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Old 02-11-2009, 03:09 PM   #1
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Default Bad breeder list

I am looking for a new Yorkie pup and have been somewhat surprised at the number of breeders that I have been told to "stay away from". Is there a list of bad or questionable, Yorkie breeders available anywhere? Boston area. I have spoken to a few breeders who seemed very nice...... Then I found this forum and learned that they really are monsters who sell sickly dogs. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:36 AM   #2
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Default surprising number?

Wow, that is a surprise to know you've been warned about a surprising number of breeders in NE. There aren't many breeders here at all, so I'm puzzled. I know of one who has had a lot written about her that would lead one to think she is more of a broker than breeder, and recently there's been a lot written about one in RI allegedly selling sick puppies. A "bad breeder" directory would be hard to publish for fear of slander and libel suits. There's nothing to replace personal visits with breeders and common sense questioning of their practices and beliefs. If a place is dirty and puppies look sickly, run away. If they're exhibitors with show dogs in residence they're probably pretty serious and are going for quality, but it won't be cheap. If a low price is your priority, you will definitely have a problem finding a good breeder.
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:23 AM   #3
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Here's a list of breeders who are on the AKC suspension List. Many of these breeders have turned to alternative registries, and some breeders have never even been associated with the AKC. AKC suspension index

Here's a list of USDA breeders. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_wel...rt_holders.txt I would avoid everyone on the list who is selling dogs, this usually indicates a large scale operation i.e. puppy mill.

Just because someone isn't on either of these lists, it doesn't mean that they are a good breeder; you could easily change the name of you kennel.

You can do a search on YT in Breeder reviews. Breeder, Vet, & Groomer Reviews - YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community Here's a link to tips to buying a Yorkie. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/fea...ml#post2456681

I always recommend that a person go to the Yorkshire Terrier Club America (YTCA) website for breeder referrals. The YTCA is the mother club of the AKC and sets the standard for the yorkie. Even though you are not planning to breed or show, YTCA breeders offer some gorgeous dogs at competitive prices, because they are more interested in finding the proper home for their offspring than making money from their dogs. They are dedicated to bettering the breed. Here is a link to referrals Yorkshire Terrier Club of America About The Club
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:24 PM   #4
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Default USDA licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 View Post
Here's a list of breeders who are on the AKC suspension List. Many of these breeders have turned to alternative registries, and some breeders have never even been associated with the AKC. AKC suspension index

Here's a list of USDA breeders. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_wel...rt_holders.txt I would avoid everyone on the list who is selling dogs, this usually indicates a large scale operation i.e. puppy mill.

Just because someone isn't on either of these lists, it doesn't mean that they are a good breeder; you could easily change the name of you kennel.

You can do a search on YT in Breeder reviews. Breeder, Vet, & Groomer Reviews - YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community Here's a link to tips to buying a Yorkie. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/fea...ml#post2456681

I always recommend that a person go to the Yorkshire Terrier Club America (YTCA) website for breeder referrals. The YTCA is the mother club of the AKC and sets the standard for the yorkie. Even though you are not planning to breed or show, YTCA breeders offer some gorgeous dogs at competitive prices, because they are more interested in finding the proper home for their offspring than making money from their dogs. They are dedicated to bettering the breed. Here is a link to referrals Yorkshire Terrier Club of America About The Club

From what I understand, anyone with 3 intact females is supposed to be USDA licensed and inspected.

Why is licensing a bad thing? Would you go to a restaurant that isn't inspected by the health department? I keep hearing how being licensed is not desirable. I'm just curious as to why.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:12 AM   #5
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Default USDA licensing is not good

because it means you're running a large scale puppy mill type operation. The license in required in order to produce puppies to sell to pet stores and other resellers. USDA inspection standards are very low and living conditions in most so-called inspected and licensed facilities will make a reputable small-scale breeder cry. This is the first time I hear of a USDA license being required by an owner of 3 or more intact females. That would put most breeders out of compliance. Having a USDA license is not a status symbol, quite the opposite. Allow me to qualify what I have just said, however, by stating that I am repeating things I've heard and read and have never been inside a USDA licensed facility, so have no first hand experience to back up what I'm saying.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicgenie View Post
Wow, that is a surprise to know you've been warned about a surprising number of breeders in NE. There aren't many breeders here at all, so I'm puzzled. I know of one who has had a lot written about her that would lead one to think she is more of a broker than breeder, and recently there's been a lot written about one in RI allegedly selling sick puppies. A "bad breeder" directory would be hard to publish for fear of slander and libel suits. There's nothing to replace personal visits with breeders and common sense questioning of their practices and beliefs. If a place is dirty and puppies look sickly, run away. If they're exhibitors with show dogs in residence they're probably pretty serious and are going for quality, but it won't be cheap. If a low price is your priority, you will definitely have a problem finding a good breeder.
Very nice post girlie... wish more posters were as nice in the way the present information... and the part about " to publish for fear of slander and libel suits." should be thought of more when posters are making some remarks about breeders.. when in fact I know of one case that was so totally wrong.. people saw what they wanted to see and a breeder is now recieving harrassing and threatening phone calls..
So again, do your research and there is good breeders that do sell yorkies and the guarantee is so amazing..
Deb sillers is not in your area but she is fantastic... and her site is Amazing Yorkies AKC Yorkshire Terrier puppies bred for Health as well as Beauty. Breeding-Show Propects or Loving Quality Pets. and if your interested she takes a deposit but if you do not want that said puppy then your deposit is refunded.. what more could a person ask for in guarantee and a healthy puppy... check her out..

