Second Opinions........

[SnowWa]

Getting second opinons.....

I want to preface my post with a few facts. My husband, who was a physician, was best friends with another physician whose wife is a vet. The four of us spent a lot of time together and even today, Brenda (the vet) and I spend time together, going out to dinner and doing other things (plus she is my vet.)

Brenda and I were talking a month or so ago about "second opinions" - in the my field of medicine and in her own practice.

We agree that there certainly are times for second opinions...especially when serious health problems exist (that should be improving and aren't) and when expensive or life-threatening procedures are being investigated.

But - unlike our own medical care (where our insurances are willing to cover second opinions without much regard to the seriousness of our problems) - second opinions often require additional out-of-the pocket expensives for those of us with our animals.

Stating that most "second opinion visits" are unnecessary as well as an unnecessary expense, some of the things she had to say were:

1) Usually, she knows the first vet and regards his opinion highly.
2) Usually, she agrees with his initial opinion, but has the advantage
of knowing that the animal has not responded to his recommended
treatment...which she probably would have begun with also.
3) If she does move on to do further testing - the first vet would have
probably have done that also, if the patient had returned to him.
4) If an animal is seriously ill or has a chronic problem, often visiting
different vets only impedes and complicates the care the animal is
receiving.
5) Costly tests are often duplicated.
6) If time is an issue regarding a pet's care, it is being wasted by
going to different vets and often starting all over again.
7) Some vets have a better bedside manner than others - some vets are
are tired (from work) or have had a bad day, the day you visit. This
rarely detracts from the judgements they make in treating your pet.
(Remember some of the best surgeons in the world wouldn't win a
popularity contest.)
8) Most pets she sees for second opinions don't have a serious health
problem. In fact, many of these pets are nearly recovered by
the time they visit her office.
9) Many problems she sees aren't serious, but are chronic in nature -
(arthritis - chronic ear problems - chronic anal gland problems, etc.)
that will never be cured - but rather that some unfortunate animals
just seemed to have been cursed with and will require care for from
time to time. She can do no better than your first vet could do with
these problems.
10) Some problems can't be cured....regardless of how many vets you see
or how many opinions you get.

Of course, there are times when a second opinion is appropriate. Again, if our pet has a serious health problem that should be improving and isn't - if they are in pain, and we honestly hope that they might be better managed in this regard, or - if extremely expense surgery or life-threatening care is involved; we want to further investigate this.

****** I am bringing this information up only because so many people here are so quick to say "get a second opinion" all the time -- regarding any problem.

Brenda's advise certainly was to get a second opinion when it's appropriate and warranted....but, first give your first vet a chance to continue his care (which he can't do if you don't return to him) -- and don't waste your money and time visiting different vets when it's not necessary (which, she said, seldom is.)

I know I have forgotten some of the points she brought up - but hopefully, I remembered most of them. --she did mention that people should insist that their vets make whatever information they are giving them understandable. Go to your vet with a list of questions you want answered and understand the answers before you leave the office. If you are confused about something when you get home, call the office back and ask that something be better explained. You need to understand your pet's health problems and what might be done for them.

***** Brenda has one patient - a neurotic, hypochondriacal, pet owner (which none of us are) - who has her pet's records at six different vet's offices. Thankfully, her little dog has no serious problems. They just worry about everything, dream up exotic new diseases all the time, and like to visit the doctor. And, obviously, she can afford to pay the bills.

Carol Jean

[YorkieRose]

I always recommend second opinions with both human and canines.
WE just had a member whose Yorkie was being treated for an enlarged heart by the regular vet..but the Cardio vet found that was not the problem..

I perfer a specialist when it comes to both man and dog problem out of the ordinary....if I had a heart problem I would not go to my GP...a serious problem with my eyes would be taken care of by a Othomologist, not my daughter , an optician...same with the dogs...I have no problem with the regular vet doing all routine things and minor problems...but if something isn't cleared up in due time I want the opinion of the vet/MD who specializes in that BODY part...

