neurological issue....liver shunt - YorkieTalk.com Forums

scrappymomma · 02-20-2008, 04:50 PM

I have a little girl with an irrepairable shunt. She is 15 months old and today at the vets weighed in at 4lbs 1 oz. She has been diagnosed for about 6 months now and is on RC 14 food, lactulose, marin and denosyl. For the past few months she has been doing great. Today she is not doing so good and I am very worried. She had a seizure earlier and is pretty lathargic and weak. Her head kinda shakes and now that is is walking again she is walking kinda sidewards. Earlier she couldnt even stand without collapsing. The vet did put fluids under her skin because she was dehydratedwhich I dont understand, she hasnt been vomiting or diarrhea. The vet said to syringe her pedialyte and try to get her to eat. Gosh I am just so worried about this baby. Is there anything I can do to help her or something that Im doing wrong? She hasnt urinated in almost 5 hours also. Please help with any advise.

scrappymomma · 02-20-2008, 04:59 PM

also how much pedialyte should I be giving her? Ive been giving her 2 cc's per hr.

Belindtch · 02-20-2008, 05:04 PM

I am so sorry to hear that your little girl is not doing well. Hopefully, this is just a temporary thing and she will be better soon. You are both in our thoughts and prayers. I know you are worried about her. It is always so scary when things do not go well for our little ones. Alyssa and Emmy send your little girl yorkie hugs and kisses. We all wish her the best in days to come. Hopefully, she will get everything under control and not be in constant pain. Prayers being sent from us to you.

Ellie May · 02-20-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrappymomma

I have a little girl with an irrepairable shunt. She is 15 months old and today at the vets weighed in at 4lbs 1 oz. She has been diagnosed for about 6 months now and is on RC 14 food, lactulose, marin and denosyl. For the past few months she has been doing great. Today she is not doing so good and I am very worried. She had a seizure earlier and is pretty lathargic and weak. Her head kinda shakes and now that is is walking again she is walking kinda sidewards. Earlier she couldnt even stand without collapsing. The vet did put fluids under her skin because she was dehydratedwhich I dont understand, she hasnt been vomiting or diarrhea. The vet said to syringe her pedialyte and try to get her to eat. Gosh I am just so worried about this baby. Is there anything I can do to help her or something that Im doing wrong? She hasnt urinated in almost 5 hours also. Please help with any advise.

Are you sure she didn't get a piece of something she shouldn't have?
I would be so worried but if it is just one bad day, then maybe it is okay. If it were to go on I would definately change her diet. I know RC 14 is one of the best for this but sometimes it just doesn't cut it.
I have no idea why the fluids if she wasn't dehydrated.
Have you tried some of the techniques like giving part of a juiced zuccini to clease the liver?

Poor girl...I'm sorry.

MICKEYK · 02-20-2008, 05:39 PM

aww sorry to hear about your little girl sending prayers her way

RMKC · 02-20-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrappymomma

I have a little girl with an irrepairable shunt. She is 15 months old and today at the vets weighed in at 4lbs 1 oz. She has been diagnosed for about 6 months now and is on RC 14 food, lactulose, marin and denosyl. For the past few months she has been doing great. Today she is not doing so good and I am very worried. She had a seizure earlier and is pretty lathargic and weak. Her head kinda shakes and now that is is walking again she is walking kinda sidewards. Earlier she couldnt even stand without collapsing. The vet did put fluids under her skin because she was dehydratedwhich I dont understand, she hasnt been vomiting or diarrhea. The vet said to syringe her pedialyte and try to get her to eat. Gosh I am just so worried about this baby. Is there anything I can do to help her or something that Im doing wrong? She hasnt urinated in almost 5 hours also. Please help with any advise.

OMG Kelly i am so sorry for you and your little girl, i know how much you love her, wish i could help you...hope she feels better tomorro, will try to call you. Sending you hugs
Call me if you want to talk !

scrappymomma · 02-20-2008, 06:16 PM

thanks everyone Im trying my best to stay positive.

