Questions about low income people and dogs

[FlyingNimbus]

I kind of always wondered, how would a person or a family of low income or disability be able to properly financially care for a dog? Are there some sort of resources for people like that?

I know people will say if you can't afford it, don't own it. But those who just happen to be low income but not like - out on the streets low income and just need a little help on it?

I ask because I had a friend who was like that; she came into possession of a stray mutt and she was able to keep them by sacrificing going out, and other non-necessary but fun things... Like if she went to the movies often, liked to dine out, liked to do other things which she could sort of afford but stopped because of that.

But my question is, for people like that, or slightly less fortunate are they able to own a dog? I mean without it being bad for the dog...

I don't think a less fortunate should be barred from having the joys of having a dog but at the same time, a dogs health is more important.

I also knew people like that when I worked in retail.

Im kind of curious if there's even a way of making it work? Without sacrificing the persons health/needs, or the dogs health/needs.

My grandmother before she passed away was unfortunate enough to have to live in a retirement home that wasn't that great(she lived far from us and wouldnt leave the area-- didnt want to) but she was rather alone, and I feel she would had benefit from having a senior dog/cat to keep her company and keep her mind busy... She was pretty old (90) but she was still rather fit and was able to move around a lot without much problem(just slower).

Obviously for seniors the dogs nails would have to be kept trimmed and rounded off.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by FlyingNimbus

I kind of always wondered, how would a person or a family of low income or disability be able to properly financially care for a dog? Are there some sort of resources for people like that?

I know people will say if you can't afford it, don't own it. But those who just happen to be low income but not like - out on the streets low income and just need a little help on it?

I ask because I had a friend who was like that; she came into possession of a stray mutt and she was able to keep them by sacrificing going out, and other non-necessary but fun things... Like if she went to the movies often, liked to dine out, liked to do other things which she could sort of afford but stopped because of that.

But my question is, for people like that, or slightly less fortunate are they able to own a dog? I mean without it being bad for the dog...

I don't think a less fortunate should be barred from having the joys of having a dog but at the same time, a dogs health is more important.

I also knew people like that when I worked in retail.

Im kind of curious if there's even a way of making it work? Without sacrificing the persons health/needs, or the dogs health/needs.

My grandmother before she passed away was unfortunate enough to have to live in a retirement home that wasn't that great(she lived far from us and wouldnt leave the area-- didnt want to) but she was rather alone, and I feel she would had benefit from having a senior dog/cat to keep her company and keep her mind busy... She was pretty old (90) but she was still rather fit and was able to move around a lot without much problem(just slower).

Obviously for seniors the dogs nails would have to be kept trimmed and rounded off.

There are many programs that help low income and seniors care for their pets. Here is an example of one of them: C.A.R.E4Paws | Home

I would recommend making a donation to programs such as these to help them serve more people.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by pstinard

There are many programs that help low income and seniors care for their pets. Here is an example of one of them: C.A.R.E4Paws | Home

I would recommend making a donation to programs such as these to help them serve more people.

Oh ok. Yeah donating sounds good. I'd like to pass it forward sometime.

I personally want to get a dog I can train to be an emotional support animal, and by training I mean, train it to pee/poop outside(never indoors), walk on leash/harness, socialize it so when in new environments it always stays calm and doesn't bark or bite or you know...

Basically mold it into a well mannered dog, that is peaceful, non-reaction, friendly, never aggressive. (last thing I want is someone suing me because a small dog bit them).

So that it could go anywhere with me and not be of a bother. Well anywhere that is sanitary. I'd avoid taking it to say a food joint, a hospital(Well not sure- maybe if its not the E.R.) for sanitary reasons. Then again hospitals are actually unsanitary to begin with...

[yorkiemini]

Originally Posted by FlyingNimbus

Oh ok. Yeah donating sounds good. I'd like to pass it forward sometime.

I personally want to get a dog I can train to be an emotional support animal, and by training I mean, train it to pee/poop outside(never indoors), walk on leash/harness, socialize it so when in new environments it always stays calm and doesn't bark or bite or you know...

Basically mold it into a well mannered dog, that is peaceful, non-reaction, friendly, never aggressive. (last thing I want is someone suing me because a small dog bit them).

So that it could go anywhere with me and not be of a bother. Well anywhere that is sanitary. I'd avoid taking it to say a food joint, a hospital(Well not sure- maybe if its not the E.R.) for sanitary reasons. Then again hospitals are actually unsanitary to begin with...

Just to clarify - you have the right idea to train your ESA, but understand that they do not have the same privileges as a Service Animal. They give you some rights to housing and accompany on planes, but ant place that says Service Dogs Only does not include ESA. Many places are generous with dogs though. Federal buildings are not usually.