[Patti]

I only get a second opinion when my vet refers me to a specialist. When Cali was being tested for LIver Shunt they told me that the ER surgeon would be the best to have a Liver biopsy done so that she could fix the shunt if necessary. They said they could not do the surgery. I totally trust my vets.

[Lacy's Mom]

I trust my vet completely and have never felt a need for a second opinion. I agree with everything you posted, if you're lucky enough to have a good vet. Most vets are very knowledgeable and caring, but sometimes the vet care received is substandard at best. Rather than advising to seek a second opinion, I think we are saying, "Get a new vet!"

[Wrenee4]

If a vet ever states something is wrong with a dog of ours we will ALWAYS get a 2nd opinion. When I my schnauzers I was told so many wrong things by diff vets that if surgery is ever brought up - I will always get a second opinion. I found a great vet now though, thank goodness!!

[SnowWa]

I trust my vet totally too.... and, she is the first one to wonder at times what might really be going on. Fortunately, she works with two other good vets, and they often talk among themselves about the animals they are caring for. So - I know if my pet's problem is a difficult one to diagnose or care for, I am automatically getting a second and third opinion from the same office.

I wholeheartedly agree with sending seriously sick animals on to specialists. (Few of us would let our primary physicians treat us for heart failure.) I don't consider being sent to a specialist the same thing as getting a second opinion. I think of my vet as my dog's primary physician - a doctor who can take care of 90'% of my pup's problems. I would expect her to refer me to a specialist who is an expert in a certain area of medicine if I had a serious problem that required more specialized care. This should be done routinely.

----------------
Second opinions are only second opinions. My friend was told by her doctor that she had gallstones and needed to have her gallbladder taken out. Of course, he recommended a gallbladder ultrasound to start with. She wasn't real happy with this diagnosis (the prospect of having surgery, etc.) and wondered if he was really right about it. She went to another doctor who told her that he doubted that she had gallstones and recommended that she change her diet and be kinder to her stomach. She did as she was told for the next month or two - and one night was taken to the emergency room at 2 am to have emergency gallbladder surgery. By this time, the stones had moved into the duct and her condition was far more serious than it had been when she visited her first doctor.

Perhaps - she should have gotten a "third opinion."

------

I think those of us who have vets that we trust completely are the lucky ones. I have said many times that my vet is very good - as are her partners - but that doesn't mean that she doesn't confer with them or other doctors (specialists) from time to time herself. I have even heard her mention to another patient that she called the University of Washington to find out more about her dog's condition.

**** If your vet or your family physician isn't willing to learn something new every day - or isn't willing to keep up on the fast advancing care available in medicine - you should be seeing a different vet or a different doctor. You don't learn everything in medical school and then practice what you have learned forever. (Our doctors and vets have to continue their education and keep up to date - in order to keep their licenses to practice. They have to have proof that they have attained a specified number of Contined Medical Education (CME) hours every year). This is a good.

Carol Jean

[doggrooming]

When I moved to OK I found a really good vet but he was over 45 min away. My sister had to take her dog to the vet in an emergancy and could not get a hold of her reg vet. I was with her and he treated her vety fair. I got a cocker pup soon after word and he was 20 min away I started her there. When she was hit by a car I took her to him. He put her in a kennel over night and then the next day did surgery. I took her home 3 days later. When she started getting sick I took her back and he informed me that she needed a 2nd surgery. He did it the next day. 3 weeks later I took her to my first vet who looked at the first x-ray then the 2nd x-ray and then did his own x-ray which I saw. He 2nd surgery was done to correct the first incompetent surgery. The 2nd did not fix it and she will never have full use of her leg again. O I also forgot that the first vet never put her on antiboitic which she had a major infection the 2nd vet caught. And she got a major tick infestation from the first vets office which almost killed her. I agree in 2nd opinions. I wish I had seeked a 2nd sooner.

[Dan & Corinne]

I guess what I'd like to say is. Research! Learn about the medicines. Learn about the any lab results. Discuss it with your vet. If you find you don't understand or agree with a treatment ask! Depending on the vet's answer you can then make a decision to seek a second opinion.

