|
Welcome to the YorkieTalk.com Forums Community - the community for Yorkshire Terriers. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be able to chat with over 35,000 YorkieTalk members, read over 2,000,000 posted discussions, and view more than 15,000 Yorkie photos in the YorkieTalk Photo Gallery after you register. We would love to have you as a member! Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please click here to contact us. |
|
| LinkBack | Thread Tools |
12-22-2008, 07:01 PM | #1 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: jersey shore
Posts: 181
| liver shunt or related issues???? My 2yr old baby was recently diagnosed with a possible liver shunt. She is not a candidate for surgery and is currently being medically managed with a special diet & supplements. Anyone experiencing anything similar????
__________________ SashaCeCeMaureen CoCoChanel |
Welcome Guest! | |
12-22-2008, 07:04 PM | #2 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Yes, several of us have Yorkies with compromised livers. What are her symptoms? What testing was done and can you post the blood work results? What food and supplements is she on? Why isn't she a candidate for surgery if it is LS?
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
12-22-2008, 07:20 PM | #3 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
| Ditto to Ellie May's questions.. Many of us have liver compromised yorkies that are being managed through special diet, meds, supplements...
__________________ Miko 's his Mommy |
12-22-2008, 07:44 PM | #4 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: jersey shore
Posts: 181
| All bloodwork = normal Urinalysis = normal BAT = elevated: 69 & 111, indicating liver pathology...... Sasha had 2 seizures in a 2 week span. She had always been healthy prior but had recently become lehargic. She is currently on Hills LD, and is supplemented with Milk Thistle. We will be doing another BAT in about 3 months. She is not a candidate for surgery due to her size (2.5lbs) and intolerance to anesthesia.
__________________ SashaCeCeMaureen CoCoChanel |
12-22-2008, 07:50 PM | #5 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: jersey shore
Posts: 181
| oh...and I am a member of Liver_Shunt_ And _MVD_Support......I was curious as to how many YT member and their babies are going through this . I did't see a support group here.....perhaps we can start one???
__________________ SashaCeCeMaureen CoCoChanel |
12-22-2008, 07:53 PM | #6 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Okay, do you have a copy of the blood panel? The liver enzymes and BUN might be normal but are they high or low normal? It definately sounds like liver shunt or MVD. Intolerance to anesthesia is a symptoms. Be very careful what drugs she is given...no NSAIDs ever. Your next step is a Protein C Test sent to Cornell. Normal range indicates MVD and abnormal indicates shunt. Although the management with a symptomatic dog with MVD or LS (that can't have surgery) would be the same... So I guess you don't have to go further. Those numbers are in shunt range but it is still very possibly MVD. Is she on Hills wet or dry? Is she only on milk thistle? With two seizures, depression and anesthetic intolerance, I would start full supplementation.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
12-22-2008, 08:13 PM | #7 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: jersey shore
Posts: 181
| I don't have a copy of the blood panel....just going by the info that my vet gave me.....I will ask for that though. She is on the Hills LD wet formula and Milk Thistle to start. Doc wants to redo the BAT in a couple of months and also wants to do a sonogram....then we'll go from there. She has not had another seizure since she has been on the new diet (about 3wks) but just dosen't seem to have an energy. Also, her stools have been small and a bit dry (kind of like rabbit pellets almost) and she had only been going once a day. Doc suggested pumpkin mixed in her food and/or a little Metamucil for natural fiber....this seems to help. I know its important to get her to form more frequent, softer stools to eliminate the toxins from her system.
