Help Jeanie!

[jacquelinebabco]

This is Que Tee. She is just impossible on a leash with any other dog. She bits and nips them and makes walking for them and me anything but fun. She will be 2 in November. She has always acted like this. Walking her alone is fine.

YouTube

[yorkietalkjilly]

I tried, Jackie, but it's listed as private!

[jacquelinebabco]

Que Tee is a bit of a challenge on a leash with another dog. - YouTube

[yorkietalkjilly]

Oh, my, Jackie, both of them are too excited, out of control from the moment they see the door and pulling out in front of you instead at heel along side of you. Dogs allowed to walk in front of their leader assume a pack leader/dominant role, are empowered by being allowed to pull ahead and the more dominant dog in a pack will feel they have the right to discipline other, more submissive dogs walking with them, mostly because they feel there is no structure to the walk. And dogs are like children, they need structure and true leadership and rules in almost every aspect of their lives or they anxiously try to assume that role - feeling someone should be in charge.

I'm not sure you'll be willing to put in the time and patience to re-train them but if you are, you can totally correct QT's behavior but you will have to become a real pack leader, specialize in patience for the first two to three weeks, become a Charles-In-Charge as it were and set the rules, correct her when she does something you disagree with and stop the walk in your tracks until she's calm again or else bend down and physically touch her on the flank to send a strong message directly to her body that you disagree with her actions of trying to cross over to nip/bark at your other dog on your other side(once they are trained properly, they can walk side-by-side at heel). And bending down to touch her flank won't be hard to do as she'll be walking on a short lead at your side rather than pulling ahead on that too-long lead you are using now. There is no way you can control an excited dog on a long lead on a walk outside with all those sounds, smells and all the energy flowing in the outdoors.

Dogs don't need to pull ahead to enjoy their walk at all. My Tibbe walks at heel most of the time(oh, occasionally I allow him to pull ahead just to sniff something but return him to heel again when he's done - and other times if he's walking calmly, I allow him to walk ahead for half of the walk but that's because he doesn't abuse the privilege and go nuts). haha - he might if I'd let him - little minx - but I don't think so - once a Yorkie learns what is "right" and that ingrained in his brain, he'll want to do it that way from them on.

First lesson: Before you ever allow your dog near the door, play ball/fetch or some rousing game that burns some energy. Then have them do calm lie/sit on command and relax for a while in the house before you quietly, without a word, harness and leash them up, grab the leads and approach the door.

Allow them some normal excitement by the door, jumping and barking if you'd like and let them burn off some more excitement that way for a while early in the training but then give them the command to lie down or sit and then give the "relax" command. Get a book and you sit, too, right there with them on a chair. This is where the patience comes in. You must sit there with them until these dogs can manage to achieve a calm, relaxed state before you ever approach or open that door. It's imperative they not associate the walk with wild excitement, pulling and poor behavior but learn to associate the walk with achieving a calm, relaxed state before the walk and during the walk.

It can take up to 30 minutes to get them both totally relaxed at first but as soon as they learn that being calm and relaxed is the only way they get near that door, they will begin to police themselves and go into relaxation quicker and quicker as the relaxation training at the door progresses. And they must be sitting or lying in their harnesses and leashes by the door in a calm, relaxed state, ears out to the side, eyes soft, breathing only slightly faster than normal and all excitement purged from their system before you ever stand up and approach the door. If they jump up when you do, say "uh oh" and go back to your regular seat, take up your book again and give them another "relax" command, wait until they are again relaxed, then approach the door. Repeat this exercise over and over for the next two weeks until they finally get the fact that mommie never goes near the door to open it unless we are both quiet and relaxed and stay that way as she both approaches and touches the door. Once they get there, quietly place a luscious treat on the floor before each of them. That's a payoff for learning how to be calm dogs by the door.

That's your first lesson. Keep repeating this training until the dogs can calm themselves in harness and lead with the door right there and allow you to approach and touch it without jumping up and going nuts. You can try it in short, frequent sessions if you'd like at first but with this type training, I've found just sitting there ignoring the dog, quietly reading a book or listening to an audio book while my jack-in-the-box dog learns not to jump up and down from hyper-excitement is the best way to go, however long it takes. And it takes the patience of Job at first. And when he jumps up and gets all excited if I arise to walk to the door, he gets an "uh oh" to mark the failure and we start the waiting for calm process all over again.

