Need advice - YorkieTalk.com Forums

teri88 · 05-15-2005, 06:33 AM

I decided to just take a look and see what Yorkies are available out there. (yeah right, I've resigned myself to the fact that now that I've experienced a yorkie I can't live without one!) anyway, I sent an email to a breeder that I found from the Links on this site. I wanted to know when she would have a litter available and she said she has a litter available every two weeks. Does that sound right? Having found out that Bandit came from a puppy mill has me being extremely causious going forward. What are everyone's thoughts?

stacisnyder04 · 05-15-2005, 06:36 AM

Sounds to me like a puppy mill she has to have a lot of dogs to have a litter every 2 weeks. I am not sure how long you wait until you can breed a female again but I know that it is not right after she had a litter.

lily's mom · 05-15-2005, 08:06 AM

Yikes, every two weeks? IMO that is way to many to properly care for. Keep looking.

browniesmom622 · 05-15-2005, 08:15 AM

puppymill!!

Stitches29 · 05-15-2005, 08:18 AM

Depends if she is running a full fledge kennel or a puppy mill. A puppy mill is where you wear down your females to a pulp. A good breeding kennel has several breeding couples and only allow them to breed perhaps once a year. The breeder that Maggie came from has several pair of breeding stock. I have been to her facility and seen how well her parents are. Never has one of her Yorkies been over bred. Check her out www.trenastoys.com

SoCalyorkiLvr · 05-15-2005, 08:39 AM

It sounds like this person may be a "broker", someone who sells puppies for breeders. Some breeders don't want the hassle of selling the babies. They use a broker who is trained to make sure the home is "fit for their babies" and handles all the training of the new owner as well as the money and contract transactions.

I don't want to stir up controversy but there seems to be a general prejudice against brokers. I have good friend who is a broker and I got Hefner from a broker and they are not ALL BAD. It is true that MOST probably are, but I just don't want you to "close the door" on a potential opportunity because of this.

My friend who is a broker gets her puppies from Brazil. She has chosen to do this because these puppies are generally healthier and come from beautiful championship lines . I have seen these dogs personally, and they are not only healthy, they are gorgeous with thick, beautiful coats and small ears and snouts.

I got Hefner before I knew anything about yorkies and I got him from a broker in my town. She sold her grandma's (yorkie breeder for 30+ years)yorkies and then yorkies, maltese and chihuahua for other friends as well. These babies were all in playpens in her home with heaters and all the posh amenities as well as 24/7 care and human interaction. She knew so much and, I swear, could keep anything alive even when the vet said it was hopeless. A lot of runts die because they are too small and too weak to feed, and most breeders just "let nature takes it course" because it is a lot of work to hand feed a baby, especially more than one. This broker would not consider not trying everything humanly possible to save a puppy who wasn't thriving and she usually did.

She knows so much about the health and care of small breed dogs and she is a tremendous resource for me even now. Buddha would not be here if it weren't for her. She saved his life.

Anyway, all I am trying to say is, you need to really do your research and spend a lot of time talking to the person you may buy a puppy from. Talk to their vet, talk to people who have purchased from them, etc. Go visit if you can and ask to speak to the breeder of the puppy you are interested in and ask to at least see photos of the parents of the puppy if they are not "on site". Most good brokers will let you talk to the breeder if you ask questions they can't answer.

You can ask them outright if they are the breeder or the broker.

There are also some large scale breeders out there who have a lot of dogs and can produce a litter quite often. These I would also carefully screen because you do want a puppy who is adequately socialized and it is hard without a lot of staff to care for and interact with a lot of puppies. Some of these are big businesses with well run facilities and they do hire a lot of employees to care for the puppies. Some do not. You need to be able to wed through the bad to find the good.

Females from good breeders are usually allowed to go through at least one heat cycle after having puppies before being bred again. The best breeders will let them go throught two cycles which means they only have a litter every year and a half or so.

