YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community


Welcome to the YorkieTalk.com Forums Community - the community for Yorkshire Terriers.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be able to chat with over 35,000 YorkieTalk members, read over 2,000,000 posted discussions, and view more than 15,000 Yorkie photos in the YorkieTalk Photo Gallery after you register. We would love to have you as a member!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please click here to contact us.

Go Back   YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community > YorkieTalk > Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar JavaChat Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-21-2008, 03:04 PM   #1
YorkieTalk Newbie!
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5
Default Liver Shunt Question

We have been informed that our 8 month, 2lb Yorkie Penny most likely has a liver shunt; however, we are pending her bile acid analysis. At this point, we have contacted her breeder (still under her health guarantee) and we are torn between two choices: (1) Return her for a new puppy (breeder will try to find another home for her) or (2) keep her and receive $1,200 (partial refund to be used for her surgery). She has had multiple symptoms since we got her; however, our vet kept telling us it was for different reasons. Assuming we decide to have the surgery, what can we expect afterwards? Will she need supervision/extra care throughout the day, for a week, month, year, etc.? Will she need special blood work done periodically for the rest of her life? What medications will she need to take and for how long? Any information will be very helpful. It is a very difficult decision and we are trying to determine what will be the best for Penny.

Thanks,

Vickie
Vickie1723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Welcome Guest!
Not Registered?

Join today and remove this ad!

Old 05-21-2008, 03:17 PM   #2
YT 500 Club Member
 
Mybabe4me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 713
Default

Vickie
I am not good with liver shunts, but i do know that most pawrents on here will recommend a bile acid test done on her..This is the first step in diagnosing Liver Shunts.. Second I believe they will need a special diet (low protien) and medicine or supplements.. There will be many pawrents here to help you soon..
Please keep us updated on what you do decide.. I also believe if you go to yahoo you put in liver shunt groups you will find a good group there for support and all you wiill need..
__________________
Val and Babybear
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/136060[/url]
Mybabe4me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 05:59 PM   #3
Donating YT 500 Club Member
 
SassyAnn101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 647
Default

I would get the bile acid test ran first. There are two different types of shunts. One that is correctable with surgery, the other is not. If the bile acid test comes back above normal limits the next step would be to have a stinagraphy test ran. (spelling is off). This test is more accurate than an ultra sound. Talk to your vet, make sure they are very experienced with liver shunts, if not find a vet who is. I lost my baby Gizmo this past February after liver shunt surgery. He was almost four years old. the success rate is higher if the shunt is found while they are still puppies before liver damage occurs. Dr. Tobis with the University of Tennessee is an expert on liver shunts and offers great info. on University of Tennessee's Vet Hospital web site. After surgery the puppy is placed on a low protien diet for around six months (I think) after that if the bile acid tests return to normal range the puppy can go back to eating normal food. If the levels do not return to normal or if the shunt cannot be corrected through surgery alot of shunt puppies can live normal lives with the help of special diets and medication. Gizmo's surgery at UT costed around $2,400.00. There was two other yorkies who had the surgery on the same day as Gizmo. Both puppies were young under one year old, both left the hospital the next day with a good prognosis. Research Liver Shunts, and the methods of treatment. Ask questions, and feel comfrotable before making any decisions about surgery. Not all Vets are experienced with this type of surgery. Good luck, your baby will be in my thoughts and prayers for a recovery.
SassyAnn101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2008, 06:16 PM   #4
MY HEART AND SOUL
Donating Member
 
Grizzley Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SassyAnn101 View Post
I would get the bile acid test ran first. There are two different types of shunts. One that is correctable with surgery, the other is not. If the bile acid test comes back above normal limits the next step would be to have a stinagraphy test ran. (spelling is off). This test is more accurate than an ultra sound. Talk to your vet, make sure they are very experienced with liver shunts, if not find a vet who is. I lost my baby Gizmo this past February after liver shunt surgery. He was almost four years old. the success rate is higher if the shunt is found while they are still puppies before liver damage occurs. Dr. Tobis with the University of Tennessee is an expert on liver shunts and offers great info. on University of Tennessee's Vet Hospital web site. After surgery the puppy is placed on a low protien diet for around six months (I think) after that if the bile acid tests return to normal range the puppy can go back to eating normal food. If the levels do not return to normal or if the shunt cannot be corrected through surgery alot of shunt puppies can live normal lives with the help of special diets and medication. Gizmo's surgery at UT costed around $2,400.00. There was two other yorkies who had the surgery on the same day as Gizmo. Both puppies were young under one year old, both left the hospital the next day with a good prognosis. Research Liver Shunts, and the methods of treatment. Ask questions, and feel comfrotable before making any decisions about surgery. Not all Vets are experienced with this type of surgery. Good luck, your baby will be in my thoughts and prayers for a recovery.
My condolences to you on your loss of Gizmo. I am so very sorry. My Grizzley Bear lived with a shunt. I agree with everything you said.

