Harley has been diagnosed with LP

[HarleyHOO]

Good morning all ~ bear with me, this will be a bit long....

I have to admit I'm a bit of a wreck this morning. For the past 3 months or so, I've been hearing this cracking noise every time Harley gets up from a sitting position or moves too fast. Occasionally, I've seen her lift her right hind leg or skip a little after playing fetch or running hard. This past Saturday, while I was on vacation in New York, my husband called to let me know that while playing fetch, Harley cried out in pain and then began limping worse than he had ever seen. She continued to limp all of Saturday and most of Sunday. Being so far away was absolutely killing me! I arrived home on Monday evening and although she seemed to be herself and no longer limping, she welped loudly several times while in my lap trying to get comfortable. This killed me, so yesterday afternoon I took her into the vet to get it checked. He has diagnosed her with grade 4 LP in her right hind leg. He told me at this point, her knee cap is out of place probably 85-90% of the time and in his opinion, will require corrective surgery. He does not do these procedure as he does not feel qualified, therefore he gave me a referral to go see an orthopedic surgeon in my area and have x-rays done.

I've read several other threads on this topic and although I know its not a death sentence, I am completely out of sorts with this news. She is my baby and it pains me to know that she's hurting. My vet strongly suggested that I not wait on the surgery, but to go ahead and call the surgeon this morning for an appt. My husband and I are considering getting a second opinion although our vet is very good and trustworthy. I want to make the best decision for Harley and be educated before hand.

For any members who have been through this, or are dealing with it now, please help me come up with some important questions I should be asking the orthopedic surgeorn as right now my mind is all over the place. Any help is greatly appreciated and I know that coming to this forum will help my spirit.

FYI ~ Harley is 1 year, 2.5 months and weighs 6 lbs, 11 oz. Can anyone tell me approx. what the average charges could be? I've already decided that I will do whatever and pay whatever, but a ball park figure would be nice to know....

Thanks in advance.... prayers are needed.

[cj125]

I haven't dealt with this but I know that every time we bring the kids to the vet that this is something they check for. Grade 4 is pretty bad for your girl being so young. If you trust your vet I think you'll get your second opinion with the specialist. Aww your baby will feel so much better afterwards. I know it'll be harder on you though - it always is. I can't stand it if mine just don't feel well. Good Luck and keep us posted!

[jencar98]

I'm sorry you and Harley are going through this. I haven't yet gone through a surgery for LP even though Ruby does have it. She was diagnosed with a stage 1 and is 4 years old now. Even though I've seen her skip a couple of times, it's never involved pain.

I know Yorkiemalt has had LP surgery done, she could give you some good advice.

I would think though if Harley is experiencing pain like you mentioned it is probably time for surgery. So, if you generally trust your vet, a second opinion may not really be necessary.

[stingraylady]

Oh, I'm so sad that Harley is hurting. I know how you feel when you say it pains you to see her hurting. I don't have any help with LP but just wanted to let you know I'm sending good thoughts to you and Harley and hope you can find a surgeon you're comfortable with.

[HarleyHOO]

Thank you for responding. I too feel that the surgeon would be the necessary second opinion. I'm going to call later this morning and make an appt. To be honest, after reading on here for several months in addition to hearing and seeing what I was, in my heart I already knew it was LP. I was just hoping that it would not be severe to where surgery was needed. When I got home from the vet yesterday, as soon as I got in the house, I collapsed on the couch and cried for a good 15 minutes. My sweet little girl got up in my face and licked my tears away, then jumped down on the floor and brought me back her rope She just wanted to play.... and I know that it's affecting me more so than her. Please keep us in your prayers. I believe that God loves Harley because I know with out a doubt that He loves me, therefore what's important to me is important to Him. I'm going to try to stay positive and calm throughout all of this for her sake.

I still would appreciate some feedback as far as what questions to write down and go over with when at the surgeon. In the mean time, I'm going to start researching some more and reading on my own.

Thanks for the support.

[shodanusmc]

Our little Maxines kneecap popped one time, but went back on its own. We did see an Ortho Surgeon. This weas about 3 years ago. The Specialist said not bad enough in her case, and no major problems or pain. I believe he said the cost for the surgery would be $1800.00 for the one leg if it was to be done.