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Old 02-26-2009, 06:47 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by magicgenie View Post
because it means you're running a large scale puppy mill type operation. The license in required in order to produce puppies to sell to pet stores and other resellers. USDA inspection standards are very low and living conditions in most so-called inspected and licensed facilities will make a reputable small-scale breeder cry. This is the first time I hear of a USDA license being required by an owner of 3 or more intact females. That would put most breeders out of compliance. Having a USDA license is not a status symbol, quite the opposite. Allow me to qualify what I have just said, however, by stating that I am repeating things I've heard and read and have never been inside a USDA licensed facility, so have no first hand experience to back up what I'm saying.
I think the number you have given it too small, I think it's way over 3 but this varies by state, I'm sure. Many of our members have over three intact females. Where did you find that number?
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:31 AM   #8
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Default Licensing requirements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 View Post
I think the number you have given it too small, I think it's way over 3 but this varies by state, I'm sure. Many of our members have over three intact females. Where did you find that number?
Well, the entire Animal Welfare Act is here : http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/new...eply&p=2489818


It starts out : Any person operating or intending to operate as a dealer,
exhibitor, or operator of an auction sale, except persons who are
exempted from the licensing requirements under paragraph (a)(3) of this
section, must have a valid license.


An exemption from the licensing requirement is if you have 3 or fewer breeding females.

Also, listed as an exemption is if you sell directly to people: Any person who breeds and raises domestic pet animals for
direct retail sales to another person for the buyer's own use and who
buys no animals for resale and who sells no animals to a research
facility, an exhibitor, a dealer, or a pet store (e.g., a purebred dog
or cat fancier) and is not otherwise required to obtain a license.


I am glad I decided to look this up. : ) You don't HAVE to have the license if you sell your dogs only to private individuals.


I always get so worked up about the USDA licensing. They have very minimal standards, but at least there are some sort of standards.... That puppy mill in Missouri that was featured on Oprah had no licensing - maybe if they were inspected by the USDA, those dogs would have been confiscated a lot earlier.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalnutHill View Post
Well, the entire Animal Welfare Act is here : http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/new...eply&p=2489818


It starts out : Any person operating or intending to operate as a dealer,
exhibitor, or operator of an auction sale, except persons who are
exempted from the licensing requirements under paragraph (a)(3) of this
section, must have a valid license.


An exemption from the licensing requirement is if you have 3 or fewer breeding females.

Also, listed as an exemption is if you sell directly to people: Any person who breeds and raises domestic pet animals for
direct retail sales to another person for the buyer's own use and who
buys no animals for resale and who sells no animals to a research
facility, an exhibitor, a dealer, or a pet store (e.g., a purebred dog
or cat fancier) and is not otherwise required to obtain a license.


I am glad I decided to look this up. : ) You don't HAVE to have the license if you sell your dogs only to private individuals.


I always get so worked up about the USDA licensing. They have very minimal standards, but at least there are some sort of standards.... That puppy mill in Missouri that was featured on Oprah had no licensing - maybe if they were inspected by the USDA, those dogs would have been confiscated a lot earlier.

The link you gave doesn't work, but the point you make that the license isn't required if they sell the dogs to private individuals is an important one. If they are not selling to individuals that means they are selling to places like pet stores or brokers, and this is something I believe is wrong.

Your point seems to be that some puppy mills are better than others, and at least some abide by minimum standards, and I agree with that, I still would not recommend anyone buying a dog from a USDA breeder. I think when purchasing a pet you should be looking for someone who has extremely high standards, not someone who just passes minimum standards.
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 View Post
The link you gave doesn't work, but the point you make that the license isn't required if they sell the dogs to private individuals is an important one. If they are not selling to individuals that means they are selling to places like pet stores or brokers, and this is something I believe is wrong.