Many vets are pressured by various pharmacies to push certain drugs. Most vets are not rich for they do not have HMO's and PPO's paying for their time. Many vets struggle to keep their practice going. Yes to us the cost may seem exessive, but they have to buy all the equipment for surgeries, x-rays, heart monitors, etc. They have expenses we don't always take into consideration. Not to mention the people who don't pay and emergency work they do for stray animals.

Just do your homework first before you question your vets opinion.

I have 2 stories to share:

Jazzie's Story:

I had this one vet who seemed to be good on the surface but each time I took Jazzie in for skin problems (I later learned she had allergies), he would give her a cortizone shot and send me home with anibiotics. I finally got frustrated with all the cortizone and started to do some research on line and found out there is a veterinary dermatologist not even 15 minutes away from me. I was very upset that the GP vet didn't make a recommendation and put Jazzie in harm by compermizing her immune system with all the steroids he kept on giving her. No wonder she kept on getting worse then better! The steroids were making her worse! It only looked better on the surface!

The visit to the derm vet was wonderful. Jazzie has been steroid fee for 3 years now.

Jewel's Story:

Jewel was diagnosed with a terminal brain infection last year. After several tests with our new GP vet, he recommended we go to a veterinary neurologist for further testing. We did and found out about the infection. As her disease progressed our Neuro Vet recommended we start Jewel on "a very mild chemo therapy" I researched the "medicine" and found out how terrible this treatment is. So I did more reserch and found an Alternative Medicine doctor and Jewel didn't have to be subjected to any chemo. Every time I had an appointment I asked for extra time to be scheduled with the doctor so I can go over a list of questions. The doctor didn't mind at all that I questioned the recommended treatments or asked him to explain the blood test results.

[Rem&Silkmom]

I think first and foremost most people do trust thier vets until they are given a reason not to. Vets are supposed to be the experts when it comes to our animals care...however they are human and make mistakes.

I think that some of the things stated above are true...however I would question a few. I say go with your gut...if you feel you need a second opinion go for it.

If a vet is having a bad day and it tired and takes it out on my or my pet...I'll find someone else who is happy to have my business. When I'm having a bad day I certainly don't take it out on my vet. I know everyone is human but I would not want a surgeon to operate on me that was having a bad day.

I'm sorry but my recent experience with my vet and Remmy's bladder stones was not a good one. I am highly dissapointed with her service and diagnosis. My Remmy had bladder stones lodged in his uretha before another vet finally found them.

My vet just wanted to send me home with meds everytime I called to tell her there was something wrong with him. I don't think she had the experience that would have told her to keep trying different tests until they were found. I was told that when my perfectly trained 3 year old boy was peeing all over the house that it was behavioral. They put him on steriod, antitriplamine (sp) which if for nervousness....He was not nervous...

The vet knew on every occasion that I brought him in that he had blood in his urine and she could not explain it...but ignored that and kept giving him meds.

I think it depends on your gut whether you need a second opinion or not. Needless to say another vet found Remmy's stones with a simple test done in the office.

[yorkieskater]

I wish I hadn't of trusted many of the vets I've gone too but I have also met some great ones...but that was because I shopped around. I did my own research. I decide what is best for my dog. when I take him to the vet, I listen to their suggestions, I research, and I decide if I will follow it or go and talk to someone else. Holistic and conventional medicine saved my last dog. If I had listened to the one vet, he would have never made it. I am happy that I went to different people and did the reserach that I did.
I am new to the area I am living in now. I have gone to two vets. One was okay and I may use her but she is 45min away. I wanted a closer one for emergencies. The second one I met with was a jerk and way behind on the times. I will have to shop around for a second one close in case of emergencies (nearest emergency clinic is 45min away). I am driving 2 1/2 hours thursday just to get my dog neutered. I shopped around, asked questions, and this place seems like they do things the way I like and has a lot of experience. They are also holistic AND conventional. I like the combination. Anyways, people think I am nuts, but when it comes to my dogs health care...I have had too many bad experiences at vets that now I have learned to shop around. We are human and so are vets. One vet can't know everything especially with the new changing times.
suzie