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07-30-2005, 02:25 PM | #1 |
Tilly & Sami Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Syracuse, Utah
Posts: 1,133
| Controversy ..with Doris Day animal action Ok I can see there is a problem here... and I believe there is a controversy with this Doris Day animal action.. in Regards to All you good breeders!! and I do mean good!! Unfortunately there are more BAD breeders.. AKA ("Puppymill breeders" )Than good!! and puppymill breeders outweigh the Good! This is what millbusters and other organizations are all about shutting down puppymills !! fur trade etc.. Good breeders more than likely fall under this statute! I do respect your right to be against the doris day animal action, And I believe you all hate puppymills as much as the next!. But my Issue is directed at CC's post That this a bad bill?? posted in the thread (please sign the Doris Day animal action) which I feel was a very selfish reason to say it has nothing to do with Puppymills when Indeed it does! she clearly was not thinking about the contents of this Bill only that it will effect her! and I posted the FACTS underneath her post "That her statement Is False" along with the link so she can become educated with that bill! I commend all others that had choose to ignore the thread without prejudice there were 63 views and only 7 signature's! And My Apology If I have offended anyone with my views or opinions |
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07-30-2005, 02:41 PM | #2 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: seaside,ca
Posts: 1,763
| please do not apologize for your views and opinions! everyone is entitled to them. that is what makes this site great is everyone has their own views and opinions about things and that;s how we learn.
__________________ mommy's little baby coco bear |
07-30-2005, 03:19 PM | #3 |
YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 402
| I respect your thoughts but also think if you just read the AR sites, DDAL, PETA and even AKC your only getting part of the story. All opinions are able to be shared I think. Sorry if you feel I worry only about how this will effect me. This is not the case at all. In fact I am one of the few breeders it will not effect. I don't breed enough, import dogs, co own, or have "other" animals. I just would like people to read all sides and the Bill itself to be fully informed. Most all dog clubs are against this Bill as it is written. If you read the bill it doesn't have anything in it to cover care or treatment of animals. No rule to keep rescue from falling under the guidelines of "dealer". It doesn't stop you from having 500 breeding dogs to sell to pet stores. It's a licensing bill. Here is a couple possible things that could happen with the way this bill is written. A show breeder who has 1 male and 1 female and breeds 1 litter a year to show loses their dam to an accident. Wanting to keep the same bloodlines, that happen to be Canadian the breeder ships in a CH female. Opps, she imported a breeding dog and now must be USDA licensed. That means her breeding dogs must be kept like livestock. Now will she do this or just stop breeding? A breeder who shows and has 2-3 litters a year, does all her testing and has wonderful dogs is also active in 4H with her children. They sell a CH goat for $501.00. Now she will have to get a USDA license? A breeder who has 200 males and 200 females who sells to pet stores and never pays any mind to standards or health has 200 litters a year. They are already USDA licensed. (most puppymills are already USDA breeders) No change for them at all............. There are just to many things wrong in this bill. It will not effect USDA breeders at all. If they are worried about all the importing of dogs, and selling straight to the public by high volume breeders they should address that and not leave it open to what can happen the way it is now. AKC says USDA will have to change rules for "in home" hobby breeders. Just because they think they should doesn't mean they will. |
07-30-2005, 04:32 PM | #4 |
Tilly & Sami Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Syracuse, Utah
Posts: 1,133
| Hi, CC's Your Post seemed to signify that the Doris Day animal action bill as nothing to do with puppymills and this is what I am addressing nothing more nothing less based on your statement as follows.. This is a very bad bill as its written that does nothing to help the welfare of puppies or stop mills My only reason of response here was with this statement, which discourages one not to sign or signify that this is a false statement! and misleading as well as your highly (The "YTCA is officially against it" ) that is a yorkshire terrier club? A Club! The Humane Society of These United States Officially indorsed it! http://www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/ here is the bill Doris Day Animal League Puppy Mill Campaign Congress Introduces Bill to End Puppy Mill Abuse May 26, 2005 -- Today