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Old 07-27-2009, 07:36 AM   #1
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Omg Negative stool sample but pooping out worms!

We have 2 Yorkie puppies, male and female littlermates, both 14 weeks, who we have only had for a little over 3 weeks now. Both were dewormed at 8 weeks by their breeder, and then received Sentinel from our vet at 11 weeks right after we brought them home. This past weekend we noticed that our little girl had pooped out a worm (pretty sure it was a roundworm, looked like a piece of spaghetti)! In my irrational panic at seeing the worm, I chucked the whole poop in the garbage before realizing that I probably should have saved it for the vet (we then attempted to reclaim it from the garbage, but were unsuccessful). We took a stool sample to the vet on Saturday, and had several more wormy poops over the course of the weekend. The test results came in today and are negative for worm eggs, which is confusing to me. The vet told us that he won't give the pups a dewormer until he knows exactly what type of worm he is working with, and told us to bring in a worm if we find another one. Does anyone know why there would be no eggs found in the sample despite the fact that our poor little girl is pooping out adult worms?
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:43 AM   #2
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Not sure if I have your answer, however, Buddy was so very sick for
4months. I kept switching food, per vet until I finally gave up and
went to another vet. He lost almost 3lbs, he was 13lbs at the time.
Didn't have a normal stool in four months. All his stool testing also
came back negative.
In changing vet's the new one suggested worming him first since it
was the less costly of testing. Within 48 hrs of worming he had a normal
stool! I called him back and he told me there are times when a male
worm get's into the intestines and since they are males do not produce
eggs so there is nothing in the stool.
It would be unlikely that all your dog's worms are males however
but you never know.
I hope you get this worked out so your pups can be well again.
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:47 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandB View Post
We have 2 Yorkie puppies, male and female littlermates, both 14 weeks, who we have only had for a little over 3 weeks now. Both were dewormed at 8 weeks by their breeder, and then received Sentinel from our vet at 11 weeks right after we brought them home. This past weekend we noticed that our little girl had pooped out a worm (pretty sure it was a roundworm, looked like a piece of spaghetti)! In my irrational panic at seeing the worm, I chucked the whole poop in the garbage before realizing that I probably should have saved it for the vet (we then attempted to reclaim it from the garbage, but were unsuccessful). We took a stool sample to the vet on Saturday, and had several more wormy poops over the course of the weekend. The test results came in today and are negative for worm eggs, which is confusing to me. The vet told us that he won't give the pups a dewormer until he knows exactly what type of worm he is working with, and told us to bring in a worm if we find another one. Does anyone know why there would be no eggs found in the sample despite the fact that our poor little girl is pooping out adult worms?

I had the same thing happen with a new female that I brought into the house. Took samples to 2 different vets. They sent it into a lab and both came back negative. I then took in a sample with the worms and showed it to the vet, it was tape worm. My money was refunded and the correct dewormer was administered.

Tapeworm is the only worm that is unaffected by Sentinal....
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:08 AM   #4
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Thanks Mardelin...it turns out that my baby girl did have tapeworms. Took quite a fight with the vet - I eventually had to bring in just the worms themselves and show them to him to get him to diagnose. Both puppies were prescribed a dose of Drontal. Hopefully this will take care of the problem!
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:23 AM   #5
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Thanks Mardelin...it turns out that my baby girl did have tapeworms. Took quite a fight with the vet - I eventually had to bring in just the worms themselves and show them to him to get him to diagnose. Both puppies were prescribed a dose of Drontal. Hopefully this will take care of the problem!
Usually tapeworm is not transferrable, unless somehow they have got into each other's stools. But, it is always safe to treat both of them. Drontol is the recommended prescription, usually 2 doses, given at 2 week intervals.

I know I went into the vets screaming with the worms in a baggie to show them. I'd been fighting with 2 different vets for 2 weeks.....I just couldn't understand it, why they had to send the sample out to the lab, when I could see the worms myself. The original samples had the worms in them......

