Need Experienced Opinion, Please! - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Lolasmom1211 · 04-28-2008, 05:35 PM

I brought Lola home about 1 month ago when she was 12 weeks old. She had a bad hypoglycemic episode the first weekend we had her and had to spend 3 nights at the emergency hospital. She has been perfect since then, although she is still very small - 1.5 lbs. She is full of energy and sleeps through the night and is a bundle of joy. She is a very picky eater and will only eat baby food (chicken) if I hand feed her, 3 times / day. I have tried to introduce kibbles and even tried to introduce several kinds of canned food mixed in but NO interest at all. This is fine for now, I feel good that she is eating about 3 jars / food every 2 days. My question is that while I am feeding her and shortly after, she shivers a little bit, but stops after eating. I have seen some posts about liver disease and shaking and now this has me a little concerned. She has no other symptoms, but while at the hospital they mentioned that down the road we may want to have her tested for this liver shunt since her blood sugar was so hard to regulate. They could not do it at the time because they could not get enough blood. Her ammonia test was normal. It has been 3 weeks with no problems. Any opinions on this shaking while she eats? Thanks - sorry for the long winded message!

SassyAnn101 · 04-28-2008, 06:47 PM

Hi I am new to Yorkie Talk. I have been logging on and reading since I lost my baby Gizmo on Feb 1st due to a liver shunt. He would have been four years old in June. The way you describe your baby was exactly how Gizmo was as a puppy. He only ate Chicken baby food, Chicken and Rice, or Chicken Hot Dogs. He shook after eating, and his skin was very dry and flaky. I could not keep his blood sugar regulated either. After my experience losing my precious little baby. I would have her tested ASAP. If there is a shunt and it is found early there are more options and a better chance of a recovery because there is less time for damage to the liver. I hope this has helped.

Lolasmom1211 · 04-28-2008, 07:21 PM

I am so sorry to hear about your Gizmo. Did you lose him to liver disease? Did you have the surgery? How long after he ate did he shake? Lola only shakes while I am feeding her and I would like to think it is because she would rather be on the floor running and playing, but after reading others and hearing your story, I am a little more worried. Did your little one have any other symptoms, such as "pushing his head", or hypoglycemic problems? We haven't had a problem with her blood sugar since that first weekend and she also had giardia, worms and cocidia..so I am hoping we turned the corner. I really appreciate your reply and any other insight you can give is greatly appreciated. My vet doesn't want to do the test for another month or so because she is so small, but waiting is driving me crazy. Thanks.

Lolasmom1211 · 04-28-2008, 07:57 PM

I'm sorry, I just reread your message and saw that you said you lost him to liver shunt....was he not diagnosed before? Once again, I so sorry to hear about your loss. I know it must have been really hard. They are such precious little babies.
I am so new to this, and I know nothing about what I need to do next. Thanks for your help.

Yorkieluv · 04-28-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lolasmom1211

I brought Lola home about 1 month ago when she was 12 weeks old. She had a bad hypoglycemic episode the first weekend we had her and had to spend 3 nights at the emergency hospital. She has been perfect since then, although she is still very small - 1.5 lbs. She is full of energy and sleeps through the night and is a bundle of joy. She is a very picky eater and will only eat baby food (chicken) if I hand feed her, 3 times / day. I have tried to introduce kibbles and even tried to introduce several kinds of canned food mixed in but NO interest at all. This is fine for now, I feel good that she is eating about 3 jars / food every 2 days. My question is that while I am feeding her and shortly after, she shivers a little bit, but stops after eating. I have seen some posts about liver disease and shaking and now this has me a little concerned. She has no other symptoms, but while at the hospital they mentioned that down the road we may want to have her tested for this liver shunt since her blood sugar was so hard to regulate. They could not do it at the time because they could not get enough blood. Her ammonia test was normal. It has been 3 weeks with no problems. Any opinions on this shaking while she eats? Thanks - sorry for the long winded message!