Go to the department of Justice site and read the ADA laws.

Good luck!

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by yorkiemini

Just to clarify - you have the right idea to train your ESA, but understand that they do not have the same privileges as a Service Animal. They give you some rights to housing and accompany on planes, but ant place that says Service Dogs Only does not include ESA. Many places are generous with dogs though. Federal buildings are not usually.

Go to the department of Justice site and read the ADA laws.

Good luck!

I saw the website for ESA said they allow you to be with them in housing, planes, and a few other things.

[Wylie's Mom]

Interesting subject, it always is, really. There are tons of charities for this type of situation....but...unfortunately the reality is that these orgs come and go...most of them GONE or going. And to qualify, they make it VERY tough. So to me, there is nothing reliable here for lower income situations EXCEPT getting a very good/strong pet insurance where the person *can* afford to at least pay those monthly premiums...and that's not usually going to be the case.

I don't believe living creatures should be in the care of someone who can't afford proper care. But then we have to define "proper care" and what "basic care" means too, right?

I would love to say that anyone who wants an animal's love should have one -- but that's just not the truth of how I feel. Animals are wayyyyyy too vulnerable to human beings -- at our mercy, really. And bc of that, we need to protect them from ourselves.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Interesting subject, it always is, really. There are tons of charities for this type of situation....but...unfortunately the reality is that these orgs come and go...most of them GONE or going. And to qualify, they make it VERY tough. So to me, there is nothing reliable here for lower income situations EXCEPT getting a very good/strong pet insurance where the person *can* afford to at least pay those monthly premiums...and that's not usually going to be the case.

I don't believe living creatures should be in the care of someone who can't afford proper care. But then we have to define "proper care" and what "basic care" means too, right?

I would love to say that anyone who wants an animal's love should have one -- but that's just not the truth of how I feel. Animals are wayyyyyy too vulnerable to human beings -- at our mercy, really. And bc of that, we need to protect them from ourselves.

Mmm I am saying, if they're in the position they can afford really basic things for themselves, such as a home, food, bed. A home can be an apartment, etc. Then why not a program that helps them finding some companionship. I really don't think people shouldn't be allowed to have a pet just because they're income is iffy.... as long as they're needs are met some way or another...

I say this, because what makes it a better home that a person with a higher paying job can get it? I mean, a higher paying job no doubt implies more time in that job. The average person works 8 or more hours a day... So if the dog is awake for 12 hours a day out of the 24 hours, or say its awake for 15hours out of the 24... Why would one assume that their home would be better? Yes they can afford things better, but that also means the dog will probably be alone for 8hours or more a day- because lets face it. We work for a living and we can't afford to work less. Now this would be solved if the person had a spouse who they could alternate or even kids as well...

So it means dogs are really only suitable for high income homes with responsible kids... because from what I see, most married couples end up working(both of them).... so whose left behind to keep fido company? A dog being a social animal shouldn't be left alone for more than 4-6 hours tbh. Preferably no more than 4.

So really, people can find all sorts of justifications they want and look down on the people that are currently borderline poor... but they may have a bit more time on their hand s to at least keep the dog company.


You can say that you can hire someone to keep the dog company but I don't think the dog will be happy staying with a stranger for a long period of time...

Basic care simply means the hands down essentials. A dog can be fed a lower cost diet than what we feed our dog and still be healthy. Just need to look for it more or prepare it themselves.

A dog needs good quality food(you don't need to buy that food that claims to be imported meats and stuff because we both know that they're probably not imported as companies tend to lie), clean cool water, a clean space for them to be in with room to romp around (i.e. a tiled big room for a small dog, or the run of the house for a much bigger dog), a bed(I've seen dog beds out there and you don't need to buy that 200+ dollar bed that claims to be a dogs dream bed- as a dog will sleep just about anywhere comfortable and clean), some sturdy toys, vet visits, shots, etc.


But from the time I worked in that petstore there were people who would buy expensive water bowls that claimed to do a certain thing like actually filter the water- but when you took the mechanism apart you could see it wouldn't affect much of water quality and the stuff added wouldn't remove any hard metals- it would just be basic carbon which only does so much...

Or the really expensive 200 dollar beds that you could make yourself for 1/4 of the price tag... provided you can do some basic upholstery, and basic high school carpentry... or really, look at our dog and the time some clean clothes fell off my bed because I put them there and left to do something and I come back and find out that our dog did a little nest with them and slept on them.... or the time the sofa pillows(the loose ones) fell on the floor and she used it and slept on it....


