My Yorkie needs 3 operations.... - YorkieTalk.com Forums

MoxieEli · 11-22-2008, 08:13 AM

Hi,

I am facing a very difficult decision and I'm hoping conversing with other Yorkie owners will help me thru this.

In May of 2008 we adopted 2 male Yorkies (brothers). Moxie is larger and stronger of the two, very active and very loving. Eli is less active but also very loving. Moxie, the parents and siblings are all heathy.

Approximately two months ago we noticed Eli developed a limp and his rear legs were gradually becoming weaker and unstable. A month ago the vet did an x-ray and determined Eli may have early stages of hip dysplasia. It was decided to bring him back in one month for more x-rays.

Yesterday when I came home from work and took the dogs outside, I noticed Eli was struggling to pee. After several attempts all he could produce was a slow drip. Shortly after we were on our way to the vet.

The vet suspected bladder stones but could not see them in an x-ray. An x-ray of Eli's hips did verify hip dysplasia. The vet instructed me to take Eli to the emergency hospital immediately.

At the emergency hospital they gave Eli a mild sedative and inserted a catheter to drain his bladder. An ultra sound verified bladder stones. Although the stones will need to be analyzed, a blood test leads the vet to believe Eli has a liver shunt. The vet gave me my options, I held Eli for a short time, paid a deposit and then drove home to discuss the situation with my wife.

At 1:00 my wife had a long talk with the vet and we decided to go ahead with surgery to remove the stones to buy us time to make other decisions. Because Eli will need surgery for hip dysplasia and for a possible liver shunt we asked the vet what he would do if he were us. We understand Yorkies can have difficulties with anesthesia. The vet felt 3 major operations may be too much for Eli and there are no guarantees he'll survive. He basically said he wouldn't do it and we should consider the alternatives.

I hate to make a decision on Eli's life because of money. But there are no guarantees that he will live a happy and healthy life after all of this or will survive the operations. We are looking at $1300 for last nights surgery, $3-5000 for liver shunt (more if 2 operations are required) and $1000+ for hip operation.

I'm hoping you all can provide information and help me with very hard decision. What would you do?

Sorry for such a depressing message. Thanks to all who respond.

Moxie and Eli's dad.

marcerella02 · 11-22-2008, 08:57 AM

I'm sorry I am no help I just wanted to say welcome to Yorkie Talk and I'm sure tehre is someone on here who can help you through this.

amandawash · 11-22-2008, 09:01 AM

Bless your heart. I am so sorry that you and your family are having to go through this, and of course poor little Eli.

I would certainly seek a second opinion. I think it's good you did the bladder stone surgery. You can know get some diagnostics done to address the liver problems. Your vet would start with comprehensive bloodwork (I am assuming they did some blood work last night??) and a bile acid test, which is done before and after fasting.

There are several things that could be going on there, ranging from mild to severe. If it is something like a mild case of MVD, you can usually manage that with diet and supplements.

By hip dysplasia, do you mean Leggs-Perthes Disease? I have several friends on here whose babies have been diagnosed and treated, by surgery, and are doing extremely well.

Please don't be discouraged just yet. I hope you can get a second opinion by a vet who is a little more positive. How old is your baby and what is his size? Does he present with any symptoms aside from lethargy that might indicate liver problems? Some of these include (but not limited) to head pressing, turning circles, picky eater, vomitting, etc. Anything like that?

MoxieEli · 11-22-2008, 11:06 AM

Yes - they did blood work last night - the results led the vet to believe Eli has a liver shunt.

Yes - by hip dysplasia, I mean Leggs-Perthes Disease. The vet did tell me they have very good results with the hip operation.

Eli is 8 months and approximately 9 lbs. He certainly has a big appetite as he's on the heavy side so he's not a picky eater. He presents no liver shunt symptoms. He's not as active as Moxie and sleeps more but I would say it's because of hip pain.

There were 5 stones in his bladder. Around noon he pulled out his catheter so they left it out because he was peeing on his own. If he's eating by tomorrow we can pick him up otherwise he has to stay until he eats.

I'm hoping because he doesn't shown any liver shunt symptoms, maybe it's a mild case that can be treated without surgery.

Thank you for the responses.

amandawash · 11-22-2008, 11:18 AM

Hey! Well that all sounds like pretty good news!! I understand the vet did bloodwork, but I beleive (I have no experience myself w/ liver shunts but I am sure someone else who does will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong) that bile acid test is really the only way to determine the extent of liver problems without ultrasound, biopsy, etc. The bile acid is done by fasting for a certain amount of time, taking a blood sample, feeding, and then testing again. Since your situation sounds like it was quite an emergency, I doubt that test was done.