Vickie where are you located in N. California? UCD has a wonderful Veterinary school that is experienced in this. I wish you luck and if you want to please feel free to PM me. I will keep you and Penny in my thoughts and prayers also.Hugs to you and her.

Mary
__________________
A + = My Grizzley Bear
10/12/95 to 10/10/2007:
Grizzley Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 08:31 AM   #5
YorkieTalk Newbie!
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5
Default Update - Penny's bile acid test results

I just want to thank all of you who responded to my question about Liver Shunts. We have the results of Penny's bile acid test - her pre-meal level was 22.8 (the vet said normal levels should be less than 10); and her post-meal level was 210.3 (normal levels should be less than 20). The vet called late last night with the results. Penny is back at home with us now, is eating well - Science Diet L/D, taking her medication, and seems to have a little more energy. At this point, we are still trying to decide what to do - take the emotional and financial risk of getting Penny surgery, or return her to the breeder to possibly never have the surgery that may save her life. Our vet has contacted Dr. Tobias at the University of Tennessee, but we have to decide if that is the best option for Penny and for us. There are just so many what ifs at this point. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers, as this is a very difficult time for us all.

Thanks,
Vickie
Vickie1723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 08:47 AM   #6
Donating YT 3000 Club Member
 
Yorkieluv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
Default

Please join the liver shunt group for advice and for a ton of information:
Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support : Liver Shunt & MVD/HMD Support
__________________
Miko 's his Mommy
Yorkieluv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 11:36 AM   #7
Senior Yorkie Talker
 
bailey12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 85
Default

Hi. I have a 7 year old, Zeus, diagnosed with MVD at 10 months. He is doing great. He's healthy and happy. Once everything was diagnosed and we figured out what was the best course, the care and cost hasn't been too bad. Zeus is on a prescription diet, but yorkies are small, and he takes Denosyl SD4 daily. He is managed very well on this regimen, and it's really very simple. He doesn't require a lot of "special" care. He plays and does everything my other yorkies do. I do have bloodwork run annually, just to see where he is, but that's about it. Good luck, Juliet
bailey12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 11:59 AM   #8
Donating YT 1000 Club Member
 
Cookie2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,568
Default

What symptoms is your furbaby having? Wait for the results.The bile acid results will NOT tell you which type of shunt your baby has it will only show levels of Bile acid. My dog had some mild symptoms but we had him tested after a year so Icould not get back partial refund or return him. Returning was not an option for me anyway. Most doggy parents are too attached to their pets to just return them.My dog was diagnosed with MVD and it's very treatable with a low protein dogfood.Some will do well just on the low protein diet and some may require the low protein food plus meds that you mix in with the food like Marin and or Denosyl. The surgery for my dog was over $1,300 .The liver was checked and looked very healthy and no shunt was found instead it's another form of liver shunt but its microscopic and shows up in the biopsy taken of the liver.
My dog has not had any other episode or problems since,thank God.
He only had one episode ever and that was scary enough because I thought he was going to die.He was lifeless for a few minutes and blood was taken again at a Emergency Hospital and that's when we were told that his food was too high in protein and basically the toxins had spread in his blood so thats why he passed out....This is when I decided to get the exploratory surgery done.

Find out first what type of shunt if any your pet has and take it from there. If it's the type that can't be fixed through surgery or through diet ,then I'd say you have a very difficult choice to make. I wish your furbaby the very best and please keep us posted when you get the results. There are many people here that have dealt with serious liver shunt problems and they may give you more detailed advice.

Gennel
Cookie
Lola
Angel
Cookie2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 12:02 PM   #9
Donating YT 1000 Club Member
 
Cookie2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,568
Default

Her Bile Acid results sound a lot like Cookie's and it turned out it was MVD and not hepatic Liver Shunt. The only way to find out if she does or doesnt have it is with the surgery.Dr Tobias is the best as far as I've heard from everyone...


Gennel
Cookie2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 12:07 PM   #10
TLC
Slave to My Rug-Rats
Donating Member
 
TLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vickie1723 View Post
I just want to thank all of you who responded to my question about Liver Shunts. We have the results of Penny's bile acid test - her pre-meal level was 22.8 (the vet said normal levels should be less than 10); and her post-meal level was 210.3 (normal levels should be less than 20). The vet called late last night with the results. Penny is back at home with us now, is eating well - Science Diet L/D, taking her medication, and seems to have a little more energy. At this point, we are still trying to decide what to do - take the emotional and financial risk of getting Penny surgery, or return her to the breeder to possibly never have the surgery that may save her life. Our vet has contacted Dr. Tobias at the University of Tennessee, but we have to decide if that is the best option for Penny and for us. There are just so many what ifs at this point. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers, as this is a very difficult time for us all.

Thanks,
Vickie

I think that is GREAT that your Vet is contacting Dr. Tobias, she would be my first choice. With a BAT of 210 she most likely has liver issues, wether it be Shunt or MVD - but this is NOT a death sentence, and there are plenty of us here that are going through it with our dogs too.