the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives introduced a bill to regulate large, commercial pet breeding operations that sell directly to the public. This bill, entitled the Pet Animal Welfare Statute (S. 1139/H.R. 2669) will close a loophole that exempts the sale of puppies over the Internet and through newspaper ads. Young puppies are often transported across state lines to unsuspecting consumers who are unable to see the conditions the animal was bred in. “This bill is long overdue and truly welcomed by the humane community,” said Sara Amundson of DDAL. "This is a significant first step in seeking parity between the federal Animal Welfare Act’s requirements for large, commercial breeders selling to pet stores and to the public." Ask your Members of Congress to support S. 1139/H.R. 2669. What is a "Puppy Mill?" A "puppy mill" is a facility that continuously breeds female dogs, housing them and their puppies in deplorable conditions. Inadequate food, water, sanitation, constant exposure to the elements and dilapidated housing are commonplace. Because of these inhumane conditions, many puppies sold from these mills suffer from chronic physical ailments and may be fearful of people and other animals. These inhumane and abusive conditions have been the subjects of television reports and newspaper articles nationwide. Read U.S. Representative Ed Whitfield's editorial on puppy mill legislation. How You Can Help Stop Puppy Mills Write a Letter to the Editor of your local newspaper and help bring needed attention to this issue! Adopt a puppy from a shelter or rescue group. Help bolster our case for stronger regulations. Send DDAL newspaper articles about the animal cruelty and inhumane conditions found at puppy mills of dealers selling directly to the public. The “kitchen sink” rule signed by Dr. DeHaven affects the Animal Welfare Act pertaining to inspection, licensing, and procurement of animals. These changes will vastly improve enforcement of the Act, close loopholes that allow individuals to thwart the intentions of the law, and better protect the animals the law covers. Of particular significance, the new rule strengthens the USDA’s hand in denying or revoking licenses when individuals have violated animal cruelty laws or are otherwise judged to be “unfit to be licensed” or when issuing a license would “be contrary to the purposes of the Act.” These common-sense changes were supported by both animal protection organizations and the regulated community. Rep. Ed Whitfield on the Puppy Protection Act Since the passage of the Animal Welfare Act (AWA) in 1966, and its subsequent amendments in 1970 and 1985, Congress has demonstrated its commitment to ensuring that appropriate care, handling and transport are provided to puppies bred in commercial breeding establishments. It has charged the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) with licensing and regulating breeders who mass produce puppies for sale to pet stores. The Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC) estimates that 3,500 to 3,700 of the approximately 12,000 pet stores in this country sell dogs and cats and that those stores sell as many as 400,000 puppies each year. In addition, hundreds of thousands of puppies are sold directly to the public, increasingly over the Internet. Americans can simply type any breed into a search engine and find breeders who will ship a puppy to their home. Currently, breeders who mass produce puppies and sell them directly to the public are not regulated by the USDA, leaving a gaping hole in coverage under the AWA. One of the significant problems associated with USDA enforcement of the AWA is the lack of resources available to the agency. This very concern is one of the strongest reasons why I introduced the “Puppy Protection Act,” H.R. 3484, which will give USDA the authority to focus on repeat offenders and put them out of business. This provision is our “three strikes and you’re out” rule and it’s a much needed tool for the agency. In addition, nothing in the Animal Welfare Act regulates the number of times in a given year a breeding female can be bred. In a recent article (from The Ontonagon Herald – upper peninsula of Michigan), a breeder was seeking a loan to expand his business explaining that the ultimate goal was to have 300 breeding females and 60 males on the property, with each female having two litters per year. The puppies would then be sold at $400 per dog. Initially, they planned to sell to pet shops but want to sell through newspaper ads and on the Internet. The “Puppy Protection Act” would ensure that, while these puppies are sold through pet stores, the females could only have three litters in two years, reducing the burden on these animals. More than 58 million homes in this country consider a dog part of the family – and yet approximately 5 million dogs and cats are still euthanized in our shelter system each year due to the lack of good homes, the inability for the dog to socialize with people or other dogs, or simply because a