possible shunt? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Wend · 11-02-2009, 09:41 AM

So, I had Luna bile acid tested along with a urinalysis for her crystals. The after serum was high, 35 with a norm of 25 I think. The vet is going to call the lab to verify and see if that indicates a shunt even though the dog is fine and had normal pre-food values. He also mentioned the crystals are more common in a shunt dog. He said we will probably have to have an ultrasound done to verify (the ultrasound is done by a traveling vet that spends a day in each vet office once a month). So what do you all think? Also, there is a competitor vet that has an ultrasound in his office, is it bad form to break from my reg vet that has treated her so far to seek an ultrasound from this other one? I hate to do that, but the traveling one charges twice as much and is only here one day a month. He gave her antibiotics for the urine, and I will be switching her food to Wellness and her water to distilled. Anything I am missing?

Ellie May · 11-02-2009, 09:47 AM

Thirty-five post is not all that high. It is even possible that her gallbladder contracted during the blood draw skewing the results. Were her liver enzymes good? BUN? Has your vet mentioned Protein C testing? An ultrasound couldn't hurt, especially to look at her bladder, but it would only be 60-80% accurate for shunt diagnosis and that is with a skilled sonographer. Sometimes they are considered a waste of money in this case.

Elle · 11-02-2009, 11:50 AM

IMO you should have them retake the test in a month or so. It's only slightly high. Unless the yorkie is having symptoms, I would not change the diet. If the yorkie is showing signs, change to k/d or lower protein.

I don't get the vet, they tell you all of this but not to change to k/d? Is this a puppy? I'd call the vet. Ask about her kibble. Just verify that it wasn't an oversight. Let them know she's being checked & remind them she's not on k.d at this time.
An ultra-sound is only as good as the person reading it. I would most certainly call around to get the best price if you are to get one in your area.

Just until you are believed safe, refrain from any optional meds. The dogs do not disapate them well and can be fatal. No anesthesia, benedryl etc. Some dogs with LS don't well, you know they don't wake up~~~ Avoid them and high protein foods and treats. Use cheerios or green beans for a treat. Sounds hogey, but they love it and you know it's safe for them. No sense in harming her if you do not know for sure. Is she vomiting much?

Wend · 11-02-2009, 11:58 AM

It is a puppy, so the rx diet is out. I planned on switching a while back, but wanted to screen her urine before I switched. Now that we know she has an ongoing problem I am still switching but I may go with a wet food instead of dry. She has no symptoms other than the urine problems, I wanted the bile test to screen her. I actually had to persuade the vet to run it at all, so we are both surprised that it was not 100% normal. The vet did say she that symptoms will shortly follow if she does indeed have a shunt, and that we could be catching this early. Poor baby

Elle · 11-02-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wend

So, I had Luna bile acid tested along with a urinalysis for her crystals. The after serum was high, 35 with a norm of 25 I think. The vet is going to call the lab to verify and see if that indicates a shunt even though the dog is fine and had normal pre-food values. He also mentioned the crystals are more common in a shunt dog. He said we will probably have to have an ultrasound done to verify (the ultrasound is done by a traveling vet that spends a day in each vet office once a month). So what do you all think? Also, there is a competitor vet that has an ultrasound in his office, is it bad form to break from my reg vet that has treated her so far to seek an ultrasound from this other one? I hate to do that, but the traveling one charges twice as much and is only here one day a month. He gave her antibiotics for the urine, and I will be switching her food to Wellness and her water to distilled. Anything I am missing?

Never feel bad about going to another vet for a better product or service. Even if you feel you can get the same product like flea meds for less someplace else then go there. You owe your best to your family and yourself. Why would you go there just to spend more because your friend (aka our vets) is charging more of your hard earned money?

Did that explain it? LOL It's your money. But you also may find that you don't need it. I hope she is healthy. Any mention of MVD? Why was she bile tested?

Elle · 11-02-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wend

It is a puppy, so the rx diet is out. I planned on switching a while back, but wanted to screen her urine before I switched. Now that we know she has an ongoing problem I am still switching but I may go with a wet food instead of dry. She has no symptoms other than the urine problems, I wanted the bile test to screen her. I actually had to persuade the vet to run it at all, so we are both surprised that it was not 100% normal. The vet did say she that symptoms will shortly follow if she does indeed have a shunt, and that we could be catching this early. Poor baby

Crap. I'm sorry to hear this. How old is she? Seeing them suffer is brutal. I hope she is ok. How big is she? I'd keep her on dry food as long as possible. Well the good news is that her test is just a little over normal. I think normal is up to 20. It may be 25. It could be like 15-25 for normal, depending on the dog. Dogs with LS and MVD have acids over 100. So it's really not too crazy today.

Ellie May · 11-02-2009, 12:22 PM

RX food is not out of the question for a pup. It depends on the severity of the problem and the opinion of the vet. That number could indicate MVD. It could be a shunt, but there is an extremely good chance that it isn't.

Since she has crystals, has an xray been taken to look for stones? If they are worried about ammonium urate stones though, an ultrasound would need to be done. Occasionally a dog can go years with a full blown shunt with no or almost no symptoms. So what this vet is telling you is not entirely accurate...

Wend · 11-02-2009, 01:27 PM

The stones are oxalate, and could indicate stones in the bladder. THe vet feels that at this age (5 months and 5lbs) the stones are not diet related at all and that a rx diet would not help. He is waiting to talk to the lab before he decides how to proceed (x-ray for stones or ultrasound for stones/shunt). Is MVD the one that is basically a shunt inside the liver that is inoperable? Or something else?

Thanks for all the info

it is helpful.