Good luck in your search.

eensor · 05-15-2005, 09:09 AM

Did the breeder of Bandit reimburse you for him? If not, are you taking action?

whispersmom2 · 05-15-2005, 10:24 AM

[SIZE=2]OMG, to have puppies available every 2 weeks, the breeder would either have to have 26 females and breed them every cycle or similar numbers....I think. Is my math right? Bet they are either millers or brokers; either way, I would think long and hard before buying from them. How many visits will you make before making a decision? Will you take a knowledgeable Yorkie person with you to see them and to help interview the breeder? Not all brokers are bad as not all professional breeders are good....
I read the statement that dogs from Brazil are healthier and from champion parents. I wonder how that statement could be backed up by a broker? Dogs from any place have the potential for health problems unique to the breed. As for champion parents-well, that might be true but there are only so many champions and more males than females in most cases. So, maybe ch. sired would be more accurate?? Just wondering...I have seen some lovel puppies from Brazil-recently, a friend bought Brazilian-born pups. They had been personally picked up and brought to this country..They are cute, but I cannot say they are healthier than our US born ones..[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]In all cases when buying a puppy of any breed, the motto "Let the buyer BEWARE!" applies. Educationg ones self about the breed and the breeder and selection process are of prime importance..JMHO[/SIZE]

SoCalyorkiLvr · 05-15-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whispersmom2

[SIZE=2] Not all brokers are bad as not all professional breeders are good....
I read the statement that dogs from Brazil are healthier and from champion parents. I wonder how that statement could be backed up by a broker? Dogs from any place have the potential for health problems unique to the breed. As for champion parents-well, that might be true but there are only so many champions and more males than females in most cases. So, maybe ch. sired would be more accurate?? Just wondering...I have seen some lovel puppies from Brazil-recently, a friend bought Brazilian-born pups. They had been personally picked up and brought to this country..They are cute, but I cannot say they are healthier than our US born ones..[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]In all cases when buying a puppy of any breed, the motto "Let the buyer BEWARE!" applies. Educationg ones self about the breed and the breeder and selection process are of prime importance..JMHO[/SIZE]

I couldn't agree more with that last statement! It's so true!

I knew I might get some "heat" about the comments I made about the Brazilian puppies after I reread my post. I didn't mean to imply that they were "healthier than ANY yorkies here in the US" but she looked and looked and found these to be the best she could find in making a decision on what she wanted to sell. Of course we all know that you cannot "absolutely guarantee" any puppie's health. She was really concerned about overall general health and temperament first and then looks and "champion lines". Not to be too picky about semantics, but I said "champion lines" not champion parents.

I know that there are many many healthy puppies bred right here in our country too.

StewiesMom · 05-15-2005, 02:41 PM

I am weary of getting a puppy over the Internet, especially if they are from Oklahoma, Pennsylvania AND ESPECIALLY Missouri. If you're purchasing from the Internet I'd be especially attentive to breeders who are from those states. Of course, a mill or bad breeder can be found anywhere -- those are just the most common places.

teri88 · 05-15-2005, 04:14 PM

Thanks everyone for comments and advice. I am going to be VERY CAREFUL this time. My daughter keeps finding cute puppies on the internet and i told her I absolutly will not buy one that way. I'm only using the net to find breeders I can drive to. I live in NJ so if anyone has a reference, I'd be happy to get it.
eensor: I haven't gotten my money back from Bandit yet, but we are working on it. The vet gave me a certificate of unfitness yesterday so I'm going through the Division of consumer affairs, they regulate the sale of dogs and cats in NJ
After what happened with Bandit be sure that I am not rushing into anything. I'm compiling a list of questions from things I've read on this site. Hopefully by the time I find a new baby I'll have my money back from American Breeders and we'll be set to go!

diva pup · 05-15-2005, 05:59 PM

My personal opinion is NEVER buy from a broker. They are in it for the money ONLY. There is not a decent argument for the reasoning of this practice that I have heard yet.

txshopper73 · 05-15-2005, 06:08 PM

If she is just a breeder, maybe she didn't mean every two weeks, but in two weeks. Just trying to give her the benefit of a doubt.

red98vett · 05-16-2005, 05:47 AM

Well...I guess my 2 cents are going to be included here - BROKERS SELL FOR PROFIT and if there are good ones out there - it's RARE.

A GOOD BREEDER sells for the love of the breed. Many BROKERS transport and sell these animals directly to pet shops. They may also breed.