With time, your dogs will get the message that excitement means boringly sitting there doing nothing fun happening, never getting to go outside and no progress made toward their walkies when they are out of control. In time they learn to stay in place until you approach and even open the door! Because they know, if they move forward, mom stops all door activity, closes it again and come back in, gets her book and we wait some more. They begin to see you are in control of this process and look at you as the leader of the walk activity.

You'd be surprised how taking control of the doorway space(it is your home and you do get to say what goes on there at the door) and not permitting excitement to continue and build will begin to teach them how to control their impulsive behavior and calm right down so the door can be approached and even opened and everybody get to go outside.

Your next lesson will be to teach them that an open door doesn't mean they get to go out it until you give the release for them to go out - from behind you - as you always always always always always get to go out first(just like a dog pack leader does - he always leads the way for his pack) and wait until they are calm and not acting crazy before you invite them to come out the door. Should they try, you just say "uh oh", pull up on the leash, block them with your body and lead them right back inside, give the down/relax command and wait for the relaxed state of mind you want. But that's your next lesson and meaningless as this all might seem, this is all vital preparation to taking control of the walk by first owning the doorway, establishing the behavior there you want, opening the door, being invited outside and ultimately QT's behavior on the lead.

If you get through the first and second lessons and get dogs that learn to go into relaxation at the door and stay that way as you approach it and open it, let me know and we can move on to Lesson Three.

[jacquelinebabco]

Jeanie, thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me. Especially, knowing how awful you feel. I'll start with your suggestions and keep you posted on our success. It certainly would be much more enjoyable to walk with them without so much effort on my part.

[kjc]

Hi Jackie! I have a different take on this... I agree with what Jeannie said about training and how to... but in the short term...


I'm quessing that Q Tee is queen in the house? She seems so much more interested in what Wyatt is doing than walking, lol. I don't think she did all that bad in all. She barely evens stopped to poo, lol.


She also seems concerned that Wyatt is always out in front of her.


Try letting her be in the front by keeping Wyatt on a shorter lead. If she still won't settle, switch and let Wyatt take the lead and short leash Q Tee, so she can't reach him. When she calms down, let the lead out again.


Short leashing them both, one in each hand and kept one to each side may be easier on your back for starting the walk. Then as their energy burns off, let the leads out longer as long as she's behaving.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by jacquelinebabco

Jeanie, thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me. Especially, knowing how awful you feel. I'll start with your suggestions and keep you posted on our success. It certainly would be much more enjoyable to walk with them without so much effort on my part.

You are so welcome, Jackie. It's funny - I did some PT exercises and stretching and my neck spasm mostly left so I was doing fine again.

I know this seems onerous at first but if you will gain control of them in the house and set some boundaries B4 you ever go outside and spend some time sitting there quietly unconcerned as they learn how to calm themselves down, and then you invite them outside after you've gone out first will set the tone that walks now on will be conducted under new terms.

When you go to Lesson 3, it will be mostly just teaching QT how to walk beside you herself until she learns now to pull and cross over in front of you and such and then when she's walking along like a good girl, you can teach Wyatt the same lesson and then one day, take them both out for a very short walking session together. They will both by this time, be inured to taking direction and cues from you and behaving accordingly on the walk and this first walk together should be a lot easier but it will take some repetitions and work to make sure that they stay well-behaved on walks.

Just know when you are sitting there by the front door, bored to tears waiting for you dancing and hyper-excited dogs to calm down, the pay-off of them learning the invaluable lesson that the faster they go down, get calm and relaxed, you will stand up and walk to the door and open it, as long as they stay in place. It's okay if they sit up but they must stay in place as you open the door and walk through it or you immediately say, "uh oh" or "no", go right back in, herd them into their waiting spots again and start all over with the "relax" command and everybody waits here until they do.

Here is fact of dog training/handling: This is where real dog trainers win and dog owners give up - waiting for dogs to teach themselves how to calm down and relax before proceeding to take anxious, excited dogs for walks and starting all over again when they get all excited and jump up the moment you move. Dog trainers have learned that a lot of patience in waiting for a dog to learn how to relax from a hyper state and remain relaxed is worth the waiting and the boredom for the great payoff down the road. But two weeks is a short time to invest in your dogs and that's usually all it takes to get the initial training in relaxing and staying relaxed imprinted in their brains.

