|
Welcome to the YorkieTalk.com Forums Community - the community for Yorkshire Terriers. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be able to chat with over 35,000 YorkieTalk members, read over 2,000,000 posted discussions, and view more than 15,000 Yorkie photos in the YorkieTalk Photo Gallery after you register. We would love to have you as a member! Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please click here to contact us. |
|
| LinkBack | Thread Tools |
12-23-2008, 01:13 PM | #1 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: wilmington
Posts: 6
| Liver shunt-ibs-bile acid 79-biospies all bad? My yorkie harley is only 4 years old Please help. My yorkie harley is 4 years old. I posted some past problems relating to his liver problems in the past. Now i am scared to death. To give brief update of past. Harley was a perfectly healthly yorkie until he was affected by the eukanuba recall on moist food, i think 2 years ago. Of course when the scare occured we did the blood panel and his alt was extremely high. Over months of special diet, being the prescription diet i/d, then he was switched to the l/d, we were able to get the liver back to normal even "extremely well" levels. For the last 8 months or so, he has been rushed to the emergency clinic for dehydration, constipation, diarraha, and then forwared to his vet for test and so on. We have done everything, xrays, fluids, several antibiotics, he was treated for "hge" and supposedly he was back to normal. Harley continues to have this spell about every 5-6 weeks where he goes down, not eating, dont drink water, very letharic, and stomach very noisy, and cant use the bathroom, and then i rush him to get fluids, and it has been the same thing, no real answers. Finally my vet referred me to another vet to have a colonospy and endoscopy test done and at that time, biopsies would be taken. This was done 2 weeks ago, about 4 days after that, harley went down again, we then did a bile acid test. Last thursday the results were given to me, and i am real confused. The bile acid test was abnormal it was 79 and the vet read the pathologist report to me and nothing was good. He said harley most likely had a or multiple liver shunts, based on his bile acid, and rest of the results, and that he had ibs as well, and bacteria all in him; i guess that is the laymans version, not using the big words, he wants to do an ultrasound to see if the shunts would show, and stated that if they are on the outside of the liver, it should, and then talked about surgery and opening him up and doing exploritory surgery, and omg, that the risks are extremely high, and i honestly dont know what to do. I was so scared i went straigt to my regular vet, and she was able to have the specialist fax the results and to go over them with her, and she disagrees with the liver shunts based on the fact that harley has had mostly all good alt and blood panel with the exception of when the eukanuba issue, she feels that if it was liver shunt he would be sicker more often, and that his blood panels would have been bad all along. She networked with an internal medicine specialist that suggested giving him pretensone and something else, and a low protein diet. I know this is not all the information i need to post, i will put the exact lingo and blood panels on tommorrow, i just wanted to get started and hopefully get some feed back, i did switch his food over a month ago to the wellness based on this forum post and harley's conditions, and he loves the duck, he digest it well and i dont want to switch him to the science diet l/d, its clumpy, and i have done my homework on the indgriendents, and i disagree with that.harley is a very picky eater, and the wellness is 8%protein and 4-5% fat which i know it is not as good as others, but the other brands, just the consistency of them, i know he will not eat. Please help me save my baby boy, he is my world, and he is so happy and lively, and he has to be okay, getting the doomsday report may be a realty check for me, but i am not willing to accept that harley is not going to make it. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks kimberly (harley's mom) |
Welcome Guest! | |
12-23-2008, 07:09 PM | #2 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| That is a lot to take in. First, I question both vets. An intestinal biopsy/endoscopy couldn't have shown liver shunt and just because the liver enzymes are normal doesn't mean a thing. The liver has to be considerably damaged for the enzymes to go up in most cases. Was that 79 the pre or post result? Before I forget, when feeding wet food it has to be converted to dry matter basis, so it isn't 8% protein. Take the protein and divide by the recipracol of the moisture. So if the protein is 10% and the moisture is 80%, 100-80=20. 10 divided 20 = .5. So the protein would really be 50%. Ultrasounds are only 60-80% accurate at diagnosis shunts and with a number like 79, it is likely microvascular dysplasia (small shunting throughout the liver). This is treated be supplements and diet and can't be surgically corrected. He may be a picky eater because if he does have LS and MVD, toxins could be building up in his system and wouldn't be properly filtered by the liver. This would make him not feel well. The type of protein given and the amount is extremely important. If a shunt is suspected, why would a vet do exploratory surgery? The only surgery that would be needed (as far as the liver goes) is an ameroid constrictor placed to close the shunt. This is if he has a shunt at all. Bile acids can be up for any liver function issue. If that is suspected though, a Protein C test is next followed by scintography. Ultrasounds are good if bladder stones secondary to liver issues are expected or if the vet wants a look at the abdomen. Is he on supplements? A liver compromised dog should go on prednisolone, not prednisone, as far as I know. IBS and liver issues go together sometimes. What is being done about the bacteria and what has been tried? Is he on probiotics? Why does the vet think it is liver shunt just because of high bile acids? Are they sure it isn't secondary to the food poison/high ALT issue?
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
12-24-2008, 11:41 AM | #3 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| Excellent questions, Crystal. It could very well be liver issues...Even if he does have an extrahepatic shunt, he may have blown more shunts by this age if he hasn't been getting proper liver support. It's more likely MVD though. IBD and liver disease are very commonly seen together. The conversion of protein to a dry matter basis is EXTREMELY important to take into consideration...50% protein is way too high for a liver compromised dogs exhibiting the symptoms you have described. It is not true that you would see *more severe* symptoms by now if he really had liver issues...There are several dogs that have not been diagnosed until 6 or 7 or even 8 years old who have had a liver shunt. Different dogs exhibit different symptoms depending on the severity of the liver problem at that time.
__________________ Miko 's his Mommy |
12-26-2008, 10:59 AM | #4 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: wilmington
Posts: 6
| Thanks for your imput - here are the exact readings of harley's report - stomach biopsy-stomach several pieces-these sections of gastic mucosa show scattered infiltration of lymphocytes with plasma cells in the lamina propria. Vascular congestion and hemorrhage are seen. Small intestine-multiple sections with similiar lesions are examined. Throughout the mucosa there is an increase in the numbers of plasma cells and lymphocytes with fewer eosinophils in the lamina propra. The mucosa also shows vascular congestion, mild edema and dilated lacteals colon-throughout mucosa there is moderate increase in #of plasma cells & lymphocytes w/scattered neutropils & eosinophils in the lamina propria. Also show vascular congestion. Loss of goblet cells in some glands. Microscopic findings stomach- mild gastritis - small intestine-moderate subacute enteritis- colon-moderate subacute to chronic colitis. Please help me understand what all this means - thanks harleys mom |
Bookmarks |
Tags |
ibs, liver shunt, or what |
|
|
| |
|
|
SHOP NOW: Amazon :: eBay :: Buy.com :: Newegg :: PetStore :: Petco :: PetSmart