LvMyYorki · 05-16-2005, 06:19 AM

Here is the link to the breeders that are affiliated with the YTCA in New Jersey. http://www.ytca.org/breeder3.html#NJ All of the breeders listed here have agreed to this code of ethics: http://www.ytca.org/ethics.html

Don't knowingly buy from a puppy mill. There is no reason to when you have alternate resources available to you.

05-15-2005, 06:33 AM	#1
teri88 Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 4,021	Need advice I decided to just take a look and see what Yorkies are available out there. (yeah right, I've resigned myself to the fact that now that I've experienced a yorkie I can't live without one!) anyway, I sent an email to a breeder that I found from the Links on this site. I wanted to know when she would have a litter available and she said she has a litter available every two weeks. Does that sound right? Having found out that Bandit came from a puppy mill has me being extremely causious going forward. What are everyone's thoughts?

05-15-2005, 06:36 AM	#2
stacisnyder04 I Love My Boys Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 1,504	Sounds to me like a puppy mill she has to have a lot of dogs to have a litter every 2 weeks. I am not sure how long you wait until you can breed a female again but I know that it is not right after she had a litter. __________________ Staci , Cosmo, Astro, and Blu (RIP) Cosmo's Age: http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt...k/d69e/age.png Astro's Age: http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt...k/9c6a/age.png

05-15-2005, 08:06 AM	#3
lily's mom Lily Loves Maximus Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,633	Yikes, every two weeks? IMO that is way to many to properly care for. Keep looking. __________________ Lily and Dawn

05-15-2005, 08:15 AM	#4
browniesmom622 Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: ny Posts: 11,253 Blog Entries: 5	puppymill!! __________________ We Love our Yt Angel! My Website< > FB page

05-15-2005, 09:09 AM	#7
eensor YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Effingham, Illinois Posts: 2,535	Did the breeder of Bandit reimburse you for him? If not, are you taking action? __________________ I'd rather be in Mexico!

05-15-2005, 08:18 AM	#5
Stitches29 My Little Magwad Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 1,739	Depends if she is running a full fledge kennel or a puppy mill. A puppy mill is where you wear down your females to a pulp. A good breeding kennel has several breeding couples and only allow them to breed perhaps once a year. The breeder that Maggie came from has several pair of breeding stock. I have been to her facility and seen how well her parents are. Never has one of her Yorkies been over bred. Check her out www.trenastoys.com

05-15-2005, 08:39 AM	#6
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	It sounds like this person may be a "broker", someone who sells puppies for breeders. Some breeders don't want the hassle of selling the babies. They use a broker who is trained to make sure the home is "fit for their babies" and handles all the training of the new owner as well as the money and contract transactions. I don't want to stir up controversy but there seems to be a general prejudice against brokers. I have good friend who is a broker and I got Hefner from a broker and they are not ALL BAD. It is true that MOST probably are, but I just don't want you to "close the door" on a potential opportunity because of this. My friend who is a broker gets her puppies from Brazil. She has chosen to do this because these puppies are generally healthier and come from beautiful championship lines . I have seen these dogs personally, and they are not only healthy, they are gorgeous with thick, beautiful coats and small ears and snouts. I got Hefner before I knew anything about yorkies and I got him from a broker in my town. She sold her grandma's (yorkie breeder for 30+ years)yorkies and then yorkies, maltese and chihuahua for other friends as well. These babies were all in playpens in her home with heaters and all the posh amenities as well as 24/7 care and human interaction. She knew so much and, I swear, could keep anything alive even when the vet said it was hopeless. A lot of runts die because they are too small and too weak to feed, and most breeders just "let nature takes it course" because it is a lot of work to hand feed a baby, especially more than one. This broker would not consider not trying everything humanly possible to save a puppy who wasn't thriving and she usually did. She knows so much about the health and care of small breed dogs and she is a tremendous resource for me even now. Buddha would not be here if it weren't for her. She saved his life. Anyway, all I am trying to say is, you need to really do your research and spend a lot of time talking to the person you may buy a puppy from. Talk to their vet, talk to people who have purchased from them, etc. Go visit if you can and ask to speak to the breeder of the puppy you are interested in and ask to at least see photos of the parents of the puppy if they are not "on site". Most good brokers will let you talk to the breeder if you ask questions they can't answer. You can ask them outright if they are the breeder or the broker. There are also some large scale breeders out there who have a lot of dogs and can produce a litter quite often. These I would also carefully screen because you do want a puppy who is adequately socialized and it is hard without a lot of staff to care for and interact with a lot of puppies. Some of these are big businesses with well run facilities and they do hire a lot of employees to care for the puppies. Some do not. You need to be able to wed through the bad to find the good. Females from good breeders are usually allowed to go through at least one heat cycle after having puppies before being bred again. The best breeders will let them go throught two cycles which means they only have a litter every year and a half or so. Good luck in your search.