There's really expensive foods out there that claim to be high quality but are quite the opposite and it's funny because some brands claim to be different but they're made by the same manufacturer...

I mean I admit not all dog foods are the same-- but I am saying you can find some good food-- excellent even if you're resourceful enough and read all of the labels... Besides, companies in general go for the cheaper materials available to save on costs and keep their income high... it's basic business. A better alternative and much cheaper would be making their own food raw... just boiling it for a short time to kill anything bad in it...


For the vet, shots, emergencies, check up, I am sure if you look through pet insurances there will be a few around that while may seem high in price actually have a better pay off rate from what Ive been told. So instead of one day having to pay thousands of dollars for that surgery that became an emergency, now you pay 0 or become refunded. Only having to pay 50 or so a month which maybe easier on someone who is on low income but isnt so low.


I agree someone without a place of their own, living on the streets exposed to the elements, with very little food money for themselves really shouldn't be owning a dog or an animal for that matter... not until they get themselves into a better standing... but someone who just makes a bit over enough to make meets end, and still have enough for simple things should be allowed, and if it's not so much enough I don't see any problem helping them out. Personally, when my friend was in a rough spot because she lost her job and couldnt afford the cat(it was so sudden) I pitched in and helped her out with the cat. Mind you, I actually hate cats, but I didnt want to see them be separated.


To be honest, what I'd like to see in the US is for there to be virtually no actual "poverty" and the term re-defined to mean someone on the lower end of the income spectrum but still able to afford basic needs, and some commodities.... Instead of what it seems the rich getting richer; while the unfortunate becoming poorer and more unfortunate.... as there is essentially no "middle-class" anymore... But that is a political view I guess. In general, I'd just like to see the world happier and taken care of so that everyone can enjoy the little things in life, and those who wish it, but could otherwise not afford or be able to at least enjoy some animal companionship.


If I could be of any impact I would love to fix society a bit-- like I am sure many want to do as well... Fairness, equality, is what I'd love to see the most.


----

By the way I kind of want to point out that I know quite a bit of people who own animals like dogs and are barely home to even pay it attention... only there to walk it, change the water but not to spend time playing with it... mean while the dog is left at home all alone with nothing to do... which upsets me to think about.

[Rachael1983]

I've seen in some major cities (ie NYC, Chicago, DC, LA) where homeless people did in fact have pets. They do have access to basic care through programs through the city. I think this is a great program actually so I don't think this limits people who may want a dog.

Further to this, people who have low incomes, lets say below the poverty line which is ~36K/year, I've seen families give loving, happy, healthy homes to a pet.

Just because someone doesn't make a substantial amount of money does not make them unqualified to own a pet. Time and responsibility makes owning a pet possible. Granted there are costs that may come up that make be rate limiting (example dog gets cancer or breaks something) the pet parent may make the hard choice to put that dog down instead of give chemo or 5k surgery. It doesn't take away from their love for the pet or the life they may have provided for that animal. We can't judge anyone for that because they may be taking funds and resources from a child or an elderly parent they are taking care of. Everyone's life has circumstances and an individual has their own right to know which circumstances will allow them to make a responsible choice in owning a pet or not.

So my two cents is that yes a low income person can own a pet.

[canana]

Oh this is interesting to learn. I have always been curious how the homeless people in my city all have a dog. It seems nice they have a friend to keep them warm during the cold winter months, but I always wondered/worried about the health and well-being of the dogs of the homeless.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by Rachael1983

I've seen in some major cities (ie NYC, Chicago, DC, LA) where homeless people did in fact have pets. They do have access to basic care through programs through the city. I think this is a great program actually so I don't think this limits people who may want a dog.

Further to this, people who have low incomes, lets say below the poverty line which is ~36K/year, I've seen families give loving, happy, healthy homes to a pet.

Just because someone doesn't make a substantial amount of money does not make them unqualified to own a pet. Time and responsibility makes owning a pet possible. Granted there are costs that may come up that make be rate limiting (example dog gets cancer or breaks something) the pet parent may make the hard choice to put that dog down instead of give chemo or 5k surgery. It doesn't take away from their love for the pet or the life they may have provided for that animal. We can't judge anyone for that because they may be taking funds and resources from a child or an elderly parent they are taking care of. Everyone's life has circumstances and an individual has their own right to know which circumstances will allow them to make a responsible choice in owning a pet or not.

So my two cents is that yes a low income person can own a pet.

