Snickers is sick....again. (Finally) diagnosed today, but in a lot of pain right now.

[gaijingirl]

Just a basic overall: Snickers has been chronically sick on and off since April and we had him at UT last week for two days of diagnostic testing...he had a lot done to him! (He was a little stray and he’s had a lot of problems in the 6 months he’s been with us.They were even a little confused at some of his many symptoms. A lot didn't "fit" together).

Anyway, we just got all the test results back today and what they found was MVD and also an overgrowth ofclostridium perfringins, producing enterotoxin A.

His specialist at UT is Dr. Kirk, who called today and gave recommendations to my local vet. He is to be put on metronidazole for 10 days and then tylosin for a long-term period. She is also going to formulate a special diet for him.

This is what I need help with: Starting Friday, but especially last night, (before we found out the results) he had a fairly bad episode of vomiting and diarrhea...maybe one of the worst he has had yet. (Even though he does not have a fever this time as he normally does). He’s had more successive vomiting than in the past. He was still willing to take food and water and still had periods where he was interested in playing, although he became lethargic quite easily. The diarrhea he had was also worse than usual…a lot of mucous…he had about three accidents inside. Earlier today there was one time where it was completely solid red bloody mucous. I called Dr. Kirk immediately, as that has never happened before.


He was in to see his local vet earlier and was given fluids and his antibiotics.

After we got back from the vet today he seemed to be doing a little bit better. I gave small meals with extra water mixed in and he ate and was energized. He has not vomited again yet today. The last time I gave him food was around 9:00. He ate and then I told him it was time to go outside to go potty. He started trying to go upstairs (probably to see my husband, I thought) so I went to pick him up before he could get up there and felt he was shaking a lot. I carried him outside and he went potty, but did not want to get back up the one and only step he needed to climb to the house. I took him in and since he has been prone to fevers in the past, I took his temperature and it was normal (101). My husband noticed he had a lot of pain between his shoulder blades. We called the vet after hours and he told us he believed the pain was probably in that place from where he received the fluids. He thinks the shaking was probably from stomach cramps and pain and told me to give him 2cc of pepto bismol. I had also given him 1/2 Pepcid 5 hours earlier on recommendation of an on-call UT vet, which my local vet was aware of. He had had a really noisy stomach the last couple of days, up to this morning, but oddly, the past 14 hours or so, it has not been so bad. The pepto bismol did seem to lessen the shakes somewhat, but he does still have them and is seems very weak...or at least is in such pain to where he does not want to move at all.... even to lie down is effort. He did not want to raise his head...just sort of stares at the ground...just generally does not look good. He has been lying in the same spot for an hour and hasn’t moved at all.

Does anyone know what else I can do to make him more comfortable? Or...can you advise me to make me more comfortable? lol. I'm not sure how much I should be worrying (although according to my husband that is not going to do anything).
I'm just not sure what to do, since it is late at night, I've already consulted the vet...he's been to the vet earlier...he has eaten and drank recently. Could his blood sugar be low even after just eating? My husband didn't think it was a good idea to give him any Karo syrup or anything and overload him with sugar if he had food in him.

We had possibly wondered if the Hills i/d they had given us at UT would have upset his stomach at all...both my local vet and the intern I spoke with over the weekend at UT said that was pretty unlikely...anyone ever known this to happen. Initially they told me to mix the i/d with his regular food (which is just a home-cooked, bland diet) but when he started vomiting over the weekend, the girl at UT I spoke with told me to give only small amounts of the hills i/d. It didn't help. They also gave me some Purina e/n...would it be advisable to try this? Is this too many food changes? I thought it would be, but the info from the vets made it sound like changing to or adding these prescription foods should not be a problem...of course, this was a couple days before he started vomiting like crazy.

Any thoughts, ideas are appreciated. I will call again to UT in the morning. Also, is there anyone who has had any experience with a clostridium overgrowth?

I hope this post made some sense (especially as the chronological things happening are kind of confusing). There has just been so many things going on for so long that made this dogs diagnosis difficult. Lots of treatments with temporary results and I just need some support. It's so frustrating that he is getting sick again! Just as we finally think we are getting somewhere and I'm afraid it's gonna take too long for the antibiotics to help and he will lay around sick and I will be here worrying, not knowing if I need to rush him off to the vet after hours and twice in one day or not.