family moved to a “no-pets” building. For those Americans who elect to purchase a purebred puppy, the “Puppy Protection Act” will further protect animals raised in commercial breeding facilities and sold through pet stores. Published in the Summer 2004 Animal Guardian. First elected to Congress in 1994, Ed Whitfield is serving his fifth term as U.S. Representative for the 34 counties of Kentucky’s First Congressional District. In addition to sponsoring the Puppy Protection Act, he has championed the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act, which bans the slaughter of horses for human consumption. Animal Welfare Act Enforcement Congress increased funding for enforcement of this important law that ensures the welfare of animals in breeding facilites, exhibitions, and laboratories. © 2005 Doris Day Animal League. Privacy Policy http://www.ddal.org/puppymills/ http://www.hsus.org/pets/pets_relate...ents/paws.html |
07-30-2005, 05:07 PM | #5 |
Tilly & Sami Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Syracuse, Utah
Posts: 1,133
| Analysis of PAWS (SB1139/HR2669) [Thursday, June 09, 2005] -- Click here for more information about PAWS -- To help dog owners better understand the recently introduced PAWS legislation, please see the bill analysis below as prepared by Dr. James Holt, AKC's federal government relations consultant. SECTION BY SECTION ANALYSIS OF S. 1139/H.R. 2669, THE "PET ANIMAL WELFARE STATUTE" (PAWS) INTRODUCED MAY 26, 2005. Sec. 1. Short Title This Act is named the "Pet Animal Welfare Statute of 2005". Sec. 2. Definitions This section rearranges the definitions in Section 2 of the Act to place them in alphabetical order, amends the definition of the term "dealer" and adds a definition of the term "retail pet store". Analysis Current law defines as a dealer any person who sells dogs for research, teaching, exhibition, or for use in hunting, breeding, security or as a pet and is not a "retail pet store", but does not define the term "retail pet store". The USDA,by regulation, defines a "retail pet store" as any person who sells dogs for hunting, breeding or security or use as a pet exclusively at retail. This regulatory interpretation has been challenged in court as overly broad, but has been upheld. The AKC participated as an amicus in defending the USDA's regulatory interpretation. It is important to note that current law does not contain any exemption for hobby and show breeders. Hobby and show breeders are exempt from licensing based on the "retail pet store" statutory exemption, coupled with the USDA's regulatory interpretation that any person who sells dogs exclusively at retail is a retail pet store. Thus, hobby and show breeders are currently exempt from regulation solely by virtue of being classified as retail pet stores. While the USDA has interpreted the term retail pet store broadly in regulation for the more than 30 years since the enactment of this exemption, it is just a regulatory interpretation, and it could be changed simply by the USDA writing and justifying a new regulation. When the current definition of dealer and the exemption for retail pet stores was enacted, the language did, as a practical matter, separate commercial from amateur breeders, because, as a practical matter, it was difficult to sell large numbers of puppies without resorting to selling at least some of them at wholesale. However, with the advent of the internet and mass media outlets, this is no longer true. The USDA, our own inspectors and fancy, and the animal welfare community are all now aware of large breeders who, by any reasonable definition of the term are commercial breeders, but who sell all of their animals at retail over the internet and/or through mass media. These breeders raise dozens, or even hundreds, of litters a year. Yet because all of the puppies are sold at retail, they evade any federal regulation. In the last few years, persons have begun importing increasing numbers of puppies for resale, also largely over the internet and/or through the mass media, although some auction houses and retail pet stores are also importing puppies directly for resale. Since these puppies are bred and raised overseas, and sold directly at retail by the importers, they are completely outside the legal reach of the USDA. The section amends the definition of "dealer" to include persons who sell dogs at retail regardless of whether or not they bred any of the dogs or cats sold, unless the person is a retail pet store, narrowly defined, or a hobby or show breeder, narrowly defined. It brings under federal regulation persons who import dogs and/or sell dogs at retail who do not meet one of three exemption criteria: (1) they sell 25 or fewer dogs per year; (2) they sell only dogs or cats which they bred or raised on their own premises and whelp 6 or fewer litters per year; or, (3) they meet the statutory definition of a retail pet store. Note the use of the word "or" in the statute. A toy breeder, for example, who sells 25 or fewer dogs per year