hepatic Encephalopathy - YorkieTalk.com Forums

tpjane · 05-30-2009, 06:54 AM

hi I'm very new to this and not that great with computers so....
My dog Lexi was just diagnosed with Hepatic Encephalopathy and I need to know all I can about it.
we are switching her dog food to Hills LD but we have to buy a 20 lb bag. my Lexi weights only 4.4 lbs down from 5.3.
I'm so afraid of what to give her. Treats etc. any help would be greatly appricriated.
This site may have saved her life I read something on here and questoned the Vet and he ran the appriote tests and sure enough.....
help me help her
Jane

kjc · 05-30-2009, 07:22 AM

Hi. Sorry to here of this. Here are some links .... liver dx is basically treated the same regardless of the cause (generally)

Pathophysiology of Portosystemic Shunts

www.livershunt.com both sites post a recipe for homemade diet...

Main issue: feed a reduced protein diet @18% hard boiled egg and cottage cheese are more easily digested proteins, along with proteins derived from plants as oppose to meats.

Medications should include Lactulose and Demamarin, and an antibiotic to start. The U of Tenn website explains these drugs in detail. She needs to be on these drugs asap. Call your vet.

Good Luck, and please keep us updated.

Ellie May · 05-30-2009, 09:07 AM

Was just the bile acids test done?
What were the results?
What other tests are going to be done?

You don't have to use kibble.
You can use the L/D canned or Royal Canin has a kibble (LS 14) and I think it comes in 6 pounds bags.

What supplements is she on?

tpjane · 05-30-2009, 10:49 AM

Lexi was just finally diagnosed yesterday so I'm really new to all this.
She started with uncontrolled leg tremors. another time it was her whole body was limp spaghetti. the worst was drooling and totally unresponsive by the time we got her to the vet (aprox 1.5 hrs after we found her) she was comotose. he started her on an iv with antibotics and steroids. within 8 hours she was so vastly improved the vet himself was shocked. her liver enzymes was high. but her symptoms were more neuroligical. she improve after 3 days to pretty much normal. she was on an sntibotic for a week and the steroids for longer but the steroids made her wacky she couldn't stop moving around and sleep ha. so we started to wein her off them. she was due for a follow up yesterday. Our son is dating a vet's daughter and he suggested we check on encephalopathy. so our vet ran a blood amonia test. he told us normal is 0-92 her's came back 299. he put her on Lactulose last night and changed her food to Hill L/D. which we just bought today and thank god miss picky likes it. my question is about treats is there things i can make at home to give her instead of her dog bone and Pupproni which is out. I'm afraid to give her anything from the table at all. she has gone from 5.6 to 4.4 lbs she can't afford to loose any more weight.
sorry for being long winded I'm new to all this stuff

tpjane · 05-30-2009, 10:53 AM

I know her blood amonia was 299 and normal is 0-92
she has only eaten hard food she never liked soft or canned we've tried before.
the only thing she is on so far is LACTULOSE 1ML 3 times a day and Hills L/D which is a 20lb bag we will have it forever.
I need reciepts for treat that i can make at home that will be safe to give her.

Ellie May · 05-30-2009, 11:07 AM

She can have peeled apple bits, watermelon and green beans.

She should be on Denosyl and milk thistle.

What are her symptoms?

Has she been diagnosed with liver shunt or MVD?
Is the vet talking about surgery?

tpjane · 05-30-2009, 11:57 AM

this is all so new. she hasn't had any MRI's but the fact that she is 7years old he doesn't not believe it to be shunts.
What is MVD
I've heard of Milk Thistle in treatment but i don't know much about it.
her symptoms....she becomes very unsteady like she is drunk, she has had problems standing. she becomes limp like cooked spaghetti. lislessness, inability to walk or even stand. It started with her front legs shakings so bad she couldn't stand up. the local emergancy clinic thought neuro but then decided no and really after 687.oo gave us no clue. The worst was finding her with so much drool coming out of her mouth she was laying in a puddle and she was unresponsive and by the time we drove her to the vet she was comatose. she was put on anitbiotics and fluids IV and started on steroids. she improved he kept her for 3 days and she came home on the antibiotic and steroids
she's finished the antibiotic and the steroids we weened her of of because she was a nervous nellie on them she could not sit still or lay down or sleep she just paced and was so exhausted it was awful.
So asking if I've tried things is just to new. I had read something on this site yesterday which prompted the testing for this to begin with.

