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05-15-2017, 03:55 PM | #31 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: USA
Posts: 169
| Quote:
Look, Every breed has to start somewhere. It almost seems to me like you believe "reputable" breeders are like another species of being or ordained by God. They are just people and they all got their start with two dogs. They are just as capable of testing and researching the line of the purebreds they choose to cross as any other breeder. I am not sure where you get the info that would allow you to paint them all with such a broad brush...... My comment on "labs" is referring to the fact that labs are a popular breed and shelters and rescues toss that label out there to draw people in riding on their love and familiarity with labs with no actual tests to prove the dogs have any lab in them and are quite often pit-mixes but lab is less controversial and won't be prohibited on insurance policies, and land on the list of banned dogs in homeowners associations and apartment complexes. | |
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05-15-2017, 04:38 PM | #32 | |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
| Quote:
__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! | |
05-17-2017, 01:14 PM | #33 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Pearce, Az, USA
Posts: 159
| When people don't do the right thing with other species - it's the pits!! |
05-23-2017, 11:46 PM | #34 |
YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 2,776
| I'm a dinosaur, grew up on a dairy farm and we only used a vet for the cows, period. So...when Ginger (little mix) had puppies, one might look like a pure border collie, another pure lab, another just goofy-lookin'--but they were just plain mutts! Cute as the dickens, sweet and smart, but mutts. Who knew we had designer dogs?! Another point, a veterinarian helping me to convince friend to neuter his purebred rottweiler, explained that it was more unnatural for a dog (male or female) capable of breeding, but never allowed to do so than to 'fix' the animal who enjoys a bigger life and doesn't know what he/she is missing! My friend "got" that, got over that common guy thing, and sensibly neutered his dog. |
05-24-2017, 11:22 AM | #35 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Pearce, Az, USA
Posts: 159
| Quote:
I think the dogs prefer to be called hybrids, lol. Actually, they don't care, as long as you love em. The common guy thing, is the misnomer that you're taking away the dog's sex life by neutering them. But neutering/castration only affects primates. Other animals actually have a "bone." Years ago my sister had a dog neutered. She came home to the boy & girl going at it again & thought the surgery went wrong. | |
05-24-2017, 12:59 PM | #36 | |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
| Quote:
__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! | |
05-24-2017, 01:04 PM | #37 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Pearce, Az, USA
Posts: 159
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05-24-2017, 01:35 PM | #38 |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
| I'm hopping that's a joke too......
__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! |
05-24-2017, 01:41 PM | #39 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Pearce, Az, USA
Posts: 159
| Fortunately, yes. Though I am not against them. (Just not looking for one.) If I had money & resources; I actually would love to experiment & see if wolves can be domesticated (& become more doglike) the same way foxes can. I'm betting on yes, cause environment usually wins out. |
05-24-2017, 02:07 PM | #40 | |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
| Quote:
__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! | |
05-24-2017, 02:20 PM | #41 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Pearce, Az, USA
Posts: 159
| Actually most states allow it, but some have restrictions or permits you have to get. I read a book on wolves, The Wolf Almanac, by Robert H. Busch, and it talked about this too. |
05-24-2017, 02:41 PM | #42 |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
| I still don't think it's a good thing or the right thing to do in my opinion.
__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! |
05-24-2017, 03:12 PM | #43 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Pearce, Az, USA
Posts: 159
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05-24-2017, 06:03 PM | #44 | |
♥ Love My Tibbe! ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: D/FW, Texas
Posts: 22,140
| Quote:
But taming is all it is, as apparently from all I've read, wolves lack the gene or the location on the gene or something like that which activates the brain to adapt true, lasting domesticity tendencies as foxes and canines have, though many geneticists, animal behaviorists and many research facilities have tried, going back tens of decades or more. I've read two or three books on the subject that explain the wolf brain simply doesn't react to tameness attempts the same as foxes and canines, using the very same environmental domestication efforts over generations of wolf lines. There are a lot of differing opinions on wolves but, basically, as I understand it, there has never been a genetically-pure wolf, permanently temperamentally-altered, fully, reliably tame/domesticated wolf ever achieved by environmental methods. Wolves can be long-term tamed as long as they remain in a confined, domestic situation, usually requiring an alpha-type leader, as they can react very differently in domestic confinement than in nature. Isn't it the Russians, Scandinavians, Hungarians - forget exactly who all - who have done so many studies on developing domesticated wolves in confinement and eventually working to explain why wolves have never been fully domesticated or permanently tamed as a species, even when raised by a human family with the parents in a domestic home setting from breeding through pup- to adulthood. Their pups always are always born wild as I understand. It's true, any wild animal can have the odd pup that produces far less adrenaline or fear-reaction to human nearness and more readily adapts to taming but wolf basic-species genetics haven't changed from its wild nature. I've read wolves are like lions, tigers and bears and certainly some can be tamed but forever remain genetically wild unless one tosses aside environment and tries cross-breeding them with dogs or other species and then they are essentially no longer wolves but genetically-altered wolf hybrids. Apparently shortly after wolves are separated from their human pack, they readily revert back to the wild. While dogs may become feral and wild-like due to loss of their domestic home situation, they can readily, easily be returned to their domesticated nature and always whelp domesticated, tame puppies. I've always read tamed wolves can be mercurial and even when tamed are always to be considered temperamentally unreliable, like the tamed lion, tiger and bear. As yet, as far as I know, no researchers have yet ever truly tamed or genetically domesticated the wolf environmentally so that they consistently retain wholly domestic tendencies or reliably birth tame, domesticated young. But now that I've grown to appreciate more of Nature for what it is, I see that wolves are so very lovely and unique in their natural, wild, free complexity of character, I would never try to change even one of them.
__________________ Jeanie and Tibbe One must do the best one can. You may get some marks for a very imperfect answer: you will certainly get none for leaving the question alone. C. S. Lewis | |
05-25-2017, 08:45 AM | #45 |
YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 2,776
| By definition any enclosure is cruel for a wolf. Any part wolf/domestic canine will always be wolf--dangerous, unpredictable and it's terrible for the animal. I believe genetics, that that behavior, will always win out over environment. Even purebred dogs, though far, far removed from their original "jobs" easily exhibit traits they were originally bred for...It's the nature of the beast, if you will...! |
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