would not be a dealer, even if they whelped more than 6 litters. To be defined as a dealer a person must sell dogs "in commerce, for compensation or profit". This language should exclude legitimate not-for-profit rescue groups, shelters, and the like. The language for defining such groups will have to be fleshed out in regulations, however the USDA currently exempts not-for-profits, and there is no reason to believe they will not continue to do so. On the other hand, we will want to advocate for covering organizations that make a profit from importing and/or selling dogs, even if they call themselves shelters or rescue organizations. (The AKC will need to be active in the regulation writing process.) With respect to co-breeders and co-owners, the USDA defines as the seller of a dog the person who operates the premises from which the dog is sold, not other co-owners or co-breeders. Analogizing from current regulations, the puppies sold from the premises of each party would be attributed to that pary. Puppies sold from the premises of one co-breeder would not be attributed to the other co-breeder. The amended definition will bring importers, internet retailers and other mass market retailers under regulation, an important goal for protecting purebred dogs. It also for the first time will give hobby and show breeders a specific statutory exemption, rather than having to rely on being classified as retail pet stores. Sec. 3 Access to Source Records for Dogs and Cats. This section amends Section 10 of the Act pertaining to required recordkeeping by adding a subsection requiring that all persons defined as "dealers" and "retail pet stores" prepare, retain and make available for inspection by the Secretary records of the name and address of all persons from whom each cat or dog is acquired and whether that person is required to be licensed under the Act. Analysis Section 10(a) [as redesignated by the PAWS] of the Act sets forth the authority of the Secretary to require dealers and exhibitors to prepare, retain, and produce upon request records set forth by the Secretary in regulations. Since this requirement applies further reading please use link http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=2525 Last edited by jbarile; 07-30-2005 at 05:09 PM. |
07-30-2005, 06:08 PM | #6 |
YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 402
| This will be my last post on this, its long but I think there will be enough information for people to read, look up, and make up their own minds now. Yes YTCA is a club. As are other dog clubs that protect their breed. They also do rescue, fight puppy mills and abuse. Also I would not like to see dog lovers support a bill that will eventually limit their choice of breeder to USDA breeders or BYBs and maybe once in a very long while a breeder that falls in the just right category. What you are posting is not the actual bill, but DDAL's interpretation of it. I believe people should see all sides, (including reading the actual bill). Not just DDAL/HSUS/PETA and even AKC's pages . I know of breeders leaving AKC and going to UKC because of their support of this bill. (not bad breeders either) No I don't think this bill in its present form will stop puppy mills or help the health of the companion pets. IMO, mills are set up because of the money from supply and demand. Make a bill that stops companion animals being sold by pet shops or brokers. Make it that people can only buy a pup directly from the breeder at their facility. Once people see how these dogs are cared for, mills will go out of business due to no one supporting them. I would sign up on that in a nano-second! I know I will not convince you I am thinking of the best for the future of the pet world, but I am. I will not try to change your mind. I post this for others who are unaware of the other side of the story. Here's a few more links and a partial list of animal people against P.A.W.S. http://saova.org/1139.html http://www.pet-law.com/statelists.html http://www.thedogplace.com/TheDogPre...or_Thought.asp Animal Advocacy Organizations Opposing S1139/HR2669 (PAWS) National Groups Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council Sportsmen's and Animal Owners' Voting Alliance Cat Fanciers' Association The Animal Council National Animal Interest Alliance American Dog Owners' Association United Kennel Club Master of Fox Hounds Association The International Cat Association The International Bengal Cat Society U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance National Birman Fanciers (CFA) White Shetland Sheepdog Association Ocicats International The Devon Rex Breed Club The Rabbit Education Society On-Line Feline Fanciers National Pet Alliance The Polish Tatra Sheepdog Club of America Ragdolls of America Group (CFA) Tonkinese Breed Association AKC Parent Breed Clubs American Brittany Club American Shetland Sheepdog Association American Chesapeake Club German Shorthaired Pointer Club of America American Pomeranian Club Papillon Club of America Dachshund