I totally agree about the low income people being able to give a pet a good home. I just can't see a homeless person with a dog... mostly because I wouldn't know where that person would be able to go and keep the dog safe? Do they go to a homeless shelter and allowed to live there or? Mostly because living outside means being exposed to the elements, and in NYC I'd be hard pressed to say that a dog would be healthy living outside(asides of the obvious fumes, and stuff-- outside temperatures can reach below freezing, more so with the valley effect the buildings have on the city).

I do however think that people should be able to own a dog even if they're not so well off.. There should be programs that won't end, and are able to provide those families' pet with food, vet care, medicines, and their basic needs... I think humans should be looking after one another instead of being so snooty and looking down on the less fortunate... because poverty can happen to anyone and everyone. In fact, what we consider poor today probably used to be middle class a decade or two ago.

What about those disabled folks who have it worse than us? Some can't enjoy a lot of things non-disabled people can.. but why should they be denied the most basic fundamental happiness society can provide?

To be quite honest, I suffer from clinical depression and while it's nothing as bad as other folks may have... I can quite say that a dog has elevated my moods and done things where modern medicine has failed to do....


I feel bad because I imagine my friends father whose back is so bad he can't even move much without pain, something chronic I think she mentioned that the doctors told him.

They have cats, and I don't think I could see him without his cats.... The man clearly loves them and spends his time with them. So whose to say he's not a better owner than a certain someone I know who makes a big salary, could essentially own a small mansion if they -really- wanted, could have a lot of things but most of his time is at his job. He works about 10-11 hours a day, and when he gets home he's probably too tired to do anything much less to actually attend his own dog.

He hires pet sitters to look after his dogs, feed, walk, water them, take them out to do their business.

But I doubt even the average middle class person would even consider doing that... as I already know a lot of middle class people with dogs and they leave their dogs unattended, granted they just leave them a lot of water bowls, and puppy pads.. but I don't think a dog should be left alone for more than 4 hours unless it's urgent/emergency.... and even then someone should still be looking after them.

Just like you wouldn't- and couldn't legally leave a really young child on their own without parental or adult supervision.

They wouldn't be happy and could get into trouble.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by canana

Oh this is interesting to learn. I have always been curious how the homeless people in my city all have a dog. It seems nice they have a friend to keep them warm during the cold winter months, but I always wondered/worried about the health and well-being of the dogs of the homeless.

lol you don't mention the owners well being. just kidding, I know what you mean.

I worry too(well now I do)...

When I went to puerto rico a few years back... I remember going to old San Juan, and in the parking lot there was clearly a druggie lady (or maybe she was just drunk) sitting on the sidewalk entrance to the parking lot(the indoor ones you see in NYC with multiple levels)... Well she was jigglying around her paper cup with some change already in it...

I felt really bad for her but I noticed something was off, she also had a small dog(or it was a puppy) on a leash/collar and it was tied to her wrist.... the dog was on some news paper she left on the ground (I guess so that if the dog had to defecate or urinate it would be in place).

I actually brought her a cold water bottle from the near by vending machine as I didn't want to contribute to more drug abuse(from what I saw)... I left it on the floor near her because she didn't take it, mentioned she wanted a coke. I got her the water because I was thinking she would share it with the dog as well.

The dog had obvious signs of fleas or ticks.. but otherwise he /she looked rather healthy... So asides from the parasites they looked okay.


Today I feel bad, because in retrospect I could had walked a 5-6 blocks and found her some food.... but we were in a rush and it was a rather steep walk. Still... wish I could had brought her a bag of food for herself and a bag of dog food for the dog... and a bowl for the dog...

But there were no petstores, nor any stores that would sell that kind of stuff close by(or even within the city).

I didn't like seeing the dog leashed because I wonder if that dog had anywhere he could run around and play...

A dog kept alive with food, water, vet/medicine but won't be allowed to play or run around... is a dog that isn't very much alive-- now is it?

[Rachael1983]

[QUOTE=FlyingNimbus;4714221]I totally agree about the low income people being able to give a pet a good home. I just can't see a homeless person with a dog... mostly because I wouldn't know where that person would be able to go and keep the dog safe? Do they go to a homeless shelter and allowed to live there or? Mostly because living outside means being exposed to the elements, and in NYC I'd be hard pressed to say that a dog would be healthy living outside(asides of the obvious fumes, and stuff-- outside temperatures can reach below freezing, more so with the valley effect the buildings have on the city).

I'm not 100% sure on the details however I know its done. The elements aren't ideal however people make it work and those dogs provide protection, love and warmth to an often overlooked population. I'm not one to judge so if the city or non-profits are available to them, they know how to seek the resource to keep their pets. Just because we can't see how it can be healthy living outside, doesn't mean the dog isn't healthy. I think we all have some exposure to pollution so I don't consider that a major concern.

