your blessings you found out about this as fast as you did.

Thanks for your reply. I was very upset when the vet's assistant said she was "too busy and that she would be the one answering my questions".

I wanted to talk to them about using the Uro-Eze as you have. But since they were already clueless as to what they were talking about, I didnt even want to bring that into the conversation.

I was thinking about going on Royal Canin Urine Control Formula for now. not the best food but better than science diet. I've known a few dogs that have used Royal Canin and have liked it.

I will contact a new vet right away to talk this over.

Thanks again!

[maggiecc]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Normal urine pH is between 5.5 and 7.0. How old is Winnie? Has she ever had a bile acids test? Struvite stones can be a symptom of a liver shunt so that should be ruled out.

Canine Struvite Bladder Stones

Urinalysis: Testing a Urine Sample

Winnie is going on 10 months old now. She was spayed about 4 months ago and had all test run on her. If that includes a bile acids test, I am not aware.

Since her pH was 7, isn't that normal then? Why did she get the crystals? This is why i wish my vet would have talked to me! I'm guessing the crystals won't go away on their own even if I do change her diet so I will have to get a perscription diet from another vet.

[CouversMom]

I am having the same problems with my Khloe. She has struvite crystals in her urine and I finally gave in and bought the RC Urine formula. I also had her bile acid test done and am waiting on the lab to analyze her results. I guess her numbers are in a 'grey area' according to my vet, so they sent them off to a lab to further analyze them.

My friend's yorkie just had the $3,500 liver shunt surgery last week, so I'm just trying to do what's best for Khloe so we can avoid surgery. If I were you, I'd have the bile acids test done to rule out liver shunt.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by maggiecc

Winnie is going on 10 months old now. She was spayed about 4 months ago and had all test run on her. If that includes a bile acids test, I am not aware.

Since her pH was 7, isn't that normal then? Why did she get the crystals? This is why i wish my vet would have talked to me! I'm guessing the crystals won't go away on their own even if I do change her diet so I will have to get a perscription diet from another vet.

I wish your vet would have talked to you too, because you are in-limbo right now, and that is not right. But, since this vet is not available and thinks he/she is too good to talk to customers directly, I'm glad you are moving on.

The main cause of struvite crystals is a urinary tract infection. However struvites can also show up in normal urine so just because Winnie's pH was normal is not the end of the story.

Bladder stones (which form from crystals) can be due to genetics and our breed is prone. The bladder if alkaline can create an ideal environment for struvite formation. The Rx diets (or the uro-eze product) change the condition of the bladder, making it acidic, so that struvites can't form.

As someone else said, dogs with liver shunts can also have stones. But, dogs without shunts can have crystals and stones too. For example, my Barney who is 10 years old has another kind of crystal right now in his urine and he does not have a liver shunt. Teddy also has had crystals in the past, and he does not have a liver shunt. Daisy has never had crystals and she does have liver shunting. So, in my experience, none of my dogs with liver shunting have crystals and my dogs without shunts do. That is why it is so important that someone look at the whole clinical picture along with the blood work when treating our babies.

I have no experience with the RC diet - I am not sure if they are struvite specific and I know that we were advised to use the Hill's S/D diet for about a month. As I have said and told you directly, I did not want to do that because our breed is prone to pancreatitis, and Teddy has a sensitive stomach, so we went with the uro-eze and it worked. He is having some testing done today, and I can let you know if the struvites returned when the bladder went back to its normal condition.

Whatever you decide should be based on good vet advice so I hope you find someone you can trust to work with on this. I too am choosy with my vets, and am on my 4th one in 10 years and she was well worth the wait.

[TresCutePiggies]

I also had a similar problem with my Rory. I'm glad you are going to find another vet. I also was hesitant to immediately switch to a prescription food, and I'm very glad my vet was willing to work with me on that. Luckily. I've been fortunate enough that increasing Rory's water intake and adding a few supplements to her food seems to have resolved the issue, though I do have her urine monitored every month or so just to make sure everything is still on track. I do know that often struvite crystals can be secondary to UTIs, but it is not always the case. Rory didn't have any sign of an infection when I brought her in initially though.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by maggiecc

Winnie is going on 10 months old now. She was spayed about 4 months ago and had all test run on her. If that includes a bile acids test, I am not aware.

Since her pH was 7, isn't that normal then? Why did she get the crystals? This is why i wish my vet would have talked to me! I'm guessing the crystals won't go away on their own even if I do change her diet so I will have to get a perscription diet from another vet.

A bile acids test is not part of the CBC done before a spay. You have to request it separately. Because Yorkies are 36 times more likely to be born with a liver shunt than all other breeds combined, all Yorkie puppies should get a bile acids test by the time they are 6 months old.

I hope you can find a new vet.

[capt_noonie]

Not trying to scare you OP, but this is what can happen from extreme neglect from uti to crystals, to stones. There were four, yes FOUR of them in Katie's bladder. Poor thing. She's all better now, but she did have to get surgery, and she had to have her system flushed out for three days before the vet could operate.

[maggiecc]

I found a new vet which I am taking Winnie to on Monday. I have heard nothing but great things and I am looking forward to it. Now i just have to get Winnie to let me have a urine sample! This could be tricky as she is trained to go outside.

I hope she didn't have a UTI before these crystals. If she did I was totally unaware and would feel terrible.

I am really excited about this new vet and am looking forward to her options to cure the crystals.

Thanks for all your support!

[107barney]

Personally I would get the sample via ultrasound guided cystocentesis in case a culture is also needed. Just paid $28 yesterday for this for my dog (plus office visit). I go to an AAHA accredited vet - these vets tend to have this technology on site. I like vets with technology.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Personally I would get the sample via ultrasound guided cystocentesis in case a culture is also needed. Just paid $28 yesterday for this for my dog (plus office visit). I go to an AAHA accredited vet - these vets tend to have this technology on site. I like vets with technology.

I agree. I suspect they will want a sterile sample so I wouldn't waste time trying to catch a sample yourself.

[maggiecc]

Just went to the new vet! It was great!

This last weekend we had to leave Winnie with my mom as we were traveling and when we came back to get her she had ended up with really bad diarrhea with blood in it. She was acting normal just that her poop was like that.

So i called up the new vet and she said give her some rice and keep a close eye on her and I could bring her in at her scheduled appointment the next day.

When I got there the staff was extra nice. We had to get a sample from Winnie for her urinalysis but she was unable to go. The vet was super nice and I explained how the last vet was very upsetting and didnt even pay attention to me.

The vet did some checking and Winnie has Colitis and is on medication for a week. Since she was unable to pee, I am going to get her first morning pee and have it checked out on Friday.

The vet felt really bad about my last vet and offered to do the urinalysis for free. Now that is a great vet!

I hope that there isn't crystals in her urine this next time around but if there is the vet knows about pancreatis and bile acids so i feel really confident that she will be willing to work something out with me that i feel comfortable about.

The office also called today to see how Winnie was doing. I'm very happy I made this switch!

Thanks everyone for the advice and help!!!

Merry Christmas!

[Ladymom]

Sounds like you found a great vet!