Club of America Pug Dog Club of America English Springer Spaniel Field Trial Association Yorkshire Terrier Club of America Chinese Shar-Pei Club of America American Spaniel Club American Boxer Club Saluki Club of America Saint Bernard Club of America Scottish Terrier Club of America American Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club Labrador Retriever Club of America American Brussels Griffon Association - The clubs shown above represent 42.4% of AKC's registrations. Statewide Organizations Virginia Hunting Dog Owners' Association Dog Federation of Wisconsin California Federation of Dog Clubs Missouri Federation of Animal Owners Responsible Pet Owners Alliance (Texas) North Carolina Responsible Animal Owners' Alliance Federation of Maine Dog Clubs Virginia Bear Hunters Association Responsible Animal Owners of Tennessee Illinois Federation of Outdoor Resources PUFF (Pfanciers United For Fun, Inc.) (Midwest) North Carolina Field Trial Association CT Dogs (CT) Amateur Field Trial Clubs of America - Region 12 (AZ & NM) Amateur Field Trial Clubs of America - Region 7 (TX) Nebraska Brittany Club Prairie State Cat Club (IL, IN & MI) Field Trial Clubs of Illinois Hoosier State Chinese Shar-Pei Club (IN) Montana State Houndsmen Association Illinois Regional Brittany Club Illinois Brittany Championship Association Alaska Winds Coursing Club (AK) Local Organizations Carolina Kennel Club, Inc. (NC) Alliance of Responsible Pet Owners of N.E. Florida Greater Clark County Kennel Club (WA) Schooley's Mountain Kennel Club (NJ) Jacksonville NC Kennel Club Central Carolina Dachshund Club (NC) Greater Orange Park Dog Club, Inc (FL) Clermont County Kennel Club (OH) Piedmont Kennel Club (NC) Dalmatian Club of the Piedmont Springfield Kennel Club (MA) Burlington Cat Fanciers (NC) Tropical Cats Inc. (FL) Western Clinton Sportsmen's Association (PA) New Brunswick Kennel Club (NJ) Thunderkatz, Inc. (OK) St. Croix Valley Brittany Club (MN) Fanciers Cocker Spaniel Club of Southern WI Susquehanna Brittany Club (PA) Salisbury Kennel Club (NC) LNC Pet Supply (CA) Memphis International Cat Enthusiasts (TN) East of Eden Cat Fanciers (CA) Colonial Shetland Sheepdog Club (MA) Western Massachusetts Shetland Sheepdog Club Greater Fort Myers Dog Club (FL) Capitol City Cocker Club (DC) Sunshine Dachshund Club of Jacksonville (FL) Absolutely Abyssinians Cat Club (FL) Sawnee Mountain Kennel Club (GA) Eugene Kennel Club (OR) Salt Lake Doberman Pinscher Club (UT) Cochise Bird Dog Club (AZ) Blue Ridge P.E.T.S.(Pets in Education and Therapy Service) (VA) German Shorthaired Pointer Club of Central Virginia Sacramento Bird Dog Club (CA) Triangle Shetland Sheepdog Club of North Carolina Harmony Bay Chinese Shar-Pei Club (WA) Sussex Hills Kennel Club (NJ) Ohio Valley Dog Owners, Inc. Hudson Valley Brittany Club (NY) Garden State Siberian Husky Club (NJ) Burlington Obedience Training Club, Inc. (VT) Raritan River Akita Club (NJ) Kittyhawk Felines, Inc. (OH) Centennial Chinese Shar-Pei Club (CO) Shenandoah Valley Kennel Club (VA) Walkfar Coonhunter’s Coon Club (NC) Rocky Mountain Mastiff Fanciers (CO) ILLOWA Chinese Shar-Pei Club (IL & IA) Shasta Kennel Club (OR) Golden Retriever Club of Western New York Shetland Sheepdog Club of Greater Detroit (MI) German Shepherd Dog Club of Greater Kansas City Clackamas Kennel Club (OR) Doberman Pinscher Club of Northern California Northern Washington Chinese Shar Pei Club Idaho Capital City Kennel Club Rescues Turkish Van Breed Rescue Lhasa Apso Southern Rescue, Inc. (MS) Great Dane Rescue of Northeast Florida Jacksonville Sheltie Rescue (FL) North American Shar-Pei Rescue Pug Rescue of North Carolina, Inc. Birman Breed Rescue New England Sheltie Rescue Devon Rex Rescue League, Inc. Animal Safe Haven Foundation (CA) Bay Area Boxer Rescue (CA) Dalmatian Rescue of Southwest Virginia CFA Purebred Rescue, Inc. KitnHevn Rescue, Inc. (FL & OH) Halfpint Haven Borzoi and Greyhound Rescue, Inc. (FL) Louisiana Brittany Rescue Golden Retriever Rescue of Mid-Florida Bulldog Club of America Rescue Network Miss Kitty's Cat House (AZ) Helping Persian Cats, Inc. (CA) American Brittany Rescue (NJ) Selkirk Rex Breed Rescue (CA) Oregon Basset Hound Rescue Friends of Rescued Mastiffs Golden Retriever Rescue of Maine Colorado Animal Rescue Effort |
07-30-2005, 06:41 PM | #7 |
Tilly & Sami Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Syracuse, Utah
Posts: 1,133
| Thank you! I will do my homework. and thanks for all the links! I really didn't want to come off as If I knew it all and I apologize for the education comment! after I posted and read it it wasn't a proper thing to say! I guess the whole Issue of this bill is just too damn confusing as you can see post after post I was finding this bill related to the puppymill closure. So I suggest to everyone to really read between the lines, because it appears obivious to me I need to look into it alot further! I appreciate your side of this issue and again I apologize |
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