Do you have the test results? If so, could you post some of the numbers? Many on here have extensive experience with this stuff.

He has several things in his favor, and one of those being his size. I think it would be a much worse prognosis if he was 2lbs. You can go visit Delisa2850 and Robin, Mxkids. Both of them have recently had LP surgeries done on their kiddos, and they are doing GREAT!!

Did you vet provide you with any other information about treating/diagnosing the liver problems?

Wabbit · 11-22-2008, 11:31 AM

OMG I'm so sorry you and your little Eli are going through so much!!! I definately agree with Amanda you should get a second opinion before you choose not to go ahead with any necessary surgeries!!!!

Sounds like you have gotten some good news lately!!!! YAY!!!

Please keep us up on what's going on with your furbaby!!!

chachi · 11-22-2008, 11:40 AM

I would get him tested the liver problems could be something not as serious like MVD which I have heard can be controlled with the proper diet

donnarod · 11-22-2008, 12:46 PM

So Sorry. Will pray for you.

MoxieEli · 11-22-2008, 02:06 PM

Just got a call from the vet and Eli is ready to come home. Just waiting for my daughter and we're on our way to get him. The vet says he's doing great and they have all fallen in love with him!

I will post information as to where we go from here later.

Thanks to all who answered!

Patti · 11-22-2008, 03:36 PM

So happy he is coming home!! My Cali has very mild MVD Internal liver shunt) thay has needed no treatment so hopefully that will be the case with your baby.

Ellie May · 11-22-2008, 04:12 PM

I'm sorry about little Eli.

If this were my dog and there was any way possible that I could afford it, I'd be doing all that is possible.

Liver disease is not a death sentence.
The stones are most likely secondary to it.
If you take care of the stones he has now and take care of the liver, maybe the stones issues will go away. The vet cannot possible tell you it is liver shunt by one blood test. If they say they can, I think I'd find a new vet. A pre and post meal bile acids test sent to a lab is a good clue but diagnostic imaging needs to be done or a Protein C test. MVD (small shunting throughout the liver) can be managed by diet and supplements. Intrahepatic shunts (shunts inside the liver) are hard to get to and probably can't be fixed. These dogs would be managed also. Extrahepatic (outside the liver) shunts can usually be repaired but problems can develop after surgery. In a young dog, it is most definately worth a try.

Why doesn't a Yorkie have a good chance of making it through three major surgeries? IF the right anesthesia is used and the right pain meds (absolutely no NSAIDs), they can do very well with liver disease and surgery...

Don't know much about hip problems but I think I'd consult with an internist about the liver issues and see when this surgery should be done.

University of Tennessee (best place to have liver shunt surgery done) is probably the cheapest (under $2000). Corness is another excellent place and may be cheaper than $3-5000. That is waaaay too much in my opinion.

Hope everything works out for you.

mkawczak · 11-22-2008, 04:27 PM

You sure have your hands full.

You will be happy you found this site. There are alot of people on here that know there stuff.

I've got to agree with prior posts. Get all the data and get a second oppinion,if you feel you need to. Never second guess your heart. These vet bills can be overwhelming. Take it on step at a time. Make the decisions that are best for you and your little one. He's blessed to be with a family that cares enough to adopt two pups at once. Hang in there and post us the lab info, and anymore questions and support you need. Good luck and hugs and kisses to your little man.

Yorkieluv · 11-22-2008, 06:06 PM

I am pretty sure the reason your vet is so certain that your baby has a liver shunt is because of the stones...The type of stones that liver shunt dogs produce are ammonium urate and are NOT seen on x-ray and are ONLY seen on ultrasound....Of course, liver shunt can't be diagnosed only from that, but like I said, that's a VERY good indicator...
The only dogs that produce ammonium urate stones are Dalmations and dogs with liver shunt/disease...
Many times, these stones are the only symptom of liver disease...Does your baby exhibit any symptoms other than the bladder stone issues?
Picky eating? falling over? acting drunk? drooling? vomiting? etc?

Do you have any lab values? You should get copies of all of that from your vet.

Liver disease is not a death sentence, and many liver compromised dogs have had surgery. My yorkie has had a total of 3 surgeries (I think...), and he is still alive

You just have to provide maximum liver support and make sure they use the RIGHT anesthesia and be very, very careful with pain meds...