I must say though, I really DO NOT advise *returning* her to your breeder. I honestly feel that she will either be PTS or she will go untreated and have bad things happen to her.

*IF* you honestly do not think you will be able to provide the life that she deserves, than I suggest you surrender her to a Yorkie Rescue, where they will do what is needed to save her life and then place her in a home where she will be well taken care of.

Now, if she were mine, I would take the breeder up on the offer of a refund, and I would get her over to Dr. Tobias ASAP and get started on the next steps.

Please keep us posted. Also join the Yahoo Group, there are so many good people over there going through this as well.
__________________
Adopt Donate Foster
www.yorkie911rescue.com
TLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 02:56 PM   #11
YorkieTalk Newbie!
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5
Default Penny - Surgery

After talking again today with the University of Tennessee, we have decided to take Penny there and find out what is going on. We have an appointment scheduled for Thursday, May 29. If she qualifies for surgery, then it will be performed on Friday. At least we will know one way or the other. I will let everyone know how it goes. Thanks for the information and your support.

Vickie
Vickie1723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 03:22 PM   #12
TLC
Slave to My Rug-Rats
Donating Member
 
TLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 7,247
Love

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vickie1723 View Post
After talking again today with the University of Tennessee, we have decided to take Penny there and find out what is going on. We have an appointment scheduled for Thursday, May 29. If she qualifies for surgery, then it will be performed on Friday. At least we will know one way or the other. I will let everyone know how it goes. Thanks for the information and your support.

Vickie
OMG I have tears running down my face. You are very good people, THANK YOU for wanting to help save her life, in my heart I know that you are doing the right thing.

She is in my constant prayers. Please keep us posted
__________________
Adopt Donate Foster
www.yorkie911rescue.com
TLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 03:29 PM   #13
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker
 
Oscar's Mummy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vickie1723 View Post
I just want to thank all of you who responded to my question about Liver Shunts. We have the results of Penny's bile acid test - her pre-meal level was 22.8 (the vet said normal levels should be less than 10); and her post-meal level was 210.3 (normal levels should be less than 20). The vet called late last night with the results. Penny is back at home with us now, is eating well - Science Diet L/D, taking her medication, and seems to have a little more energy. At this point, we are still trying to decide what to do - take the emotional and financial risk of getting Penny surgery, or return her to the breeder to possibly never have the surgery that may save her life. Our vet has contacted Dr. Tobias at the University of Tennessee, but we have to decide if that is the best option for Penny and for us. There are just so many what ifs at this point. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers, as this is a very difficult time for us all.

Thanks,
Vickie

I'm going through the same thing right now with my little Ruthie — trying to decide what's right for her. At this point, I'm leaning towards more testing to try to pinpoint exactly what it is. It's a difficult decision to have to make. Ruthie is 2, so I really thought that we were 'in the clear' as far as liver shunts, etc. and she had shown no clear symptoms. Just reared its ugly head suddenly. And it doesn't help when I've got vets advising me to do surgery and her breeder strongly advising me not to. I certainly do understand what you're going through — it's difficult to even consider giving up a puppy regardless of the circumstance and regardless of how long they've been with you. I was attached to Ruthie from day one as I'm sure you have been to your little one. Just remember that no decision is the wrong decision so long as you do what you believe to be right for both you AND your pet.

Good luck with Penny - keep us updated
__________________
Janice, Oscar and Baby Ruth
"The more people I meet, the more I love my dog."
Oscar's Mummy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 03:30 PM   #14
Donating YT 30K Club Member
 
Patti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 35,509
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Sorry I am just seeing this. I am so glad you are taking her to Tenn. I have one with mild MVD and her BA's were 0/92 and she does not require treatment. I will say some prayers that your baby can be helped and live a normal life.
__________________
Cali Pixie Roxie : RIP Nikki; RIP Maya;RIP my sweet Dixie girl 1/17/08
http://callipuppyscastle.bravehost.com/index.html
Patti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2008, 06:26 AM   #15
YorkieTalk Newbie!
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5
Default The outcome of Penny's liver shunt surgery

Hi everyone - I just wanted to let you know that we took Penny to UT for her surgery, which was performed on Friday. Everything went well during surgery, it was a liver shunt. They said her liver was very small. They were able to spay her while she was there. Her temperature stayed constant throughout the surgery and she came out of the anesthesia quickly. We received updates every few hours. They said Penny did amazingly great. We received the news that Penny had a heart attack while in recovery. They were cleaning out her IV tube which had started to leak some fluids - this is a normal procedure. Penny did not make it. We are devastated, as our lives were all about Penny. It is just so sad that she did so well in surgery and they expected her to come home to us and be healthy. I just wanted to let everyone know. We will miss her and maybe one day we will get another Yorkie.

Vickie
Vickie1723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




Google
 

SHOP NOW: Amazon :: eBay :: Buy.com :: Newegg :: PetStore :: Petco :: PetSmart


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167