[FlyingNimbus]

[quote=Rachael1983;4714317]

Originally Posted by FlyingNimbus

I totally agree about the low income people being able to give a pet a good home. I just can't see a homeless person with a dog... mostly because I wouldn't know where that person would be able to go and keep the dog safe? Do they go to a homeless shelter and allowed to live there or? Mostly because living outside means being exposed to the elements, and in NYC I'd be hard pressed to say that a dog would be healthy living outside(asides of the obvious fumes, and stuff-- outside temperatures can reach below freezing, more so with the valley effect the buildings have on the city).

I'm not 100% sure on the details however I know its done. The elements aren't ideal however people make it work and those dogs provide protection, love and warmth to an often overlooked population. I'm not one to judge so if the city or non-profits are available to them, they know how to seek the resource to keep their pets. Just because we can't see how it can be healthy living outside, doesn't mean the dog isn't healthy. I think we all have some exposure to pollution so I don't consider that a major concern.

I understand, though I will note some exposure to pollution isn't the same as being in a smog-filled environment.. I mean it can't get worse than I think main-land china(heard the pollution there is seriously high) but it's still pretty bad.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Rachael1983

I've seen in some major cities (ie NYC, Chicago, DC, LA) where homeless people did in fact have pets. They do have access to basic care through programs through the city. I think this is a great program actually so I don't think this limits people who may want a dog.

Further to this, people who have low incomes, lets say below the poverty line which is ~36K/year, I've seen families give loving, happy, healthy homes to a pet.

Just because someone doesn't make a substantial amount of money does not make them unqualified to own a pet. Time and responsibility makes owning a pet possible. Granted there are costs that may come up that make be rate limiting (example dog gets cancer or breaks something) the pet parent may make the hard choice to put that dog down instead of give chemo or 5k surgery. It doesn't take away from their love for the pet or the life they may have provided for that animal. We can't judge anyone for that because they may be taking funds and resources from a child or an elderly parent they are taking care of. Everyone's life has circumstances and an individual has their own right to know which circumstances will allow them to make a responsible choice in owning a pet or not.

So my two cents is that yes a low income person can own a pet.

Some of the richest (wealthiest) dog owners that I walk dogs for are the worst whereas the lower income are the best owners they can possibly be.

The wealthiest are often the ones with the most time and money yet they don't do anything with their dogs, they are kept crated/gated away from the family most of the days, etc etc. It makes me sad how they are sometimes there as basically just puppets or wall ornaments for show.

(Not to say all rich people are horrible dog owners and all poor people are great dog owners ... but I am just saying not everything is so black or white).

I would rather see a dog in a loving home with someone who maybe can't afford a $10k surgery and live a fabulous life than on the streets, sitting in a shelter, etc.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by Britster

Some of the richest (wealthiest) dog owners that I walk dogs for are the worst whereas the lower income are the best owners they can possibly be.

The wealthiest are often the ones with the most time and money yet they don't do anything with their dogs, they are kept crated/gated away from the family most of the days, etc etc. It makes me sad how they are sometimes there as basically just puppets or wall ornaments for show.

(Not to say all rich people are horrible dog owners and all poor people are great dog owners ... but I am just saying not everything is so black or white).

I would rather see a dog in a loving home with someone who maybe can't afford a $10k surgery and live a fabulous life than on the streets, sitting in a shelter, etc.

To be honest, I agree with that. People should be given a chance, yeah there should still be laws protecting animals in general but I am saying like you said not everything is black and white...

Like you, I have seen my fair share of horrible rich pet owners who treat animals like trinkets, and objects.... and when they're done with them they're thrown out or left alone and ignored (Fed and all but still ignored).


It's why I have double feelings about shelters and rescues. They're not bad... just... there are people who could potentially be a good owner and yet they are overlooked and seen as bad owners...

There can be good poor pet owners, and bad poor pet owners; just the same with rich and in between.

It's not the money that truly matters; it's what it comes down to.


Like you I'd rather see an animal with a poor owner if it means the dog will live a happy fair life-- even if they can't afford such an expensive surgery. AND Who knows? They may not be able to afford it- but there are things like fund raisers or gofundme and you know-- there are stories of people being funded and their loved ones being fixed.

In reality there are ways to make up for what you lack. As long as you have faith in society eventually something good is bound to happen.


I just think low income families, "certain" disabled individuals, etc who can actually take care of their pets be allowed to it and be helped if possible.

But that's just my two cents. Things should be looked at a case by case basis, not blanketed.... That kind of mentality should be avoided.