MoxieEli · 11-23-2008, 10:17 AM

Eli has been home for 15 hours and is doing well. He has no bladder control and pees red but that's normal for now. He has been walking a lot, even went after the cat (he loves our cat) a few times and he is eating VERY well. Overall he seems to be in good spirits.

Yorkieluv - Eli exhibits none of the symptoms you listed. The vet that operated was at the emergency hospital - not Eli's vet. We were told to take him back to Eli's vet along with the stones for further testing so we don't have any lab values. They did say when they called to say he was ready to come home that his tests look promising - wish I had asked for more info.

Tomorrow I will get in touch with Eli's vet and see where we go from here.

Thanks to everyone for the information - it will certainly help me make sure he gets the proper testing.

Moxie and Eli's dad

MoxieEli · 12-09-2008, 06:25 PM

Here are the latest news on Eli. He has healed well and is back to his normal self. Last Friday he went in to have his staples removed and for his bile acid test. We received the results today - not good!

His Pre Meal Bile Acid was 94 - Post Meal was 196.1

We haven't heard our options yet and he still needs hip surgery.

He is 8 months now, 9.5 lbs. What baffles me is he shows NO signs of liver shunt other than the bladder stones we had removed. He eats very well - very playful but tires easily - seems very happy despite his deteriorating hips.

I would appreciate anyone to tell me how serious the numbers are. Also, any advice on what should be done next. I want to make sure I'm somewhat educated for the next specialist visit.

Many thanks to all replies. Moxie and Eli's dad.

11-22-2008, 08:13 AM	#1
MoxieEli YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sidney, Maine, USA Posts: 9	My Yorkie needs 3 operations.... Hi, I am facing a very difficult decision and I'm hoping conversing with other Yorkie owners will help me thru this. In May of 2008 we adopted 2 male Yorkies (brothers). Moxie is larger and stronger of the two, very active and very loving. Eli is less active but also very loving. Moxie, the parents and siblings are all heathy. Approximately two months ago we noticed Eli developed a limp and his rear legs were gradually becoming weaker and unstable. A month ago the vet did an x-ray and determined Eli may have early stages of hip dysplasia. It was decided to bring him back in one month for more x-rays. Yesterday when I came home from work and took the dogs outside, I noticed Eli was struggling to pee. After several attempts all he could produce was a slow drip. Shortly after we were on our way to the vet. The vet suspected bladder stones but could not see them in an x-ray. An x-ray of Eli's hips did verify hip dysplasia. The vet instructed me to take Eli to the emergency hospital immediately. At the emergency hospital they gave Eli a mild sedative and inserted a catheter to drain his bladder. An ultra sound verified bladder stones. Although the stones will need to be analyzed, a blood test leads the vet to believe Eli has a liver shunt. The vet gave me my options, I held Eli for a short time, paid a deposit and then drove home to discuss the situation with my wife. At 1:00 my wife had a long talk with the vet and we decided to go ahead with surgery to remove the stones to buy us time to make other decisions. Because Eli will need surgery for hip dysplasia and for a possible liver shunt we asked the vet what he would do if he were us. We understand Yorkies can have difficulties with anesthesia. The vet felt 3 major operations may be too much for Eli and there are no guarantees he'll survive. He basically said he wouldn't do it and we should consider the alternatives. I hate to make a decision on Eli's life because of money. But there are no guarantees that he will live a happy and healthy life after all of this or will survive the operations. We are looking at $1300 for last nights surgery, $3-5000 for liver shunt (more if 2 operations are required) and $1000+ for hip operation. I'm hoping you all can provide information and help me with very hard decision. What would you do? Sorry for such a depressing message. Thanks to all who respond. Moxie and Eli's dad.

11-22-2008, 08:57 AM	#2
marcerella02 Loved by Layla Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 11,257	I'm sorry I am no help I just wanted to say welcome to Yorkie Talk and I'm sure tehre is someone on here who can help you through this. __________________ http://misscanam.blogspot.com/ Layla 's Simon