I really want to know how to make treats she can have. she is litter trained and she always gets something when she goes potty. she is not going to be happy not getting something. especially since we now have a 5 month old Silky to contend with who gets treats for everything he does right. she has gotten used to getting them too.
Jane

Ellie May · 05-30-2009, 12:10 PM

Older Yorkies can be diagnosed with liver shunt, so that isn't impossible.
MVD (microvascular dysplasia) is small shunting throughout the liver that that is inoperable. It can produce these symptoms.

The treat thing is hard because there are a lot of foods that she shouldn't have at all. Red meat is high in ammonium which can cause the symptoms you are seeing. Organ meat is also not a good thing. Really watermelon, apple and green beans are safer than dog treats but if you do give the dry L/D (I personally wouldn't want to...I'd get the Royal Canin kibble), you can use the Royal Canin for treats. It is very palatable.

You can do a Protein C test (blood test sent to Cornell), to try and rule out a large shunt. If all your vet is doing is giving lactulose and changin the diet, you may need to find someone else because that really is not enough.

You can homecook for her with the help of a veterinary nutritionist.

You may get away with boiling or baking some sweet potato for her (tiny pieces).

Something like Hepatosupport has milk thistle and some vitamins in it which would be a big help. If you don't want to give that you can give milk thistle for humans with vitamins b and e.

tpjane · 05-30-2009, 12:27 PM

he has sugested we take her to Cornell. But like I said we just got this news yesterday and haven't even had time to think except to start something. right now it's better than doing nothing until we decided where we will go next.
She loves Green beans and will eat them frozen right out of the freezer. is that okay or should they be heated ?

Ellie May · 05-30-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpjane

he has sugested we take her to Cornell. But like I said we just got this news yesterday and haven't even had time to think except to start something. right now it's better than doing nothing until we decided where we will go next.
She loves Green beans and will eat them frozen right out of the freezer. is that okay or should they be heated ?

That should be just fine.

I would also suggest taking her to Cornell and talking to Dr. Center.
She's the expert on this.

05-30-2009, 06:54 AM	#1
tpjane YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittston, Pa. USA Posts: 5	hepatic Encephalopathy hi I'm very new to this and not that great with computers so.... My dog Lexi was just diagnosed with Hepatic Encephalopathy and I need to know all I can about it. we are switching her dog food to Hills LD but we have to buy a 20 lb bag. my Lexi weights only 4.4 lbs down from 5.3. I'm so afraid of what to give her. Treats etc. any help would be greatly appricriated. This site may have saved her life I read something on here and questoned the Vet and he ran the appriote tests and sure enough..... help me help her Jane

05-30-2009, 07:22 AM	#2
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,866	Hi. Sorry to here of this. Here are some links .... liver dx is basically treated the same regardless of the cause (generally) Pathophysiology of Portosystemic Shunts www.livershunt.com both sites post a recipe for homemade diet... Main issue: feed a reduced protein diet @18% hard boiled egg and cottage cheese are more easily digested proteins, along with proteins derived from plants as oppose to meats. Medications should include Lactulose and Demamarin, and an antibiotic to start. The U of Tenn website explains these drugs in detail. She needs to be on these drugs asap. Call your vet. Good Luck, and please keep us updated. __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

05-30-2009, 09:07 AM	#3
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Was just the bile acids test done? What were the results? What other tests are going to be done? You don't have to use kibble. You can use the L/D canned or Royal Canin has a kibble (LS 14) and I think it comes in 6 pounds bags. What supplements is she on? __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

05-30-2009, 11:07 AM	#6
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	She can have peeled apple bits, watermelon and green beans. She should be on Denosyl and milk thistle. What are her symptoms? Has she been diagnosed with liver shunt or MVD? Is the vet talking about surgery? __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