And dogs that aren't constantly reminded of their training in relaxation or whatever their training is will tend to lose the ability to carry it through unless you frequently give them the commands you've taught and reinforce the training from time to time.

The things you teach them now in learning how to control their impulses in order to get something they badly want - the walk - will stand them in good stead for the rest of their lives and make them so much easier to manage and to live with and have around the house or out on walks.

[gemy]

I loved all that Jeanie said, and also Kathy. Because you are an experienced dog owner, here in is what I say.

First take the dogs out separately for walks for at least two weeks. Train each one individually as you walk, with some basic obedience commands, come, sit, stay, heel, down. And yes shorten up that lead, it is way too long for a disciplined walk. You want each dog walking easy on their lead, by your side. And if you want eventually both dogs on lead want one to heel on your left, and one to heel on your right train each dog to this.

Your dogs had no focus at all on you, and that is not a great thing. Each dog needs to focus on you and not the other dog. individual training will help to establish this.

And as Jeanie said no dog gets to go out for a walk, unless they are calmly sitting at the door. It will take time and patience, but it is so very worth it!

You can expand this training to with-in the house. All dogs must sit and wait for their food, no dogs get to go up the stairs ahead of you. No dogs eat before you. These are simple things that gently establish just who the boss is here, and that is you!

On a further note, short leads when you walk your dog(s) will go a long wall to helping to at least not exacerbate your back pain.

[jacquelinebabco]

Thanks Kathy and Gail for you input. Jeanie, I'm glad you had some pain free moments. Que Tee walks fine by herself. As does Wyatt. It seems to be only when I try to walk her with any of my other dogs. I try to keep her leash shorter so that, in the case of the video, Wyatt can avoid her nipping at his legs. He keeps turning around and engaging her. If I were to let her lead she would be turning around and chewing on Wyatt. It's not that she wants to lead it's that she wants to play, I think. I have tried matching her up with the other two dogs and Widget just refuses to walk and sits down and Hannah will nip at her legs so they both are chasing each other. Funny but if I walk them on unfamiliar ground they are fine?
I'll work on calming them down before going out the door and will shorten their leashes.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Here is something to think about before you consider allowing QT to walk ahead of Wyatt or you on the lead - even for only part of the walk - while she's in training and not yet calm and submissive at the front door or during the walk. Because QT is exhibiting signs of dominant and aggressive behavior on the lead, running about wildly, pulling ahead and incessantly focusing on and repeatedly running and nipping at Wyatt, I fear that allowing her to walk ahead of you and Wyatt will only enhance her sense of power and once again give her the feeling that she's the one in control - never a feeling you want her to have as long as she's using her teeth on Wyatt. She's got to learn that whatever you allow or prevent Wyatt doing on the walk is none of her business - that you are in control at all times - and she should only focus on you for direction during walks and ignore other dogs behavior. Don't worry, she won't become an automaton, just a happier, better-behaved walking companion for both Wyatt and you.

I'm sure not trying to be disagreeable or anything because someone has a different opinion, it's just that I fear more power during the walk in the next few weeks is the last thing little Miss QT needs right now and could encourage her bad behavior. And I fear one day, little Wyatt could get enough of that nipping and disciplining she dispenses, decide he's had enough and go for her. If I were training them, I'd keep each of them only right beside or just slightly behind me until all signs of pulling, out-of-control, dominant/aggressive behavior have been gone from their repertoire for at least a year and then you can cut them some slack of you'd like.

Still, I know there are many different ways to rehabilitate and train dogs and each dog trainer should use those methods that work best and most effectively for them and their dog.

[kjc]

I agree with Jeanie... but want to add that anything you do that causes the opposite reaction to what you expected... discontinue that action. I suggested letting Q Tee be in the lead bc I got a sense that maybe she was a bit frustrated bc Wyatt gets to sniff everything first. I could also see her playfulness, lol. Allowing her to go ahead could go either way, and with her being so young, you may have to try different things until you find what works and gives you your desired response from her.


Another suggestion is to start the walk off fast, not allowing them to sniff around. Make a designated area where you walk to then stop and let them relieve themselves (and you take a break), then walk to another spot and stop again. This will teach them that walking is serious business, and they won't have time to play along the way (if you walk fast enough).


When you go out of the yard with them, their mentality changes and they become packmates, and they work together to keep the pack safe. (At least this is what I have seen mine do in unfamiliar places).

[kjc]

How's it going?