My vet in Texas did fecal samples for fifteen dollars. Both these vets here charged $45.00 bucks to send them to an incompetent lab......Grrrrrrrr.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:24 AM   #6
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It isn't incompetence on the part of the lab; it has to do with the life cycle of the worms. At certain points in the life cycle, the parasites may not be detected since they do not continually shed their eggs, which is what the lab checks for. Even using the most advanced equipment and high-speed centrifuges, fecal tests are only about 80% accurate, which is why a lot of veterinarians request multiple stool tests several weeks apart on puppies and kittens even after they have had one test come back negative.

Dispensing dewormer willy-nilly can end up being costly too, if you are worming for things that the dog doesn't actually have and then need to pursue additional treatment down the road when that does not work-- it's more responsible to know what you're targeting before handing out medication, especially since some parasites that are common in puppies do not respond at all to broad spectrum dewormers.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:33 AM   #7
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It isn't incompetence on the part of the lab; it has to do with the life cycle of the worms. At certain points in the life cycle, the parasites may not be detected since they do not continually shed their eggs, which is what the lab checks for. Even using the most advanced equipment and high-speed centrifuges, fecal tests are only about 80% accurate, which is why a lot of veterinarians request multiple stool tests several weeks apart on puppies and kittens even after they have had one test come back negative.

Dispensing dewormer willy-nilly can end up being costly too, if you are worming for things that the dog doesn't actually have and then need to pursue additional treatment down the road when that does not work-- it's more responsible to know what you're targeting before handing out medication, especially since some parasites that are common in puppies do not respond at all to broad spectrum dewormers.
When you take in a sample with worms (segments) in it....It is the incompetence of the lab and the vet. My vet in Texas performed his own fecal exams and could identify and prescribe as necessary on the spot. Especially if you're taking in samples over a 2 week period. I do know that one vet was very upset with the lab.....Especially when a negative result was called to me. What would have happened had a pet owner not versed and more knowledgable and would have accepted their diagnosis....

I would never administer de-worming meds unless checked by a vet.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:36 AM   #8
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When My Chachi had worms he had to have 2 fecal tests before they found them.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:50 AM   #9
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Mardelin,

Sorry if I misunderstood-- I thought you meant that you'd brought in the sample with the visible worm in it after the other samples were run. If the original samples had visible worms in them, whoever the tech was that was setting up the test should have identified it for you.

I'm guessing that your vet in Texas used in-house fecal floats. Those aren't 100% accurate either, and are usually significantly less accurate than tests run with a centrifuged sample, which is what most larger labs do.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:58 AM   #10
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Mardelin,

Sorry if I misunderstood-- I thought you meant that you'd brought in the sample with the visible worm in it after the other samples were run. If the original samples had visible worms in them, whoever the tech was that was setting up the test should have identified it for you.

I'm guessing that your vet in Texas used in-house fecal floats. Those aren't 100% accurate either, and are usually significantly less accurate than tests run with a centrifuged sample, which is what most larger labs do.
Nope, worms were visible on all samples.

Nope, my vet in Texas has a full lab, because of the problems he has with sending out samples to labs. Either way he has never misdiagnosed and does not prescribe de-wormers lightly, especially on new pups. I'd never had a case of worms with my dogs/pups, just this new female I'd brought in. I've stated before, I always just take a collective sample from a new litter as a precautionary measure. After all if one pup has parasites the others do to, as well as the mom.
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:37 AM   #11
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When you take in a sample with worms (segments) in it....It is the incompetence of the lab and the vet. My vet in Texas performed his own fecal exams and could identify and prescribe as necessary on the spot. Especially if you're taking in samples over a 2 week period. I do know that one vet was very upset with the lab.....Especially when a negative result was called to me. What would have happened had a pet owner not versed and more knowledgable and would have accepted their diagnosis....