Ellie May... the vet said she was dehydrated and gave her the fluids. I just dont understand how she did get dehydrated without vomiting and/or diarrhea. Do you think I can syringe the juices zucchini? She will not drink on her own unfortunately. She just wants to lay and either stare or sleep. It kills me to see her this way.

LunasMomma · 02-20-2008, 06:41 PM

I don't have any advice, but I can pray

I hope it's not serious

Hugs!!

Ellie May · 02-20-2008, 07:04 PM

Yorkieluv gives Miko juiced zuccini or celery quite often. You could talk to her about that. If she isn't drinking though, she needs water before zuccini... PediaSure is usually recommended above PediaLyte because it has more vitamins in it.

Are you a member of the yahoo liver shunt group?
How much does she weigh?

scrappymomma · 02-20-2008, 08:17 PM

Since she hasnt eaten today should and could I give her nutri drops or should I give her nutrical? Sissy is 4 lbs. We are on the LS group, Im going there next. Thanks again!!

Yorkieluv · 02-20-2008, 08:35 PM

I just want to let you know that I'm typing some info that will help you, but it will take me a few minutes...

Yorkieluv · 02-20-2008, 08:50 PM

Hi scrappymomma, I'm so sorry that your little girl is so sick...She's dehydrated because RC Hepatic LS 14 is a dry food, and liver compromised dogs *need* water added to their food. That food is excellent for them, but dry foods do not provide nearly enough moisture even if they drink lots of water on the side.

I'm not sure if you free feed or have her on a schedule, but liver compromised dogs should eat on a schedule because they are only allowed to take in certain amounts of protein at a time. She should be fed, at the very least, 4 small meals of RC Hepatic per day with equal parts added to the water. The several small meals help lighten the load on the liver so that it's not processing too much at one time.

How much food would you say she eats in one day? At 4 lbs and the fact that she is symptomatic means that she should be taking in around 3.6 to 4 grams of protein per day until you get her symptoms under control. 1/4 cup of RC Hepatic contains 4 grams of protein, so this would be the max. amt. of protein that she could take for now, but you can add cooked carrots and/or green beans specifically to add some substance to it if you want and if she's hungry for it. A couple of other options include adding seedless watermelon or peeled pieces of apple. Do not add oats, rice, beans, or anything like that. Oats and beans are high in purines and rice is high in manganese.

How many times a day do you give her lactulose? If her dose is 6 ml per day, then it needs to be split up into 2 ml 3x per day instead of 1 or 2 larger doses. This is very important so that she doesn't get stopped up and then have diarrhea and then get stopped up and then get diarrhea again.

Is she having at least 2 bowel movements per day? What is the consistency of her stool? Is it soft or firm?? Her stool should be soft and difficult to pick up , but not diarrhea and not firm. The dosage of lactulose should be adjusted to make the stool this consistency.

Although many people have success with Marin, I do not like to recommend this to dogs who have a history of seizures and hepatic encephalopathy because it does contain liver and yeast which are two high purine foods that should not be given to very sensitive liver compromised dogs, in my opinion. You may find that plain dried herb milk thistle or Hepatosupport are better options for her.

PediaSure or DogSure is recommended for dogs who won't willingly eat so that they get some nutrients and caloric requirements. You might try this.

I have found that when Miko has seizures, it is helpful to hold an ice pack on his mid to lower back area. For some reason this seems to help him a great deal and slow down the seizures to a stop. Some people think it works, some people don't. It has worked for us.

I am not a vet, and I am only providing information that has successfully worked for my yorkie and several other dogs that I have helped.

If you have any questions, please ask.

So sorry for the long post!!

scrappymomma · 02-20-2008, 08:59 PM

Thank you soooooooooooo much for posting! I do give her apples, and various fruits and veggies usually as a treat. Today has just been a awful day here, she hasnt eaten anything and I wanted to give her something for tonight. All I have right now is Nutrical and nutridrops. I can go in the a.m and get something else. She is just so lifeless that I dont think I can go to sleep without giving her something. I have been free feeding her and didnt realize she needed more water. I tried cooking for her Dr. Tobias recipe and she wouldnt touch it. I would love to feed her better than RC but dont know what. Her gums are pink now but very tacky so I know she is still dehydrates, what should I do about that? Thanks again for your help.... I feel like my mind is in a fog.

scrappymomma · 02-20-2008, 09:00 PM

Oh I have dyne also.

scrappymomma · 02-20-2008, 09:02 PM

I just thought of this....her eyes are just staring when shes awake. I try to get her to follow my hand but she doesnt. Do you know what that is about?