05-30-2009, 12:10 PM	#8
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Older Yorkies can be diagnosed with liver shunt, so that isn't impossible. MVD (microvascular dysplasia) is small shunting throughout the liver that that is inoperable. It can produce these symptoms. The treat thing is hard because there are a lot of foods that she shouldn't have at all. Red meat is high in ammonium which can cause the symptoms you are seeing. Organ meat is also not a good thing. Really watermelon, apple and green beans are safer than dog treats but if you do give the dry L/D (I personally wouldn't want to...I'd get the Royal Canin kibble), you can use the Royal Canin for treats. It is very palatable. You can do a Protein C test (blood test sent to Cornell), to try and rule out a large shunt. If all your vet is doing is giving lactulose and changin the diet, you may need to find someone else because that really is not enough. You can homecook for her with the help of a veterinary nutritionist. You may get away with boiling or baking some sweet potato for her (tiny pieces). Something like Hepatosupport has milk thistle and some vitamins in it which would be a big help. If you don't want to give that you can give milk thistle for humans with vitamins b and e. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

05-30-2009, 10:49 AM	#4
tpjane YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittston, Pa. USA Posts: 5	Lexi was just finally diagnosed yesterday so I'm really new to all this. She started with uncontrolled leg tremors. another time it was her whole body was limp spaghetti. the worst was drooling and totally unresponsive by the time we got her to the vet (aprox 1.5 hrs after we found her) she was comotose. he started her on an iv with antibotics and steroids. within 8 hours she was so vastly improved the vet himself was shocked. her liver enzymes was high. but her symptoms were more neuroligical. she improve after 3 days to pretty much normal. she was on an sntibotic for a week and the steroids for longer but the steroids made her wacky she couldn't stop moving around and sleep ha. so we started to wein her off them. she was due for a follow up yesterday. Our son is dating a vet's daughter and he suggested we check on encephalopathy. so our vet ran a blood amonia test. he told us normal is 0-92 her's came back 299. he put her on Lactulose last night and changed her food to Hill L/D. which we just bought today and thank god miss picky likes it. my question is about treats is there things i can make at home to give her instead of her dog bone and Pupproni which is out. I'm afraid to give her anything from the table at all. she has gone from 5.6 to 4.4 lbs she can't afford to loose any more weight. sorry for being long winded I'm new to all this stuff

05-30-2009, 10:53 AM	#5
tpjane YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittston, Pa. USA Posts: 5	I know her blood amonia was 299 and normal is 0-92 she has only eaten hard food she never liked soft or canned we've tried before. the only thing she is on so far is LACTULOSE 1ML 3 times a day and Hills L/D which is a 20lb bag we will have it forever. I need reciepts for treat that i can make at home that will be safe to give her.

05-30-2009, 11:57 AM	#7
tpjane YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittston, Pa. USA Posts: 5	this is all so new. she hasn't had any MRI's but the fact that she is 7years old he doesn't not believe it to be shunts. What is MVD I've heard of Milk Thistle in treatment but i don't know much about it. her symptoms....she becomes very unsteady like she is drunk, she has had problems standing. she becomes limp like cooked spaghetti. lislessness, inability to walk or even stand. It started with her front legs shakings so bad she couldn't stand up. the local emergancy clinic thought neuro but then decided no and really after 687.oo gave us no clue. The worst was finding her with so much drool coming out of her mouth she was laying in a puddle and she was unresponsive and by the time we drove her to the vet she was comatose. she was put on anitbiotics and fluids IV and started on steroids. she improved he kept her for 3 days and she came home on the antibiotic and steroids she's finished the antibiotic and the steroids we weened her of of because she was a nervous nellie on them she could not sit still or lay down or sleep she just paced and was so exhausted it was awful. So asking if I've tried things is just to new. I had read something on this site yesterday which prompted the testing for this to begin with. I really want to know how to make treats she can have. she is litter trained and she always gets something when she goes potty. she is not going to be happy not getting something. especially since we now have a 5 month old Silky to contend with who gets treats for everything he does right. she has gotten used to getting them too. Jane

05-30-2009, 12:27 PM	#9
tpjane YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittston, Pa. USA Posts: 5	he has sugested we take her to Cornell. But like I said we just got this news yesterday and haven't even had time to think except to start something. right now it's better than doing nothing until we decided where we will go next. She loves Green beans and will eat them frozen right out of the freezer. is that okay or should they be heated ?