11-22-2008, 09:01 AM	#3
amandawash Lovin' my R & R Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Middleton, Idaho Posts: 2,152	Bless your heart. I am so sorry that you and your family are having to go through this, and of course poor little Eli. I would certainly seek a second opinion. I think it's good you did the bladder stone surgery. You can know get some diagnostics done to address the liver problems. Your vet would start with comprehensive bloodwork (I am assuming they did some blood work last night??) and a bile acid test, which is done before and after fasting. There are several things that could be going on there, ranging from mild to severe. If it is something like a mild case of MVD, you can usually manage that with diet and supplements. By hip dysplasia, do you mean Leggs-Perthes Disease? I have several friends on here whose babies have been diagnosed and treated, by surgery, and are doing extremely well. Please don't be discouraged just yet. I hope you can get a second opinion by a vet who is a little more positive. How old is your baby and what is his size? Does he present with any symptoms aside from lethargy that might indicate liver problems? Some of these include (but not limited) to head pressing, turning circles, picky eater, vomitting, etc. Anything like that? __________________ Amanda 's Ranger & Ryder

11-22-2008, 11:06 AM	#4
MoxieEli YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sidney, Maine, USA Posts: 9	amandawash - Yes - they did blood work last night - the results led the vet to believe Eli has a liver shunt. Yes - by hip dysplasia, I mean Leggs-Perthes Disease. The vet did tell me they have very good results with the hip operation. Eli is 8 months and approximately 9 lbs. He certainly has a big appetite as he's on the heavy side so he's not a picky eater. He presents no liver shunt symptoms. He's not as active as Moxie and sleeps more but I would say it's because of hip pain. There were 5 stones in his bladder. Around noon he pulled out his catheter so they left it out because he was peeing on his own. If he's eating by tomorrow we can pick him up otherwise he has to stay until he eats. I'm hoping because he doesn't shown any liver shunt symptoms, maybe it's a mild case that can be treated without surgery. Thank you for the responses.

11-22-2008, 11:18 AM	#5
amandawash Lovin' my R & R Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Middleton, Idaho Posts: 2,152	Hey! Well that all sounds like pretty good news!! I understand the vet did bloodwork, but I beleive (I have no experience myself w/ liver shunts but I am sure someone else who does will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong) that bile acid test is really the only way to determine the extent of liver problems without ultrasound, biopsy, etc. The bile acid is done by fasting for a certain amount of time, taking a blood sample, feeding, and then testing again. Since your situation sounds like it was quite an emergency, I doubt that test was done. Do you have the test results? If so, could you post some of the numbers? Many on here have extensive experience with this stuff. He has several things in his favor, and one of those being his size. I think it would be a much worse prognosis if he was 2lbs. You can go visit Delisa2850 and Robin, Mxkids. Both of them have recently had LP surgeries done on their kiddos, and they are doing GREAT!! Did you vet provide you with any other information about treating/diagnosing the liver problems? __________________ Amanda 's Ranger & Ryder

11-22-2008, 11:31 AM	#6
Wabbit Love my little flowers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: In Gorgeous Montana!!! Posts: 4,499	OMG I'm so sorry you and your little Eli are going through so much!!! I definately agree with Amanda you should get a second opinion before you choose not to go ahead with any necessary surgeries!!!! Sounds like you have gotten some good news lately!!!! YAY!!! Please keep us up on what's going on with your furbaby!!! __________________ Tam Flower babies: *Daizy Mae and Tulip Petals* RIP Honey Rose & Jasmine

11-22-2008, 11:40 AM	#7
chachi I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 37,147	I would get him tested the liver problems could be something not as serious like MVD which I have heard can be controlled with the proper diet __________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431 Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427

11-22-2008, 12:46 PM	#8
donnarod "Owned" by Miss Tricksie Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Riverview, FL Posts: 3,737	So Sorry. Will pray for you. __________________ Donna, Tricksie and Peanut

11-22-2008, 02:06 PM	#9
MoxieEli YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sidney, Maine, USA Posts: 9	Just got a call from the vet and Eli is ready to come home. Just waiting for my daughter and we're on our way to get him. The vet says he's doing great and they have all fallen in love with him! I will post information as to where we go from here later. Thanks to all who answered!