02-20-2008, 04:50 PM	#1
scrappymomma Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 690	neurological issue....liver shunt I have a little girl with an irrepairable shunt. She is 15 months old and today at the vets weighed in at 4lbs 1 oz. She has been diagnosed for about 6 months now and is on RC 14 food, lactulose, marin and denosyl. For the past few months she has been doing great. Today she is not doing so good and I am very worried. She had a seizure earlier and is pretty lathargic and weak. Her head kinda shakes and now that is is walking again she is walking kinda sidewards. Earlier she couldnt even stand without collapsing. The vet did put fluids under her skin because she was dehydratedwhich I dont understand, she hasnt been vomiting or diarrhea. The vet said to syringe her pedialyte and try to get her to eat. Gosh I am just so worried about this baby. Is there anything I can do to help her or something that Im doing wrong? She hasnt urinated in almost 5 hours also. Please help with any advise. __________________ ~~Kelly, Roxy, Gracie, Diesel, Sissy & Willow~~ They are not human but do bring out the humanity in all of us. Such is the life of the yorkie.

02-20-2008, 04:59 PM	#2
scrappymomma Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 690	also how much pedialyte should I be giving her? Ive been giving her 2 cc's per hr. __________________ ~~Kelly, Roxy, Gracie, Diesel, Sissy & Willow~~ They are not human but do bring out the humanity in all of us. Such is the life of the yorkie.

02-20-2008, 05:04 PM	#3
Belindtch Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Rossville, Georgia Posts: 722	I am so sorry to hear that your little girl is not doing well. Hopefully, this is just a temporary thing and she will be better soon. You are both in our thoughts and prayers. I know you are worried about her. It is always so scary when things do not go well for our little ones. Alyssa and Emmy send your little girl yorkie hugs and kisses. We all wish her the best in days to come. Hopefully, she will get everything under control and not be in constant pain. Prayers being sent from us to you. __________________ Belinda and my furbabies, Alyssa , Emily Kate , and Lucy Belinda's Doggy Delites Lucy Dexter

02-20-2008, 06:16 PM	#7
scrappymomma Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 690	thanks everyone Im trying my best to stay positive. Ellie May... the vet said she was dehydrated and gave her the fluids. I just dont understand how she did get dehydrated without vomiting and/or diarrhea. Do you think I can syringe the juices zucchini? She will not drink on her own unfortunately. She just wants to lay and either stare or sleep. It kills me to see her this way. __________________ ~~Kelly, Roxy, Gracie, Diesel, Sissy & Willow~~ They are not human but do bring out the humanity in all of us. Such is the life of the yorkie.

02-20-2008, 06:41 PM	#8
LunasMomma Izzy's Momma Too! Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Stuart, Florida Posts: 4,683	I don't have any advice, but I can pray I hope it's not serious Hugs!! __________________ Card Carrying Member of the Crazy AND Pink Clubs

02-20-2008, 05:39 PM	#5
MICKEYK BANNED! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: MI Posts: 2,052	aww sorry to hear about your little girl sending prayers her way

02-20-2008, 07:04 PM	#9
Ellie May YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 5,624	Yorkieluv gives Miko juiced zuccini or celery quite often. You could talk to her about that. If she isn't drinking though, she needs water before zuccini... PediaSure is usually recommended above PediaLyte because it has more vitamins in it. Are you a member of the yahoo liver shunt group? How much does she weigh? __________________ Crystal and Ellie May

02-20-2008, 08:17 PM	#10
scrappymomma Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 690	Since she hasnt eaten today should and could I give her nutri drops or should I give her nutrical? Sissy is 4 lbs. We are on the LS group, Im going there next. Thanks again!! __________________ ~~Kelly, Roxy, Gracie, Diesel, Sissy & Willow~~ They are not human but do bring out the humanity in all of us. Such is the life of the yorkie.