I told this dog on the way to the vet earlier that he was lucky that we were the ones who ended up with him, because a lot of other people wouldn’t deal with his craziness! My husband always says, “it’s a good thing you’re cute, Snickers”. Haha.

[ladyjane]

Poor little Snickers....and poor you. That is a lot for all of you to go through. He is very lucky to have you and your husband! You are correct that many people would have given up.

Given that he has MVD in addition to the GI problems, managing him might be tricky; but I am sure you will be successful. Listen closely to your vets!

The only thing I might consider if I were in your shoes, is a board certified veterinary nutritionist.

I know it is difficult when they are ill, but it is important for them not to know that we are worried....stress just increases their illness. It is also important to find a schedule for feeding and everything else....dogs do best in environments where there is less stress and where they know what to expect.

I will pray for your little guy and look forward to updates on his progress.

[lil fu fu girl]

I am so sorry to hear that you and Snickers have been going through this.
The only thing I would add is to suggest that you speak with your vet about probiotics/enzymes. Clostridium Perfringens is normally found in the gut of both dogs and humans, however its overgrowth is what causes the production of the toxins, specifically 4 unique types. These 4 unique toxins can combine with other bacteria to produce a host of diseases. The Metronidazole/antibiotic/antiprotozoal will help to eliminate the CP however, these exact properties also eliminate the good-bacteria and natural flora that is already in the tract. To an already compromised system, this could accentuate the symptoms of pain, diarrhea, and vomiting. I would definitely talk with either your vet or a nutritionist, as ladyjane suggested, as I feel that correcting the disease(which is what the vet is doing) as well as helping the tract to heal through diet and probiotics would only increase the rate with which your Snickers would heal.
Once again, I am so sorry that you both are going through this, but I am thankful that he has such a caring devoted owner.
These unselfish qualities of devotion and love to one's pet never cease to be unrecognized and undervalued; except for here on YT. Best wishes, and please keep us updated.

[Patti]

I am sorry Snickers is still not well. Have they tested him for HGE. Cali had it and wa pooping blood, vomiting and very lethargic and in bad pain. I think the blood test they do for it is a PCV or packed cell volume. I hope you can get him feeling better soon.

[Wylie's Mom]

Oh my goodness....thank the universe this kiddo found you! It sounds like this little stray has found a great family . Poor guy...this does sound like digestive pain, and that can be miserable. Marcel had this kind of pain as a pup, post-giardia.

I wonder if the vet would be interested in giving him something to soothe his GI, like sucralfate or...? Also, was an ulcer ruled out?

I agree w/ FuFu in terms of repopulating the GI tract bc it's likely very much out of balance. If you have a PetCo near you, they carry BeneBac paste - which is a high-potency probiotic gel - and this can really help at times, esp during stress/sickness. I always pick up the size that's in the small animal/ferret area of PetCo - as I like this size better for yorkies. You get 3-4 small tubes for about $4; I keep BeneBac on hand at all times, in my ER kit - it's nice to always have around.

I so hope he feels better soon!

[BlueBelle]

I think you have gotten good advice here especially regarding probiotics.
Prayers & good wishes to all of you.
Marcy

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I agree w/ FuFu in terms of repopulating the GI tract bc it's likely very much out of balance. If you have a PetCo near you, they carry BeneBac paste - which is a high-potency probiotic gel - and this can really help at times, esp during stress/sickness. I always pick up the size that's in the small animal/ferret area of PetCo - as I like this size better for yorkies. You get 3-4 small tubes for about $4; I keep BeneBac on hand at all times, in my ER kit - it's nice to always have around.

I so hope he feels better soon!

I did not know that there was a paste/gel, thanks so much for the information.

[gaijingirl]

Thank you all for your replies earlier. After I posted last night, Snickers developed a really sudden fever and he went from a normal 101 to 104.9 in such a short time. That is probably the highest it has ever been and it was so fast, I panicked and really I literally felt sick myself. I called my vet in the middle of the night and he instructed me to give him a dose of Prednisone, which he had given me to have on hand after one of his past fevers back in April. (He has always responded) well I stayed up all night watching him and monitoring his temperature and trying to cool him off with a wet wash cloth on his belly. He was eventually back down to within normal range by about 5 or 6am.