__________________ SashaCeCeMaureen CoCoChanel |
12-22-2008, 08:52 PM | #8 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Do you really trust your vet? Have you considered switching? I ask because while ultrasounds are great at showing bladder stones (secondary to liver issues), they are only 60-80% accurate in the diagnosis of shunts. So unless the vet is looking for other diseases, it could be a waste of money, especially since she can't have surgery anyway and you would treat as symptomatic MVD anyway... A Protein C Test would be much cheaper and helps distinguish between LS and MVD. Also, if a dog has high bile acids and neurologic symptoms (hepatic encephalopathy), they should be on lactulose to help push the toxins out of their bodies (toxins building up makes them feel sick). This is a laxative and should soften her stool. She should have two soft but formed bowel movements a day on it. She should be on SAMe (Denosyl or Vetri-DMG), lactulose and possibly fish oil and vitamin e. Milk thistle is also good.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
12-22-2008, 09:07 PM | #9 | |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,317
| Quote:
An ultrasound is a waste of money since they can be as low as only 60% accurate. Current protocol is to get a Protein C test after a high BAT. You'd be surprised how many vets have never heard of it. Here is information you can share with your vet: Comparative Coagulation -- NYS Animal Health Diagnostic Center | |
12-23-2008, 05:34 AM | #10 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: jersey shore
Posts: 181
| I had questioned the ultrasound, too....she said she would be looking for inflamation. I'm not sure if it's necessary....that's one of the reasons I started this thread....I'd like to compare notes. This is a new vet that we are using, it's difficult to place full trust in anyone "new" to us..... I learned alot on the liver shunt site which helps me to both understand the desease and ask the correct questions. She seems petty knowledgable. I had also asked her about lactulose.....she wanted to try a more natural approach 1st to see how she would do......she said alot of vets have changed their views on lactulose... I also plan to ask about the protein c test. Thanks for sharing!
__________________ SashaCeCeMaureen CoCoChanel Last edited by cocoangel; 12-23-2008 at 05:38 AM. |
12-23-2008, 05:39 AM | #11 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: jersey shore
Posts: 181
| I had questioned the ultrasound, too....she said she would be looking for inflamation. I'm not sure if it's necessary....that's one of the reasons I started this thread....I'd like to compare notes. This is a new vet that we are using, it's difficult to place full trust in anyone "new" to us..... I learned alot on the liver shunt site which helps me to both understand the desease and ask the correct questions. She seems pretty knowledgabl,though. I had also asked her about lactulose.....she wanted to try a more natural approach 1st to see how she would do......she said alot of vets have changed their views on lactulose...
__________________ SashaCeCeMaureen CoCoChanel |
12-23-2008, 05:43 AM | #12 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: jersey shore
Posts: 181
| oops! sorry for the double post!!
__________________ SashaCeCeMaureen CoCoChanel |
12-23-2008, 05:45 AM | #13 | |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Quote:
Ellie will be starting lactulose shortly and we don't even know if she is having neurologic symptoms. We will see if it makes her feel any better (although she feels fine and she is energetic, I want to see if she is at all slowed down due to toxins) and stops her occasional shaking. Fiber is good but it isn't going to bind toxins and push them out like lactulose dose. I wonder what the problem with it is. If the vet does believe this is LS, I don't really understand why you'd need to spend $200 so she could look for inflammation. She could go on EPA and DHA (fish oil) to help bring any inflammation down. Milk thistle should also help with this. Why hasn't the vet put her on SAMe? I mean, an ultrasound really is a great diagnostic tool and would show everything going on in her abdomen but I'm just not sure it is needed here since the vet is so sure it is liver shunt (which she can't be because it is also likely MVD...).
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 | |
12-23-2008, 09:28 AM | #14 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: jersey shore
Posts: 181
| Quote:
My original post stated "possible liver shunt".....It very well may be MVD. I agree about the ultrasound....I am not convinced it is needed. I'll have to ask about the SAMe......what would the dosage be (for a 2.5 lb dog)?
__________________ SashaCeCeMaureen CoCoChanel | |
12-23-2008, 09:32 AM | #15 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: jersey shore
Posts: 181
| Quote:
__________________ SashaCeCeMaureen CoCoChanel Last edited by cocoangel; 12-23-2008 at 09:34 AM. | |
Bookmarks |
|
|
| |
|
|
SHOP NOW: Amazon :: eBay :: Buy.com :: Newegg :: PetStore :: Petco :: PetSmart