02-20-2008, 08:35 PM	#11
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,745	I just want to let you know that I'm typing some info that will help you, but it will take me a few minutes... __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

02-20-2008, 08:50 PM	#12
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,745	Hi scrappymomma, I'm so sorry that your little girl is so sick...She's dehydrated because RC Hepatic LS 14 is a dry food, and liver compromised dogs need water added to their food. That food is excellent for them, but dry foods do not provide nearly enough moisture even if they drink lots of water on the side. I'm not sure if you free feed or have her on a schedule, but liver compromised dogs should eat on a schedule because they are only allowed to take in certain amounts of protein at a time. She should be fed, at the very least, 4 small meals of RC Hepatic per day with equal parts added to the water. The several small meals help lighten the load on the liver so that it's not processing too much at one time. How much food would you say she eats in one day? At 4 lbs and the fact that she is symptomatic means that she should be taking in around 3.6 to 4 grams of protein per day until you get her symptoms under control. 1/4 cup of RC Hepatic contains 4 grams of protein, so this would be the max. amt. of protein that she could take for now, but you can add cooked carrots and/or green beans specifically to add some substance to it if you want and if she's hungry for it. A couple of other options include adding seedless watermelon or peeled pieces of apple. Do not add oats, rice, beans, or anything like that. Oats and beans are high in purines and rice is high in manganese. How many times a day do you give her lactulose? If her dose is 6 ml per day, then it needs to be split up into 2 ml 3x per day instead of 1 or 2 larger doses. This is very important so that she doesn't get stopped up and then have diarrhea and then get stopped up and then get diarrhea again. Is she having at least 2 bowel movements per day? What is the consistency of her stool? Is it soft or firm?? Her stool should be soft and difficult to pick up , but not diarrhea and not firm. The dosage of lactulose should be adjusted to make the stool this consistency. Although many people have success with Marin, I do not like to recommend this to dogs who have a history of seizures and hepatic encephalopathy because it does contain liver and yeast which are two high purine foods that should not be given to very sensitive liver compromised dogs, in my opinion. You may find that plain dried herb milk thistle or Hepatosupport are better options for her. PediaSure or DogSure is recommended for dogs who won't willingly eat so that they get some nutrients and caloric requirements. You might try this. I have found that when Miko has seizures, it is helpful to hold an ice pack on his mid to lower back area. For some reason this seems to help him a great deal and slow down the seizures to a stop. Some people think it works, some people don't. It has worked for us. I am not a vet, and I am only providing information that has successfully worked for my yorkie and several other dogs that I have helped. If you have any questions, please ask. So sorry for the long post!! __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

02-20-2008, 08:59 PM	#13
scrappymomma Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 690	Thank you soooooooooooo much for posting! I do give her apples, and various fruits and veggies usually as a treat. Today has just been a awful day here, she hasnt eaten anything and I wanted to give her something for tonight. All I have right now is Nutrical and nutridrops. I can go in the a.m and get something else. She is just so lifeless that I dont think I can go to sleep without giving her something. I have been free feeding her and didnt realize she needed more water. I tried cooking for her Dr. Tobias recipe and she wouldnt touch it. I would love to feed her better than RC but dont know what. Her gums are pink now but very tacky so I know she is still dehydrates, what should I do about that? Thanks again for your help.... I feel like my mind is in a fog. __________________ ~~Kelly, Roxy, Gracie, Diesel, Sissy & Willow~~ They are not human but do bring out the humanity in all of us. Such is the life of the yorkie.

02-20-2008, 09:00 PM	#14
scrappymomma Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 690	Oh I have dyne also. __________________ ~~Kelly, Roxy, Gracie, Diesel, Sissy & Willow~~ They are not human but do bring out the humanity in all of us. Such is the life of the yorkie.

02-20-2008, 09:02 PM	#15
scrappymomma Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 690	I just thought of this....her eyes are just staring when shes awake. I try to get her to follow my hand but she doesnt. Do you know what that is about? __________________ ~~Kelly, Roxy, Gracie, Diesel, Sissy & Willow~~ They are not human but do bring out the humanity in all of us. Such is the life of the yorkie.