[yorkiemalt]

Good Morning! I'm so sorry to hear your Harley is uncomfortable but you are right, it's a problem that can be fixed. In a 10 month period I had to do both my maltese's knees and one on my yorkie. We are 3 years post-op this month with Chandler and I'm happy to report you would never know for one minute that he had surgery. Phoebi too! Both run, jump and play like puppies. I do supplement with Cosequin to help them out.

I'm not going to pretend to know all about lp but I'd be happy to tell you what questions I would be asking a perspective orthopaedic surgeon. Some of these I did ask myself but some I found out about along the way.

1. are you board certified? very important! you want somebody who keeps up with his education. ask what year they were last certified? I've heard of some saying yes but it turns out it was back in the 1970's. I wanted somebody who has taken the time to learn all the new procedures because let's face it...medical things change rapidly.

2. how many lp surgeries do you do in a week? I wanted somebody who did enough and who also had a high success rate. I'll never forget when I asked the receptionist that question. She hesitated and I thought oh God but came back quickly and said there were too many to count. BINGO! I live in an area where Veterinary care is very competitive and knowing he did so many was a relief to me.

3. if Harley truly is a Grade 4, what procedure do you plan to use? there are 2 versions to this surgery. in simple terms, there is one where the groove in the knee cap is just deepened and there is another (which both mine had) where the tibia is also cut and pinned to help align the knee in the future. my guess would be the 2nd version is the one he is going to suggest.

4. can you give me a basic rundown on your aftercare instructions? ask if Harley will be up and walking the next morning (with support). the knee should never, EVER be restricted by a bandage. the most important part of recovery is to get the joint moving as soon as possible after surgery. we started with 3 minutes walks (supported) 3X a day for the first few days and then slowly increased according to his directions.

I know I just threw a ton of info at you and if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

[ollyg]

My baby had the surgery on 12-5-09. He tried to jump up on the couch and did not make it and ended up tearing his acl, straining his CCL and also had a grade 3 LP. I originally went to my vet who thought he just sprained it and then went for a second opinion and got the bad news. I cried for days and felt a lot of guilt--thinking if I had only been sitting of the floor. I do have doggie steps for him, but he was so excited he just jumped up to see me. I o

I went with an orthopedic surgeon as I wanted somebody experienced in the area. Since Fredo is only 7 he did recommend surgery to repair the acl and said he would make a determination on the LP once he opened him up. If it was a grade 2, no repair, but anything higher he would do a repair since it would only put more strain on the ACL--it ended up he had a grade 3. He told me if I waited, chances were very high that he would injure his good leg while compensating for the bad which would mean 2 surgeries or lameness.

The surgery went great. Since it was an afternoon surgery he did spend the night for which I am thankful--especially since his surgeon is located in a 24 hour emergency clinic, I knew he would be monitored closely. He actually started putting weight on his leg before he was discharged.

I know this is very scary and stressful. I did not know how I would do it, especially the recovery. But it was not that bad. Fredo remained in a pack and play for about 10 weeks, and for potty breaks, I set up an x-pen in my basement. I believe the need to have limited mobility for about 8 weeks, but we had problems----like 2 feet of snow---that kept delaying our release visit.

He is fine now. I am still cautious and have not brought the steps back out and have the couch blocked so that he can not jump up. He is also on a joint supplement.

I think in the end, the surgery ended up being $2200.00 which included the x-rays and pain meds.

Hope this helps

[AddieandMiaMom]

You can do a search for board certified vets in your area at www.acvs.org. None of my babies have had to have this surgery, but Addie broke her leg and needed a surgeon to repair it. I checked the veterinarians out at this website first. I also googled their names with the word "review" to see if other people had anything to say about them.

Also ask about pain meds, if they use them. I've heard some pretty bad stuff about Rimadyl, so might want to ask about alternatives.

Prayers to you and Harley.

[ArmaniMan]

Hi There! Sorry to hear about your Harley.

I had a poodle have this surgery at just under a year and she bounced back very quick... they said the young ones usually do... She was on rest for a few weeks and then did physical therapy which is very important, best if you can find a place with water therapy... and then she got back to normal very quickly. She is almost 5 now and has had no issues since... you would never know she had this surgery, she runs, jumps, and plays normal.

I would recommend getting your baby on a good supplement as soon as possible (Cosequin or Dasuquin) to protect this knee after surgery and his other knee as well.

I think it was about 2000 dollars for everything (xrays, surgery, physical therapy, post op appointments)

I am very sorry you are dealing with this but your Harley can make it through this and still live a very normal life

Please let me know if you have any specific questions, I would be happy to answer if I can.