05-15-2005, 10:24 AM	#8
whispersmom2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MD Posts: 2,985	[SIZE=2]OMG, to have puppies available every 2 weeks, the breeder would either have to have 26 females and breed them every cycle or similar numbers....I think. Is my math right? Bet they are either millers or brokers; either way, I would think long and hard before buying from them. How many visits will you make before making a decision? Will you take a knowledgeable Yorkie person with you to see them and to help interview the breeder? Not all brokers are bad as not all professional breeders are good.... I read the statement that dogs from Brazil are healthier and from champion parents. I wonder how that statement could be backed up by a broker? Dogs from any place have the potential for health problems unique to the breed. As for champion parents-well, that might be true but there are only so many champions and more males than females in most cases. So, maybe ch. sired would be more accurate?? Just wondering...I have seen some lovel puppies from Brazil-recently, a friend bought Brazilian-born pups. They had been personally picked up and brought to this country..They are cute, but I cannot say they are healthier than our US born ones..[/SIZE] [SIZE=3]In all cases when buying a puppy of any breed, the motto "Let the buyer BEWARE!" applies. Educationg ones self about the breed and the breeder and selection process are of prime importance..JMHO[/SIZE]

05-15-2005, 02:41 PM	#10
StewiesMom Stewie Rox the Sox Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 6,306	I am weary of getting a puppy over the Internet, especially if they are from Oklahoma, Pennsylvania AND ESPECIALLY Missouri. If you're purchasing from the Internet I'd be especially attentive to breeders who are from those states. Of course, a mill or bad breeder can be found anywhere -- those are just the most common places. __________________ Kristy & Stewie

05-15-2005, 04:14 PM	#11
teri88 Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 4,021	Thanks everyone for comments and advice. I am going to be VERY CAREFUL this time. My daughter keeps finding cute puppies on the internet and i told her I absolutly will not buy one that way. I'm only using the net to find breeders I can drive to. I live in NJ so if anyone has a reference, I'd be happy to get it. eensor: I haven't gotten my money back from Bandit yet, but we are working on it. The vet gave me a certificate of unfitness yesterday so I'm going through the Division of consumer affairs, they regulate the sale of dogs and cats in NJ After what happened with Bandit be sure that I am not rushing into anything. I'm compiling a list of questions from things I've read on this site. Hopefully by the time I find a new baby I'll have my money back from American Breeders and we'll be set to go!

05-15-2005, 05:59 PM	#12
diva pup BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,139	My personal opinion is NEVER buy from a broker. They are in it for the money ONLY. There is not a decent argument for the reasoning of this practice that I have heard yet.

05-15-2005, 06:08 PM	#13
txshopper73 Donating YT 14K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 14,226 Blog Entries: 1	If she is just a breeder, maybe she didn't mean every two weeks, but in two weeks. Just trying to give her the benefit of a doubt.

05-16-2005, 05:47 AM	#14
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	Well...I guess my 2 cents are going to be included here - BROKERS SELL FOR PROFIT and if there are good ones out there - it's RARE. A GOOD BREEDER sells for the love of the breed. Many BROKERS transport and sell these animals directly to pet shops. They may also breed. __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE!

05-16-2005, 06:19 AM	#15
LvMyYorki Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 1,181	Here is the link to the breeders that are affiliated with the YTCA in New Jersey. http://www.ytca.org/breeder3.html#NJ All of the breeders listed here have agreed to this code of ethics: http://www.ytca.org/ethics.html Don't knowingly buy from a puppy mill. There is no reason to when you have alternate resources available to you.