Your point seems to be that some puppy mills are better than others, and at least some abide by minimum standards, and I agree with that, I still would not recommend anyone buying a dog from a USDA breeder. I think when purchasing a pet you should be looking for someone who has extremely high standards, not someone who just passes minimum standards.
Here is the link to the page: USDA - APHIS - Animal Welfare - Animal Care click on Sec. 2133 Licensing of dealers and exhibitors


Here is the direct link again: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_wel.../54USC2133.txt

Yes, I see that now. : )

But, we are USDA licensed and inspected (though, I now know that we have no reason to be since we are exempt). My dad started breeding 15 years ago and basically studied under a breeder lady from our church (she breeds Chihuahua, and she has gone to our church since she was a little girl - my dad is the preacher now, and so they are very close friends). Anyway, she told him everything he needed to do from how to set up the kennel (with about 5 times the space the USDA requires, inside and outside runs, automatic waterers, a strict veterinary tooth cleaning schedule, grooming schedule, medication schedule, etc).


Of course, my dad likes to do everything by the book and wants to be in total compliance with all state, local and federal laws. : ) But, I guess next year we won't need to renew our license - though that would suck for our USDA inspector. She loves coming out to our house because she doesn't ever have to write anything down. : ) Haha, she says that she has a very large area in which she inspects, and there are a LOT of kennels... she has also mentioned that my dad is the only person who is always in total compliance with all regulations. Which, as I mentioned earlier, the standards are pretty minimal, so if you run a good kennel, you don't have to worry at all about passing inspection. haha : )
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Last edited by WalnutHill; 02-26-2009 at 08:14 AM. Reason: forgot to add link
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalnutHill View Post
From what I understand, anyone with 3 intact females is supposed to be USDA licensed and inspected.

Why is licensing a bad thing? Would you go to a restaurant that isn't inspected by the health department? I keep hearing how being licensed is not desirable. I'm just curious as to why.

Since you are in Missouri, I'll explain Missouri laws. Anything over 3 intact females is supposed to be Missouri State Licensed and inspected. You do NOT have to be USDA licensed at any time in Missouri UNLESS you sell to pet shops or brokers. So, those that are USDA licensed in Missouri made that choice, and most likely sell to pet shops or brokers. I think inspections are good, and most Missouri inspectors take their jobs seriously... at least mine does!
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:07 AM   #12
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[/QUOTE]I always get so worked up about the USDA licensing. They have very minimal standards, but at least there are some sort of standards.... That puppy mill in Missouri that was featured on Oprah had no licensing - maybe if they were inspected by the USDA, those dogs would have been confiscated a lot earlier.[/QUOTE]

They weren't Missouri State licensed either..
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalnutHill View Post
Well, the entire Animal Welfare Act is here : http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/new...eply&p=2489818


It starts out : Any person operating or intending to operate as a dealer,
exhibitor, or operator of an auction sale, except persons who are
exempted from the licensing requirements under paragraph (a)(3) of this
section, must have a valid license.


An exemption from the licensing requirement is if you have 3 or fewer breeding females.

Also, listed as an exemption is if you sell directly to people: Any person who breeds and raises domestic pet animals for
direct retail sales to another person for the buyer's own use and who
buys no animals for resale and who sells no animals to a research
facility, an exhibitor, a dealer, or a pet store (e.g., a purebred dog
or cat fancier) and is not otherwise required to obtain a license.


I am glad I decided to look this up. : ) You don't HAVE to have the license if you sell your dogs only to private individuals.


I always get so worked up about the USDA licensing. They have very minimal standards, but at least there are some sort of standards.... That puppy mill in Missouri that was featured on Oprah had no licensing - maybe if they were inspected by the USDA, those dogs would have been confiscated a lot earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypreciouspups View Post
Very nice post girlie... wish more posters were as nice in the way the present information... and the part about " to publish for fear of slander and libel suits." should be thought of more when posters are making some remarks about breeders.. when in fact I know of one case that was so totally wrong.. people saw what they wanted to see and a breeder is now recieving harrassing and threatening phone calls..
So again, do your research and there is good breeders that do sell yorkies and the guarantee is so amazing..
Deb sillers is not in your area but she is fantastic... and her site is Amazing Yorkies AKC Yorkshire Terrier puppies bred for Health as well as Beauty. Breeding-Show Propects or Loving Quality Pets. and if your interested she takes a deposit but if you do not want that said puppy then your deposit is refunded.. what more could a person ask for in guarantee and a healthy puppy... check her out..

anne
Thanks Anne! I do try very, very hard!
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:21 AM   #14
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Since you are in Missouri, I'll explain Missouri laws. Anything over 3 intact females is supposed to be Missouri State Licensed and inspected. You do NOT have to be USDA licensed at any time in Missouri UNLESS you sell to pet shops or brokers. So, those that are USDA licensed in Missouri made that choice, and most likely sell to pet shops or brokers. I think inspections are good, and most Missouri inspectors take their jobs seriously... at least mine does!

Yes, Missouri is more than 3 intact females (3 or less is exempt), but so is the USDA (with exceptions, of course). We are Missouri licensed and USDA licensed.

I have only been working with my dad for a little under a year now, so I am still learning everything. : ) But, if being USDA licensed is considered "bad" and we don't need it, then I guess we will let our license expire.
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