My yorkie has liver disease and he had those same symptoms as a pup. He had coccidia as well just like your dog and hypoglycemia like you wouldn't believe. The truth is that the symptoms can range from being a "picky eater" to not being able to keep blood sugar levels normal to shaking to seizures.
My yorkie was the exact same way when he was a pup. We got him at 12-13 weeks of age, and we could not get him to eat anything. We homecooked for a long time and hand fed him, force fed him when he refused all food and ended up feeding baby food too because that's all he could tolerate.
Please don't ignore these symptoms and pass them off as "picky" eating. Dogs who do have liver problems are picky because food makes them feel sick. That's why your dog might try one canned food at one meal and refuse it the next or same goes for dry foods or any food for that matter.
Picky eating and inappetance ARE symptoms.
I would get the bile acid test done for peace of mind.
If you have any questions at all, please ask

katelin · 04-28-2008, 08:37 PM

I know you want to have the tests done asap, but while you are waiting for her to gain a little strength and weight, does your vet suggest any special diet in case it is a liver problem? I'd try that while you are waiting for the testing.

Lolasmom1211 · 04-29-2008, 05:07 AM

The last time we were at the vet's (3 weeks ago), she thought Lola was doing so well - her blood sugar was fine and no other symptoms, that we could put our fears about the liver shunt on the "back burner". Lola is very active and has no other symptoms except that she only will eat baby food and occasional shivers when I feed her - and I have to hand feed her every meal. It is not that she cannot tolerate or gets tired of any other food, she will not even try it...no matter what I try or how hard I coax or try to trick her. I have just been happy that she has been increasing the amount of baby food she is eating. But then I had read about the shivering or shaking while eating and the pickiness and it has me worried all over again! Can these be the only symptoms? Should I push the vet to do the tests sooner? Any advice is certainly welcome because I have no experience with this. Thank you all very much.

Yorkie Luv of 3 · 04-29-2008, 05:16 AM

Do you give your baby NutriCal daily? my Cricket was 16 oz @ 12 weeks when i brought her home,, and I gave her NutriCal 3 times daily for months,, and at least once daily for her first full year,i believe it saved her several times
Best of luck with your baby!

jeanietoo · 04-29-2008, 01:43 PM

A diet of baby food meat is certainly not balanced and if nothing else will result eventually in malnitrition. Have you tried grinding up a good quality kibble and mixing it with the baby food? Let it sit about 5 minutes and hand feed her if necessary. This may work til you are able to have her tested if testing is necessary.

katelin · 04-29-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanietoo

A diet of baby food meat is certainly not balanced and if nothing else will result eventually in malnitrition. Have you tried grinding up a good quality kibble and mixing it with the baby food? Let it sit about 5 minutes and hand feed her if necessary. This may work til you are able to have her tested if testing is necessary.

great idea. I put my puppy's kibble in the blender until it is powdery. They ate it dry, but their mom ate it mixed with other things. Its a good way to get a little more balance in the diet.

Patti · 04-29-2008, 02:50 PM

My Cali has a very mild liver shunt that was found after testing and a liver biopsy. I would have the test done just to make sure. Cali was an extremely picky eater and had 3 Hypoglycemic episodes that required er stays. But her LS is so mild she doesn't need any treatment other than I watch her protein intake. But the vets always take it into consideration when treating her for any other problems. Cali seemed to outgrow the epsiodes at about 8 months, grew to 5.5 lbs and is a little chow hound. Hopefully your baby will be fine.

SassyAnn101 · 04-29-2008, 03:38 PM

Gizmo was almost a year old when a vet suggested I have the test done becasue his liver looked small on an X ray, but his regular vet told me that his symptoms were not severe enough to be a liver shunt baby. His symptoms were shaking, staggering, picky eater, very dry and flaky skin, and failure to gain weight. He had no head pressing or seizures as a puppy. He had two years with few episodes of shaking and staggering and I had learned how to get him through those episodes. He did gain some weight and was up to 5lbs. I thought he was over these puppy problems and would be fine, but in November he started getting sick again, but this time he couldnt recover. I agree with the previous posts. I would get her on a L/S diet (just in case) and have her tested ASAP. I hope everything works out for you and your precious little girl.

Lolasmom1211 · 04-29-2008, 06:42 PM

We have an appointment at the vet on Thursday. I will definitely follow up on all suggestions and see what we can find out. How is the bile acid test done? How long until you get the results back? Can they do the surgery on a puppy tis small (1.5 lb)? I REALLY appreciate all of the caring and helpful messages that you all have sent. Thank you.

katelin · 04-29-2008, 07:48 PM

Bile acid test is done fasting. No food for several hours before the test, then blood is drawn, then food given and more blood drawn. Try to have the test done first thing in the morning so he doesn't have to go all night and all day without food.