11-22-2008, 03:36 PM	#10
Patti Donating YT 30K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 35,509 Blog Entries: 6	So happy he is coming home!! My Cali has very mild MVD Internal liver shunt) thay has needed no treatment so hopefully that will be the case with your baby. __________________ Cali Pixie Roxie : RIP Nikki; RIP Maya;RIP my sweet Dixie girl 1/17/08 http://callipuppyscastle.bravehost.com/index.html

11-22-2008, 04:12 PM	#11
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	I'm sorry about little Eli. If this were my dog and there was any way possible that I could afford it, I'd be doing all that is possible. Liver disease is not a death sentence. The stones are most likely secondary to it. If you take care of the stones he has now and take care of the liver, maybe the stones issues will go away. The vet cannot possible tell you it is liver shunt by one blood test. If they say they can, I think I'd find a new vet. A pre and post meal bile acids test sent to a lab is a good clue but diagnostic imaging needs to be done or a Protein C test. MVD (small shunting throughout the liver) can be managed by diet and supplements. Intrahepatic shunts (shunts inside the liver) are hard to get to and probably can't be fixed. These dogs would be managed also. Extrahepatic (outside the liver) shunts can usually be repaired but problems can develop after surgery. In a young dog, it is most definately worth a try. Why doesn't a Yorkie have a good chance of making it through three major surgeries? IF the right anesthesia is used and the right pain meds (absolutely no NSAIDs), they can do very well with liver disease and surgery... Don't know much about hip problems but I think I'd consult with an internist about the liver issues and see when this surgery should be done. University of Tennessee (best place to have liver shunt surgery done) is probably the cheapest (under $2000). Corness is another excellent place and may be cheaper than $3-5000. That is waaaay too much in my opinion. Hope everything works out for you. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

11-22-2008, 04:27 PM	#12
mkawczak Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,320 Blog Entries: 3	Welcome You sure have your hands full. You will be happy you found this site. There are alot of people on here that know there stuff. I've got to agree with prior posts. Get all the data and get a second oppinion,if you feel you need to. Never second guess your heart. These vet bills can be overwhelming. Take it on step at a time. Make the decisions that are best for you and your little one. He's blessed to be with a family that cares enough to adopt two pups at once. Hang in there and post us the lab info, and anymore questions and support you need. Good luck and hugs and kisses to your little man. __________________ N.Y. 'S FINESTPONGO,AIDEN,HARLEY, KI-KI ,GARFIELD ,MINI-ME

11-22-2008, 06:06 PM	#13
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	I am pretty sure the reason your vet is so certain that your baby has a liver shunt is because of the stones...The type of stones that liver shunt dogs produce are ammonium urate and are NOT seen on x-ray and are ONLY seen on ultrasound....Of course, liver shunt can't be diagnosed only from that, but like I said, that's a VERY good indicator... The only dogs that produce ammonium urate stones are Dalmations and dogs with liver shunt/disease... Many times, these stones are the only symptom of liver disease...Does your baby exhibit any symptoms other than the bladder stone issues? Picky eating? falling over? acting drunk? drooling? vomiting? etc? Do you have any lab values? You should get copies of all of that from your vet. Liver disease is not a death sentence, and many liver compromised dogs have had surgery. My yorkie has had a total of 3 surgeries (I think...), and he is still alive You just have to provide maximum liver support and make sure they use the RIGHT anesthesia and be very, very careful with pain meds... __________________ Miko 's his Mommy Last edited by Yorkieluv; 11-22-2008 at 06:08 PM.

11-23-2008, 10:17 AM	#14
MoxieEli YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sidney, Maine, USA Posts: 9	Eli has been home for 15 hours and is doing well. He has no bladder control and pees red but that's normal for now. He has been walking a lot, even went after the cat (he loves our cat) a few times and he is eating VERY well. Overall he seems to be in good spirits. Yorkieluv - Eli exhibits none of the symptoms you listed. The vet that operated was at the emergency hospital - not Eli's vet. We were told to take him back to Eli's vet along with the stones for further testing so we don't have any lab values. They did say when they called to say he was ready to come home that his tests look promising - wish I had asked for more info. Tomorrow I will get in touch with Eli's vet and see where we go from here. Thanks to everyone for the information - it will certainly help me make sure he gets the proper testing. Moxie and Eli's dad

12-09-2008, 06:25 PM	#15
MoxieEli YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sidney, Maine, USA Posts: 9	Here are the latest news on Eli. He has healed well and is back to his normal self. Last Friday he went in to have his staples removed and for his bile acid test. We received the results today - not good! His Pre Meal Bile Acid was 94 - Post Meal was 196.1 We haven't heard our options yet and he still needs hip surgery. He is 8 months now, 9.5 lbs. What baffles me is he shows NO signs of liver shunt other than the bladder stones we had removed. He eats very well - very playful but tires easily - seems very happy despite his deteriorating hips. I would appreciate anyone to tell me how serious the numbers are. Also, any advice on what should be done next. I want to make sure I'm somewhat educated for the next specialist visit. Many thanks to all replies. Moxie and Eli's dad.