Ellie May · 11-02-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wend

The stones are oxalate, and could indicate stones in the bladder. THe vet feels that at this age (5 months and 5lbs) the stones are not diet related at all and that a rx diet would not help. He is waiting to talk to the lab before he decides how to proceed (x-ray for stones or ultrasound for stones/shunt). Is MVD the one that is basically a shunt inside the liver that is inoperable? Or something else?

Thanks for all the info

it is helpful.

MVD is small shunting throughout the liver. It is inoperable, but is managed with supplements and diet. Oxalate stones aren't generally connected with LS. It is more often ammonium urate. Of course that doesn't mean it can't happen though... Oxalates are also less common in the girls.

Wend · 11-02-2009, 04:46 PM

The vet called, he wants to xray her to look for stones and check the size of her liver. If it is normal sized he wants to just watch her and use the xray as a baseline. If it is larger or smaller then we will proceed with further tests. Poor baby

Wend · 11-05-2009, 02:55 PM

Got Xrays today. Good news! No stones and her liver is the right size

We are hopefully home free! I offered Wellness to my dogs, Core and puppy. Well, they all loved the Core and no one touched the puppy lol. Not sure how I am going to convince the puppies to eat the puppy food....

Thanks for all the good info and advice you guys. I was really concerned. I have never had a dog with such a rough start!

11-02-2009, 09:41 AM	#1
Wend YT Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lehi Posts: 403	possible shunt? So, I had Luna bile acid tested along with a urinalysis for her crystals. The after serum was high, 35 with a norm of 25 I think. The vet is going to call the lab to verify and see if that indicates a shunt even though the dog is fine and had normal pre-food values. He also mentioned the crystals are more common in a shunt dog. He said we will probably have to have an ultrasound done to verify (the ultrasound is done by a traveling vet that spends a day in each vet office once a month). So what do you all think? Also, there is a competitor vet that has an ultrasound in his office, is it bad form to break from my reg vet that has treated her so far to seek an ultrasound from this other one? I hate to do that, but the traveling one charges twice as much and is only here one day a month. He gave her antibiotics for the urine, and I will be switching her food to Wellness and her water to distilled. Anything I am missing? __________________ Wend

11-02-2009, 09:47 AM	#2
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Thirty-five post is not all that high. It is even possible that her gallbladder contracted during the blood draw skewing the results. Were her liver enzymes good? BUN? Has your vet mentioned Protein C testing? An ultrasound couldn't hurt, especially to look at her bladder, but it would only be 60-80% accurate for shunt diagnosis and that is with a skilled sonographer. Sometimes they are considered a waste of money in this case. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

11-02-2009, 11:58 AM	#4
Wend YT Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lehi Posts: 403	It is a puppy, so the rx diet is out. I planned on switching a while back, but wanted to screen her urine before I switched. Now that we know she has an ongoing problem I am still switching but I may go with a wet food instead of dry. She has no symptoms other than the urine problems, I wanted the bile test to screen her. I actually had to persuade the vet to run it at all, so we are both surprised that it was not 100% normal. The vet did say she that symptoms will shortly follow if she does indeed have a shunt, and that we could be catching this early. Poor baby __________________ Wend

11-02-2009, 12:22 PM	#7
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	RX food is not out of the question for a pup. It depends on the severity of the problem and the opinion of the vet. That number could indicate MVD. It could be a shunt, but there is an extremely good chance that it isn't. Since she has crystals, has an xray been taken to look for stones? If they are worried about ammonium urate stones though, an ultrasound would need to be done. Occasionally a dog can go years with a full blown shunt with no or almost no symptoms. So what this vet is telling you is not entirely accurate... __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

11-02-2009, 01:27 PM	#8
Wend YT Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lehi Posts: 403	The stones are oxalate, and could indicate stones in the bladder. THe vet feels that at this age (5 months and 5lbs) the stones are not diet related at all and that a rx diet would not help. He is waiting to talk to the lab before he decides how to proceed (x-ray for stones or ultrasound for stones/shunt). Is MVD the one that is basically a shunt inside the liver that is inoperable? Or something else? Thanks for all the info it is helpful. __________________ Wend

11-02-2009, 11:50 AM	#3
Elle YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 881	IMO you should have them retake the test in a month or so. It's only slightly high. Unless the yorkie is having symptoms, I would not change the diet. If the yorkie is showing signs, change to k/d or lower protein. I don't get the vet, they tell you all of this but not to change to k/d? Is this a puppy? I'd call the vet. Ask about her kibble. Just verify that it wasn't an oversight. Let them know she's being checked & remind them she's not on k.d at this time. An ultra-sound is only as good as the person reading it. I would most certainly call around to get the best price if you are to get one in your area. Just until you are believed safe, refrain from any optional meds. The dogs do not disapate them well and can be fatal. No anesthesia, benedryl etc. Some dogs with LS don't well, you know they don't wake up~~~ Avoid them and high protein foods and treats. Use cheerios or green beans for a treat. Sounds hogey, but they love it and you know it's safe for them. No sense in harming her if you do not know for sure. Is she vomiting much?

11-02-2009, 04:46 PM	#10
Wend YT Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lehi Posts: 403	The vet called, he wants to xray her to look for stones and check the size of her liver. If it is normal sized he wants to just watch her and use the xray as a baseline. If it is larger or smaller then we will proceed with further tests. Poor baby __________________ Wend

11-05-2009, 02:55 PM	#11
Wend YT Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lehi Posts: 403	Got Xrays today. Good news! No stones and her liver is the right size We are hopefully home free! I offered Wellness to my dogs, Core and puppy. Well, they all loved the Core and no one touched the puppy lol. Not sure how I am going to convince the puppies to eat the puppy food.... Thanks for all the good info and advice you guys. I was really concerned. I have never had a dog with such a rough start! __________________ Wend