We decided to have me take him back to UT today and so we are spending the night in Knoxville, Snickers in the hospital, where they can monitor him. My husband didn't think he could survive another night like that.

He kept trying to get away from me today when I would try to pick him up to put him in the car, or move him. He yelped when I picked him up after taking him to potty when we stopped for gas. so it was obvious he was in a lot of pain.

By the time we got to Knoxville today, he had a bit of a fever again. Dr. Kirk said when they gave him some pain meds, his fever went down right pretty quick, so it seems to be pain induced. He had another x-ray done today also and I don't think they found anything too much out of the ordinary from that. She was considering doing another ultrasound, but was going to wait and see how the x-ray came out. I she will re-evaluate his condition in the morning and if he is still doing poorly, he'll probably get that done at that time.
She had also said that she had talked to another professor there, who is there top GI guy and they had discussed some of his symptoms.
I guess for me, right now, I am not really understanding how everything fits together...I really feel the need to understand how their two diagnosis fit together and I'm a bit overwhelmed with information right now...I think they are still not sure if they have found everything yet, because they've said all his symptoms and all the chronic stuff is a bit unusual...it's like there is no cut and dry point where they can exactly say, "that is what he has, that's what's making him sick and as soon as we fix that, he'll stop getting sick".

I am just so terrified about something else like last night happening; where the fever spikes to such a dangerous point in the middle of the night so quickly. I think it made me feel very much out of control to see it happen so fast like that....not that I was in control before, but we had been able to see it coming in a different way. This was more sudden and discouraging because he had only been at the vet's a few hours prior and had seemed like he was on his way to healing then he crashed again. I really felt more hopeless last night than I had previously.

Oh, and Dr. Kirk board certified in small animal nutrition. She's the head of nutrition at UT and formulated the diet for Hills l/d. So, as far as nutrition goes, I think we got lucky and got a vet who will know my dog and will have the knowledge to help in that realm. She did mention wanting to put him on a probiotic, but was talking about waiting until after a certain point....something about his diarrhea being what it is...I can't even remember exactly the reasoning, I was just trying to get a handle on all the info. over the phone yesterday...but, I plan to ask her about that again, because I had always thought it was wise to give a probiotic with digestive problems and especially when treating with antibiotics.

I will post when I find out something more...they'll probably try to observe him at least until tomorrow afternoon, I think.

[chandracz]

How scarey!!! I will keep you guys in my prayers!

[lil fu fu girl]

Oh gosh, you poor thing. I will keep all of you in my thoughts and prayers.
Poor little Snickers, I know that he is in good hands, and that they are bound to figure this issue out.

[ladyjane]

I hope today is a better day for little Snickers.

[Roccosmommy]

So sorry to hear what Snickers (and you and DH) are going through. Sending healing prayers and giant hugs your way.

[kjc]

So sorry to hear about poor Snickers. If the pain in his neck is not from the fluids, the combo of neck pain and not wanting to do stairs and yelping when picked up could point to Chiari, AAI or even GME. Did they do a spinal tap /MRI? These tests are normally used to rule these diseases out. Oh, I see they did an x ray and may do an ultrsasound. These may show indications and others tests may be scheduled.

Any upset in the digestive tract can cause some blood in diarrhea, and vomiting. Parasites are the number one cause. When the intestines become irritated and inflamed, some of the lining may slough off. The Metronidazole will help to get this under control.

Praying that he can get diagnosed quickly and be put on the right treatment so he can get back to feeling good again real soon!

[Ladymom]

Oh, poor Snickers! I am just seeing this thread.

An overgrowth of Clostridium is a suspected cause of HGE. Lady had HGE three times in four months a couple of years ago. Very scary.

Hemorrhagic Gastroenteritis (HGE)

In Lady's case, a homecooked diet and adding probiotics was the solution. She never had HGE again. I think having a nutritionist develop a diet for Snickers is a fantastic idea.

I am glad you took him back to U of T. He is in excellent hands. Diagnosing dogs with multiple health issues can be tricky.

[Lizzie07]

Poor Snickers. It is frightening when they are sick and you don't get the answers immediately. At least you are close enough to take him to UT and it certainly sounds like he is in great hands.

And he is one lucky little dog to end up in the home that will love him enough to do everything you've done for him.

Snickers will be in my thoughts.