Liver Question- Please help!

[Marina]

Does anyone have experience with Liver Shunts or other liver disease?
Chewy had a bile acid test done...
Pre food should be under 10- Came back 58
Post food should be under 20- Came back 37

We are going for more and more testing this week but I would like to hear from anyone who has experience with this first...

The Dr said true liver shunt should be in the 200's but this could be many small shunts. They want to do a biopsy to determine.

She has been really sick the last week or so and i'm terrified of anesthesia!

Anyone have a baby with something silmilar?

[DvlshAngel985]

Do a search, and you will see tons of threads on LS.

[Marina]

I did somre searches and see a lot on shunts.. but i'm looking more for specific results.. on the numbers. I guess to me they dont seem that high that a biopsy is necessary. Maybe a change in food or medication...

[DvlshAngel985]

Sorry! I don't know anything about shunts. I was hoping my post would bump this up for you so someone who does know can see it. I hope you get the answers you're looking for.

[Marina]

Thank You!
We're going in to see the neurologist tomorrow so I was hoping to get some opinions before then. I know I'll wind up doing whatever tests they suggest but i'm curious if the results are bad enough to require a biopsy. She is soo weak.. I dont want to keep putting her through all these tests if they arent necessary.

[DvlshAngel985]

A neurologist for liver shunt? Is your baby showing other symptoms as well?

[Marina]

She fell down the stairs about a week and a half ago. She possibly had a seizure and shes acting drunk so they want to rule out neurological issues before doing the biopsy.

[DvlshAngel985]

Ah poor baby! I hope she's fine!

[kalina82]

Hi! unfortunately there are lots of people here with liver problem dogs. My dog has MVD, but she is asymptomatic. Her latest BATs were pre 8 and post 70. she shows no signs of anything being wrong. i have her on a moderate protein diet (20-25%) and am starting Denamarin soon. she is 4 years old and i've known about this since she was about 2 i think. previous BATs had higher pre values (25 and 45) and relatively similar post values (66 and 67). I have not done a biopsy of her liver but we did do an ultrasound for the heck of it (i worked at the vet hospital so we just threw a probe on her to see what was going on, at no cost to me). the ultrasound showed everything looked good but there was a little sludge in her gall bladder. what that means, i have no idea. it could have been nothing or it could be liver related.

Since your pup is showing possible neurological symptoms i'd definitely take her in to the specialist. I hope there is an internal medicine vet in the same office as the neurologist. They will most likely need to work together. And if surgery is required they should have a board certified surgeon there as well. Usually all these specialists are in the same building.

[spiritwings1202]

Sending prayers for your little one. I know how hard it is when they are sick and we don't have the answers.

[ArmaniMan]

I have two dogs with MVD... the numbers your dog is showing are highly indicative of MVD (which is the smaller shunting your vet alluded to).

How old is your dog? I recommend waiting until spay to do the biopsy, that is what I did with my dog.

What food are you currently feeding? Did your vet recommend you putting her on a low protein diet until you determine what is wrong?

[christiers]

Hi,
First allow me to say that I am sorry you are dealing with this. The fear of the unknown is intimidating. My yorkie, Coco was recently diagnosed through biopsy with having microvascular dysplasia. Her bile acid tests were done last July and came back around 25, October and results were around 22, and this April just under 70. This last test was the first time her pre test came back abnormal. Without pulling the paperwork it was under 20....16, 17? She was otherwise asymptomatic. She was taken to U Penn for a consult, all lab there was "normal", blood and urine. They did not repeat the BATs. Was told to resume normal diet, she was fine that sometimes a number is just a number is just a number. Regular diet upset her stomach, so I spoke to my vet and she was already scheduled for a few teeth extractions (puppy teeth) and we decided to do the biopsy.

The seizures and acting drunk can be symptoms of Hepatic Encephalopathy. Check this page, www.petplace.com/dogs/hepatic-encephalopathy-in-dogs/page1.aspx.
The clinical manifestations of HE can range from mild (unusual behavior) to severe (coma).


Hysteria
Unpredictable bouts of aggression
Staggering
Pacing
Compulsive circling
Pressing the head against a wall
Sudden apparent blindness
Tremors
Seizures
Coma-like state

These unusual behavior changes are often more pronounced a short time after a meal.

