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Old 11-19-2008, 06:30 PM   #1
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Default Automobile-CEOs Take $20,000 Flights (but want bailout)

Ya know...this world is crazy...it's just OFF ITS ROCKER. Or, is it just me?

The CEOs of the automobile industry flew into Washington to ask for the auto-industry bail out -- each CEO on their company's private jet. The cost for each flight? About $20,000.

When asked why (when they STILL could've arrived in time for the meeting) they didn't take a coach flight (~$200) or a first class flight (~$800) -- it was pretty much no comment.

How many jobs could be saved just by them giving up a freakin' private jet?

The auto industry is positively crucial to the US economy, but if we're going to do another bail out to save the AVERAGE person's livelihood, can we please have some strings attached like: fire the CEOs, no private jets, no 68-Million-Dollar annual bonus for CEOs, no outrageous luxury "business" trips....ya know?

This stuff just makes me feel so powerless lately.... okay, /rant.
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:34 PM   #2
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Actually if those CEO's gave up just a teensy portion of their salaries...it would help.

I do understand if the big 3 go under....all the jobs that will be affected and the businesses...including my own.

I just don't know when this bailout stuff is gonna stop...

Actually the auto makers don't have to get a bail out...they could file for reorganization...
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:36 PM   #3
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If they go under, it serves them right.

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Actually if those CEO's gave up just a teensy portion of their salaries...it would help..
That's what I was thinking!
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:45 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by bchgirl View Post
Actually if those CEO's gave up just a teensy portion of their salaries...it would help.

I do understand if the big 3 go under....all the jobs that will be affected and the businesses...including my own.

I just don't know when this bailout stuff is gonna stop...

Actually the auto makers don't have to get a bail out...they could file for reorganization...
The salaries and bonuses are just insane, as in many industries - it just makes me *crazy*.

I don't know either when the bail out stuff will stop, and it gets to the "what happened to capitalism?" stuff - and "hey, it's a free market!" -- but it really would be devastating to our economy in a huge way, if the auto-industry crumbles.

Do you think re-org is a better avenue? What would that entail, do you think?
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:51 PM   #5
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Well if they file what....chapter 11 reorganization...it's up to the company to pull itself out of this mess.

The bailout means....WE get too.

The companies going under would be castrophobic...
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom View Post
Ya know...this world is crazy...it's just OFF ITS ROCKER. Or, is it just me?

The CEOs of the automobile industry flew into Washington to ask for the auto-industry bail out -- each CEO on their company's private jet. The cost for each flight? About $20,000.

When asked why (when they STILL could've arrived in time for the meeting) they didn't take a coach flight (~$200) or a first class flight (~$800) -- it was pretty much no comment.

How many jobs could be saved just by them giving up a freakin' private jet?

The auto industry is positively crucial to the US economy, but if we're going to do another bail out to save the AVERAGE person's livelihood, can we please have some strings attached like: fire the CEOs, no private jets, no 68-Million-Dollar annual bonus for CEOs, no outrageous luxury "business" trips....ya know?

This stuff just makes me feel so powerless lately.... okay, /rant.
Human nature is such that spending "other people's money" is so intoxicating it causes a disconnect with reality. When any entity has the ability to confiscate and use your resources against you...you are powerless.

The next time a thief breaks into my house to rob me I'm going to let him...as long as he promises me something from my neighbors house later.
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchgirl View Post
Actually if those CEO's gave up just a teensy portion of their salaries...it would help.

I do understand if the big 3 go under....all the jobs that will be affected and the businesses...including my own.

I just don't know when this bailout stuff is gonna stop...

Actually the auto makers don't have to get a bail out...they could file for reorganization...
The CEO's salary isn't the problem, although I agree that if you run your company into the ground you shouldn't get a big bonus. A size eleven to the glutes is more appropriate.

The problem is they have signed work agreements with unions that gave pension and health insurance to retirees that are not sustainable in todays economy. When GM sells a car the cost of retirees pension and healthcare coverage is greater than the cost of steel to build the car. This is just for people no longer working, they still have to pay the people working today.

It's a tough situation because the retired worker has been given a promise...but the company goes under the promise ends. If the promise is honored...the company goes under. The 25 billion $ bailout is little solace for an industry losing 50 billion per month. It's just a trial balloon to see if the idea will cause outrage from the people.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C C Kent View Post
The CEO's salary isn't the problem, although I agree that if you run your company into the ground you shouldn't get a big bonus. A size eleven to the glutes is more appropriate.

The problem is they have signed work agreements with unions that gave pension and health insurance to retirees that are not sustainable in todays economy. When GM sells a car the cost of retirees pension and healthcare coverage is greater than the cost of steel to build the car. This is just for people no longer working, they still have to pay the people working today.