Good luck.

Ladymom · 04-29-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katelin

Bile acid test is done fasting. No food for several hours before the test, then blood is drawn, then food given and more blood drawn. Try to have the test done first thing in the morning so he doesn't have to go all night and all day without food.

Good luck.

Dr. Center no longer recommends fasting before a bile acids test. This is from page 5 of the handout at her seminars:

7. Random "Fasting" Bile Acids ARE NOT reliable for RULING OUT liver dysfunction or abnormal portal circulation. Rather, you need PAIRED SAMPLES AROUND A MEAL. We no longer collect 12-hr fasting bile acids but instead collect a bile acid sample before a meal (pre-meal) and 2 hours after a meal (post-meal or postprandial)." (all emphasis was added by Dr. Center, not me)

A bile acids test should be done on all Yorkie puppies before they ever go to their new homes according to Dr. Center because liver shunts are so prevalent in the breed. Did you know that Yorkies are 36 times more likely to have a liver shunt than all other breeds combined?

No vet should ever suggest putting an inexpensive and non-invasive BAT test on the back burner when a Yorkie puppy has symptoms like yours does IMO.

04-28-2008, 05:35 PM	#1
Lolasmom1211 Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 664	Need Experienced Opinion, Please! I brought Lola home about 1 month ago when she was 12 weeks old. She had a bad hypoglycemic episode the first weekend we had her and had to spend 3 nights at the emergency hospital. She has been perfect since then, although she is still very small - 1.5 lbs. She is full of energy and sleeps through the night and is a bundle of joy. She is a very picky eater and will only eat baby food (chicken) if I hand feed her, 3 times / day. I have tried to introduce kibbles and even tried to introduce several kinds of canned food mixed in but NO interest at all. This is fine for now, I feel good that she is eating about 3 jars / food every 2 days. My question is that while I am feeding her and shortly after, she shivers a little bit, but stops after eating. I have seen some posts about liver disease and shaking and now this has me a little concerned. She has no other symptoms, but while at the hospital they mentioned that down the road we may want to have her tested for this liver shunt since her blood sugar was so hard to regulate. They could not do it at the time because they could not get enough blood. Her ammonia test was normal. It has been 3 weeks with no problems. Any opinions on this shaking while she eats? Thanks - sorry for the long winded message!

04-28-2008, 08:37 PM	#6
katelin YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,778	I know you want to have the tests done asap, but while you are waiting for her to gain a little strength and weight, does your vet suggest any special diet in case it is a liver problem? I'd try that while you are waiting for the testing. __________________ *LaVail Yorkshire Terriers*

04-29-2008, 05:16 AM	#8
Yorkie Luv of 3 Ayla now makes it 4!!! Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Louisiana(home) & Texas(work) Posts: 1,711	Do you give your baby NutriCal daily? my Cricket was 16 oz @ 12 weeks when i brought her home,, and I gave her NutriCal 3 times daily for months,, and at least once daily for her first full year,i believe it saved her several times Best of luck with your baby! __________________ Cricket~Proud Petite Pup! Daisy~Proud TeaPot!! & Trixie ~Texas Girl & Ayla~Cherokee Baby! Yorkies!!! What's Not to Love!

04-29-2008, 02:50 PM	#11
Patti Donating YT 30K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 35,509 Blog Entries: 6	My Cali has a very mild liver shunt that was found after testing and a liver biopsy. I would have the test done just to make sure. Cali was an extremely picky eater and had 3 Hypoglycemic episodes that required er stays. But her LS is so mild she doesn't need any treatment other than I watch her protein intake. But the vets always take it into consideration when treating her for any other problems. Cali seemed to outgrow the epsiodes at about 8 months, grew to 5.5 lbs and is a little chow hound. Hopefully your baby will be fine. __________________ Cali Pixie Roxie : RIP Nikki; RIP Maya;RIP my sweet Dixie girl 1/17/08 http://callipuppyscastle.bravehost.com/index.html