Also watch for:

Anorexia
Lethargy
Weight loss
Drinking a lot or urinating a lot
Nausea or hypersalivation (drooling)
Vomiting
Diarrhea

As far as being nervous about anethesia...discuss these concerns with the vet. Ask questions...will the drug be tailored toward your furbaby with suspected liver issues? What will they use to monitor your furbaby while under anethesia?

There are a few groups on yahoo that are dedicated to liver issues in furbabies.
DogLiverDisease : Dog Liver Disease
Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support : Liver Shunt & MVD/HMD Support

I am a complete novice, but I found help and advise here and the 2 previously mentioned groups. Experience is a wonderful knowledge to share. Good luck with your everything. Ask questions, be your furbaby's advocate. It has been my experience that my vet has neverminded me asking why? how? when?. If she doesn't know, she will find out for me. The 2 of you are a team and tackling issues together will warrant the best results for your furbaby. Good luck with everything!!

[Marina]

Thank You for the replies.

She is 4 yrs 2 months. Spayed as a puppy.

I'm going to look up MVD right now... I'm just trying to see if there is anything I could do to control/lower the BAT numbers.. redoing the BAT test in some time to check if this had any effect.

Tomorrow is the neurologist and Wednesday I can call in and speak to the internal specialist. It is an ER/Specialist hospital but they all have such different schedules!!!

Is the low protien food by prescription only? She has been eating natural balance for about 2 yrs. Will do some low protien food searches now too.
Thanks

[ArmaniMan]

Originally Posted by Marina

Thank You for the replies.

She is 4 yrs 2 months. Spayed as a puppy.

I'm going to look up MVD right now... I'm just trying to see if there is anything I could do to control/lower the BAT numbers.. redoing the BAT test in some time to check if this had any effect.

Tomorrow is the neurologist and Wednesday I can call in and speak to the internal specialist. It is an ER/Specialist hospital but they all have such different schedules!!!

Is the low protien food by prescription only? She has been eating natural balance for about 2 yrs. Will do some low protien food searches now too.
Thanks

There are prescription foods available but many with MVD dogs just feed a normal low protein food, for example, I feed Natural Balance Organic food, the protein level is 22% I believe.

There is a lot of differing opinions on what food is the best to feed, personally me and my vet felt that a vegetarian diet or one TOO low in protein was not right for my dogs who are very young (1 and 3). So this is why I chose the food I did, everyone has to do what they are most comfortable with. Which natural balance are you feeding? protein source is more important then protein content. For example, Duck and beef are BAD sources of protein for liver compromised dogs, I stick with chicken.

The best way to control BAT numbers is with a low protein food.

I also use hepato support a supplement that has milk thistle in it. Many use denamarin, but my dogs could not tolerate it.

I did a biopsy on my youngest when she was spayed. My oldest had already been neutered when his high BAT's were found and I chose not to biopsy him. I did not think it was worth it to put him under since it wouldnt make a difference in treatment and therefore the benefits didnt outweigh the risks for me.

Are you using a hospital in NYC?

[christiers]

Originally Posted by Marina

Thank You for the replies.

She is 4 yrs 2 months. Spayed as a puppy.

I'm going to look up MVD right now... I'm just trying to see if there is anything I could do to control/lower the BAT numbers.. redoing the BAT test in some time to check if this had any effect.

Tomorrow is the neurologist and Wednesday I can call in and speak to the internal specialist. It is an ER/Specialist hospital but they all have such different schedules!!!

Is the low protien food by prescription only? She has been eating natural balance for about 2 yrs. Will do some low protien food searches now too.
Thanks

Coco is on Royal Canin Renal (which is similar to the Hepatic LS diet, and she will switch this week when that kibble is available at my vet) and both are prescription. The liver cleansing diet is cod (or a white fish), white and sweet potatos...a diet designed by Dr. Jean Dodd. You can google liver cleansing diet for dogs by Dr. Dodd and find it. Coco is also on Denamarin which contains milk thistle and sam-E. I will also begin using Nordic Cod Liver Oil when I receive my order.