It's a tough situation because the retired worker has been given a promise...but the company goes under the promise ends. If the promise is honored...the company goes under. The 25 billion $ bailout is little solace for an industry losing 50 billion per month. It's just a trial balloon to see if the idea will cause outrage from the people.
If GM built a car that didn't fall apart they would be fine. If they cared about their customers they would be fine. People are paying more for Toyotas and Hondas because they don't want a disposable car. We can't blame the unions - why didn't GM fly to D.C. to ask for them to help bring down health care costs if it was such a big issue? The bottom line is that GM's business practices are terrible. Their customer service is terrible. They cut so many corners and don't take responsibility for when it costs $3000 in labor to replace $5 seals that they KNEW would fail at 75K miles and didn't care. (One of countless expensive issues I've dealt with in the last 5 years.) I'm the first one to say "buy American" but not if the car is a money pit. Sorry, but I think our next car will be a Toyota.
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:19 PM   #9
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The fact they signed worker agreements for pension and health insurance after retirement is sad, but they won't be the first group to loose these. At one time we were supplied paid insurance by the company after retirement, that is no longer available, he also lost a high percentage of his retirement. Plus you consider the wages lost, our income is much less today than 20 years ago. But they did it and are still flying. It hasn't been easy by no stretch of the imagination but they still have jobs.

I thought it was rather juvenile for the UAW to say they were making no concessions with salaries of 60+ dollars an hour to work on an assembly line. I also didn't understand what I heard about people that are laid off draw like 94% of their salary. And I don't agree with the "union busting remark", sometimes you can't have it all, especially if that's been a part of the mess they are in. And yes, bankruptsy can change union contracts, either the 2 parties figure it out or a judge will do it for them.

It was rediculious for the ceo's to come begging for money in luxury jets, I still haven't figured out what what the security risk is they need protection from.
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:23 PM   #10
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I had a friend who worked for one of the automakers. He didn't work there long, once he found out how much shadiness was going on. People punching out for the day and letting others punch them out. Milking the OT big time. It's no surprise they need help, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.
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Old 11-19-2008, 10:32 PM   #11
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I hope that we dont bail them out. If the company is so stupid and greedy that they run their business off a cliff, then so be it. Due to the greedy Ceo's and upper etchalon and the union that "will not make any concessions", they cant compete with Honda or Toyota, who are not unionized but still offer alot of great American jobs. If the union wont budge and the company Ceo will not re-invest his jillion dollar bonus back into the company, that company deserves to go bankrupt. I used to believe in the unions, but now, over the years, they have gotten toooooo strong and make to many demands on every company. Look at Safeway, Frys, Kroger, Vons. They are all unionized and cant even come close to competing with Wal-mart. It seems to me that the union is strong-arming these companies into bank-ruptcy while telling the members to "stay strong", we will be there for you if you have to go on strike.
In these hard economic times, there needs to be a compromize on both parts, the union and the company.
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Old 11-19-2008, 10:42 PM   #12
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Wylie's Mom thank you for starting this thread. I for one am saying NO,NO,NO to the bail out for all three.

We have a relative working for one of the big auto makers, I heard that he recieved 90% of his salary for a year after being laid off. I don't know what the buy out thing is for the auto employees but he chose not to do that and eventually did go back to work for the company by moving to another out of state location. He is only scheduled to work 11 days between now and the new year getting 90% of his salary

I hope that the answer to any more bail outs will be NO, NO, These companys need to Reorganize and regroup, the companys, the Unions, the employees need to get their act together and quit being so greedy, if the employees want to go on their strikes let em, after awhile they will come around when they get hungry enough, that is just my opinion.

Please understand that I am not against being Union, in fact if it wasn't for Jack retiring with a union we wouldn't have the benefits that we have, grant you the only help we get now is through their prescription meds plan which we are very grateful for, if we had to pay the full amount for Jack's Parkinsons Meds, we would be standing in line for food stamps, and maybe standing on the corners like some others holding a sign; ours saying, "we don't work for food but gratefull for a hand out."
Fortunately the employees with the company that Jack worked for weren't greedy therefore we still are able to have what he retired with meaning the prescription benefit and are grateful for what we got.

Praying that all this is going to get better, I don't even listen to the news anymore cause it is just too upsetting seeing the way things have gone.

We have been paying a tremendous amount for American made vehicles far too long, and the parts have been outrageous too, now the facts are coming out and it is not a pretty picture.

Thanks again Wylie's Mom this is a subject that needed to be bought up.
Please excuse me if I got jumbled on my phrases here, I hope what I have said makes sence to those that read what I have posted, I tend not to come on the computer much these days, Jack came in to play in the arcades and I saw your posting and couldn't help but comment.

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Old 11-20-2008, 04:54 AM   #13
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As our government plods along printing money and buying up private assets at fire sale prices just remember one thing. All throughout history the great tyrants have come from the left, promising the government can fix everything. This is not a poke at either party because they are both doing this. The truth is the government is hopelessly inefficient at everything it does and it makes terrible decisions with money. Not sometimes....every time. They see all money as theirs and allow us to keep only what they deem appropriate given their need to institute a new give away program before an election. This isn't aimed at a party, I think they both stink. They preach moderation but they mean state control.

Propaganda and fear tactics cause us to allow our freedom to be taken without so much as a struggle, we willingly give it in return for a promise of security. How many times in the last few weeks have they told us something must be done immediately and this is the last thing? Well it hasn't been the last thing and it won't be. There will be crisis after crisis until those who desire the power have all they think they can get. Pick a history book... any history book and read. This is how it works.

Until we demand that the market and it's participants be left to stand or fall on their own merits we will have no security. The only real security is that which is derived from fundamentals of capitalism, those who make the best decisions get to live to fight another day.

Once we become comfortable with the idea that it's "Fair" to have the government confiscate something from one citizen and give it to another citizen in the interest of "Fairness" then the arbiter of fairness is the only one with any power.
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