I would never administer de-worming meds unless checked by a vet.
Just curious... Do you give your pups a dewormer as a preventative or just not at all? Or do you have the pups tested and if they are positive you treat?
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:54 AM   #12
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Just curious... Do you give your pups a dewormer as a preventative or just not at all? Or do you have the pups tested and if they are positive you treat?
I think I stated above, I don't administer de-worming meds unless warrented. I take in collective sample to have it vet checked. I've never had a case of parasites, yet. I just don't believe in putting pups through it unnecessarily. My moms are checked prior to breeding and then kept in a controlled environment throughout their pregnacy and nursing period.

My dogs are checked annually
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:12 AM   #13
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I Give PANACUR or SAFEGUARD , which is the same thing ... it is very safe, can be given to pregnant females. I was once told by a vet that if given for 9 days in a roll it gets rid of Gyardia also. We de-worm moms and puppies ... puppies get Pyrantel about 2 times... moms get Pyrantel and Panacur -c when they are nursing. Our fecal exams are negative but we still do it, and it is the recommendation of our vet. He does NOT recommend the 9 days treatment unless there is a positive for gyardia, i asked him before, But he does think it is a good idea to use it once a year on all of dogs, then when the pregnant moms deliver... about 2 weeks after the delivery... and he thinks there is no harm to use it on the puppies but we usually only do the pyrantel 2 times. If we see suspicious looking stools, on either mom or puppies we go ahead and de-worm the puppies with it for 3 days ... i do not know of any harm and we have done very good with this protocol.
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Old 07-28-2009, 05:24 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by PennysMum View Post
It isn't incompetence on the part of the lab; it has to do with the life cycle of the worms. At certain points in the life cycle, the parasites may not be detected since they do not continually shed their eggs, which is what the lab checks for. Even using the most advanced equipment and high-speed centrifuges, fecal tests are only about 80% accurate, which is why a lot of veterinarians request multiple stool tests several weeks apart on puppies and kittens even after they have had one test come back negative.

.

Excellent and correct information. Tape worms in any form but the adult worm will not show up on a fecal. Tape worms are caused by the dog eating fleas or flea eggs and can take up to 6 months to show up as adult worms. Drontal is one of the few broad spectrum wormers on the market that will kill tape worms. It is usually given in two doses, we do a month apart at my clinic.

Quote:
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I Give PANACUR or SAFEGUARD , which is the same thing ... it is very safe, can be given to pregnant females. I was once told by a vet that if given for 9 days in a roll it gets rid of Gyardia also. We de-worm moms and puppies ... puppies get Pyrantel about 2 times... moms get Pyrantel and Panacur -c when they are nursing. Our fecal exams are negative but we still do it, and it is the recommendation of our vet. He does NOT recommend the 9 days treatment unless there is a positive for gyardia, i asked him before, But he does think it is a good idea to use it once a year on all of dogs, then when the pregnant moms deliver... about 2 weeks after the delivery... and he thinks there is no harm to use it on the puppies but we usually only do the pyrantel 2 times. If we see suspicious looking stools, on either mom or puppies we go ahead and de-worm the puppies with it for 3 days ... i do not know of any harm and we have done very good with this protocol.
Panacur is great wormer and you are right about it being great for giardia. We also automatically deworm our new puppy clients with either of these two and especially if they live in a home with small children who might pick up the worm segment off the floor. However, neither will kill tapeworms. We usually question the new owners about the environment the puppies came from and if there is a concern with them being exposed to fleas then we do a dose of Dronal on first visit and another on 2nd visit. As stated above, we have never had any problems de-worming this way.

Fenbendazole (often abbreviated “FBZ”) is used in both large and small animals. In dogs, it is useful against roundworms, hookworms, and the more difficult to treat whipworms. It is effective against the Taenia species of tapeworm but not against the Common tapeworm, Dipylidium caninum. It is also effective against giardia (an intestinal protozoan which is contagious to both humans and pets) as well as several species of lungworm and even some flukes.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:49 AM   #15
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Tape worm is absolutely transferrable. When segments come out and are dropped around the house and yard the other pets step on them, clean their feet and boom(transferred).
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