[AddieandMiaMom]

One other piece of advice, write all your questions down before you go! I always seem to forget some of them unless I have them written down.

[HarleyHOO]

Thanks again to everyone for the encouraging words. I've just gotten off the phone with the orthpedic specialist and she is scheduled for an appt with x-ray tomorrow at 10am. I am praying that the specialists says surgery is not needed, however, my vet is very good about crossing his t's and dotting his i's, so I believe he is true in what he says... I'm just hoping that maybe he's wrong this time.

To Yorkiemalt ~ thank you, thank you, thank you. I have taken note of the questions to ask and GREATLY appreciate you taking the time to give me a check list. My mind has been flooded with all sorts of info the last 24 hours so coming up with questions was very overwhelming for me.

Her appointment is with Affiliated Veterinary Specialists - below is the profile of Dr. Drygas. It does not say he's board certified, however, the cheif doctor at this practice is, so that eases my mind. Below is his profile :

Kevin A. Drygas, D.V.M. Surgery Resident/Staff Veterinarian

After receiving his bachelor and veterinary medicine degree from the University of Florida Dr. Drygas completed a one year internship at Alameda East Animal Hospital in Denver Colorodo where he focused on surgery, emergency medicine and radiology. Currently Dr. Drygas is in his last year of his surgical residency program. His special interests include complex orthopedic diseases, soft tissue wound reconstruction and surgical oncology. Dr. Drygas is published in the areas of canine cruciate disease and canine limb replacement and enjoys both soft tissue and orthopedic surgery.

Our Doctors have not only received a degree in veterinary medicine but also have completed four to five additional years of speciality training. This additional training includes an internship for one to two years and then a three year residency program specializing in surgery. After finishing their residency, our doctors also continue their training with multiple yearly continuing education seminars. This advanced training allows our doctors to offer their patients, owners, and family veterinarians the latest in specialized surgery.

I will keep you updated on tomorrows visit.

[HarleyHOO]

AddieandMiamom & ArmaniMan ~ thank you. I've written everything down thats been suggested.

Fortunately, I have a CareCredit card which can be used for Veterinary services so I will be able to make payments on the services. Thank God! I never looked into pet insurance but now I'm starting to reconsider.....

[Mom to Hot Rod]

so very sorry that your little Harley is going thru this. We went thru this last year with Hot Rod. He went from a grade 1 to a grade 4 in a matter of 5 months. In his case his ligament was off to the side of his leg which made it bow out. He got the point that he did not want to go for walks which he absolutely loved and loves to do. He would skip and pick his leg up but once his leg was bowed out, it was apparent something was wrong. I also had always noticed that he would run stiff legged at times too.

Our surgeron brought the ligament back into place and deepened the groove. He also told us that Hot Rod should not have issues with arithis as a result from this.

Yorkiemalt had very good suggestions for you to ask the vet I would recommend writing down your questions and answers. There is just so much emotion going on that it is a lot to hear and take in. Writing it down will alleviate any confusion. One other question that I would ask is how versed is the surgeon with small dogs.

In our case, our surgeon recommended no activity other than pottying and we were to carry him out to do so. The area that he recommended was a 3x3 area other than that, we were to confine him.

Not trying to scare you but the aftercare if very stressful. You feel more terrible that they are in pain and they have no idea of why they are going thru this. IMO, the first 2 weeks were the worst. He was not feeling very well and then he did start to feel better and wanted to start moving around. It was a good thing but at the same time, we were supposed to keep him still. Our surgeon gave the okay for water therapy after 5 weeks (for about 5 min at a time). Hot Rod wasn't too crazy about it but he did it. We have a hot tub that we turned way down.

Our surgery ran just under $2000.00 and we were able to get in litterally within a day. The fortunate thing for us, we knew of several people who had used this surgeon and he had great credentials and he has a rescue yorkie himself.

Here is the link to his thread after surgery. Read it with an open mind and just remember the end result--a better quality of life for little Harley. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...picture-b.html

Best of luck to you and do not be afraid to ask any and all questions and make sure that you understand everything. Also, ask about supplements. Hot Rod and Maggie May--just diagnosed with a low grade 2 lp) are on Dasuquin now. I can see results in Hot Rod. Maggie has never exhibited any problems from hers, we had no idea until her diagnosis last month.

Feel free to pm with any questions.

[yorkieusa]

I'm sorry that you and Harley are having to go through this. I wish only the best for sweet lil Harley.