04-29-2008, 07:48 PM	#14
katelin YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,778	Bile acid test is done fasting. No food for several hours before the test, then blood is drawn, then food given and more blood drawn. Try to have the test done first thing in the morning so he doesn't have to go all night and all day without food. Good luck. __________________ *LaVail Yorkshire Terriers*

04-28-2008, 06:47 PM	#2
SassyAnn101 Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 647	Hi I am new to Yorkie Talk. I have been logging on and reading since I lost my baby Gizmo on Feb 1st due to a liver shunt. He would have been four years old in June. The way you describe your baby was exactly how Gizmo was as a puppy. He only ate Chicken baby food, Chicken and Rice, or Chicken Hot Dogs. He shook after eating, and his skin was very dry and flaky. I could not keep his blood sugar regulated either. After my experience losing my precious little baby. I would have her tested ASAP. If there is a shunt and it is found early there are more options and a better chance of a recovery because there is less time for damage to the liver. I hope this has helped.

04-28-2008, 07:21 PM	#3
Lolasmom1211 Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 664	I am so sorry to hear about your Gizmo. Did you lose him to liver disease? Did you have the surgery? How long after he ate did he shake? Lola only shakes while I am feeding her and I would like to think it is because she would rather be on the floor running and playing, but after reading others and hearing your story, I am a little more worried. Did your little one have any other symptoms, such as "pushing his head", or hypoglycemic problems? We haven't had a problem with her blood sugar since that first weekend and she also had giardia, worms and cocidia..so I am hoping we turned the corner. I really appreciate your reply and any other insight you can give is greatly appreciated. My vet doesn't want to do the test for another month or so because she is so small, but waiting is driving me crazy. Thanks.

04-28-2008, 07:57 PM	#4
Lolasmom1211 Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 664	I'm sorry, I just reread your message and saw that you said you lost him to liver shunt....was he not diagnosed before? Once again, I so sorry to hear about your loss. I know it must have been really hard. They are such precious little babies. I am so new to this, and I know nothing about what I need to do next. Thanks for your help.

04-29-2008, 05:07 AM	#7
Lolasmom1211 Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 664	The last time we were at the vet's (3 weeks ago), she thought Lola was doing so well - her blood sugar was fine and no other symptoms, that we could put our fears about the liver shunt on the "back burner". Lola is very active and has no other symptoms except that she only will eat baby food and occasional shivers when I feed her - and I have to hand feed her every meal. It is not that she cannot tolerate or gets tired of any other food, she will not even try it...no matter what I try or how hard I coax or try to trick her. I have just been happy that she has been increasing the amount of baby food she is eating. But then I had read about the shivering or shaking while eating and the pickiness and it has me worried all over again! Can these be the only symptoms? Should I push the vet to do the tests sooner? Any advice is certainly welcome because I have no experience with this. Thank you all very much.

04-29-2008, 01:43 PM	#9
jeanietoo YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 783	A diet of baby food meat is certainly not balanced and if nothing else will result eventually in malnitrition. Have you tried grinding up a good quality kibble and mixing it with the baby food? Let it sit about 5 minutes and hand feed her if necessary. This may work til you are able to have her tested if testing is necessary.

04-29-2008, 03:38 PM	#12
SassyAnn101 Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 647	Gizmo was almost a year old when a vet suggested I have the test done becasue his liver looked small on an X ray, but his regular vet told me that his symptoms were not severe enough to be a liver shunt baby. His symptoms were shaking, staggering, picky eater, very dry and flaky skin, and failure to gain weight. He had no head pressing or seizures as a puppy. He had two years with few episodes of shaking and staggering and I had learned how to get him through those episodes. He did gain some weight and was up to 5lbs. I thought he was over these puppy problems and would be fine, but in November he started getting sick again, but this time he couldnt recover. I agree with the previous posts. I would get her on a L/S diet (just in case) and have her tested ASAP. I hope everything works out for you and your precious little girl.

04-29-2008, 06:42 PM	#13
Lolasmom1211 Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 664	We have an appointment at the vet on Thursday. I will definitely follow up on all suggestions and see what we can find out. How is the bile acid test done? How long until you get the results back? Can they do the surgery on a puppy tis small (1.5 lb)? I REALLY appreciate all of the caring and helpful messages that you all have sent. Thank you.