Breeder vs Adopting?

[FlyingNimbus]

Hey guys. I have had this serious question/thought come to me constantly....

While I like the idea of buying a purebred dog, and having a dog that has their papers and all in order, comes from a genetically "clean" line(i.e. comes from parents with no genetic issues), and the fact that breeder usually means transparency...

I also like and was thinking of the idea of adopting. To give another chance to another animal in need is very good.... But I must confess a few things...

The drawback which makes me hesitate about adopting is that all of the dogs backgrounds are pretty obscure, even if they were just surrendered and people told them where they got them-- that doesn't really mean that the dog will not have "mental" issues...

By mental issues, I know that you can train a dog to do things you're okay with them doing, or at least train them to -not- do things you're -not- okay with them doing... But would an adoptable dog be less trainable? That's kind of what got to me. I mean as a puppy their minds are kind of like jello-- they're not set yet and they're easily moldable with some effort... but an older pup whose already got a bad behavior will probably present a bigger problem in training?

Not sure.


I say this, because when I was younger- a lot younger (early highschool days) we had this dog for 2 months that we had adopted... He was this wire haired fox terrier, and I admit I didn't do much research on the breed... but we went on petfinder and found a dog that was "cute" because I at the time was being subjected to someone elses' demands on a dog.

At the time I just wanted a dog-- any dog... however one of my parents just wanted a cute dog but she was so specific....

So we went through lots of dogs and saw that this one had on it's page labeled as already potty trained, well-behaved, etc.... but when we got home that wasn't the case....

The dog would howl and bark every night for no apparent reason... He would chew on the sofa legs(the legs still have marks on there from him), he would urinate everywhere-- and when he urinated he lifted his legs so doing that inside... well you know... (this is the "why" to one of the main reasons I never want a male dog anymore)


He actually wasn't trained at all. He was supposed to know "sit, stop, stay, come" and other basic things which he never knew.

We would walk him 2-3 times a day and each time for at least 2-3 hours as he never even tired... He was already 2 years old and he was really crazy, he was neutered and -still- humped things. A pillow fell to the floor and he kept humping that.


He got aggressive with his toys or anything he claimed to be his...

We tried everything from the information provided to us, and the information found in books. Nothing seemed to work with him...


He was always hyper, and by hyper I mean like jack russel "doped up" if you know what I mean....

Anytime we went outside to walk it he would bark at every dog non-stop even after they left....



We went on to adopt him because my friend at the time had one of her own and her own dog was "balanced".... it was active but it wasn't like a kid on a never ending sugar rush...


Needless to say, we ended up giving up after 2 months and a half because it was just too much for us to handle at the time.... Nothing we did ever worked, no amount of training, nothing... I honestly felt inadequate so I thought I'd take it back to see if someone would have better luck.

Funny thing is because when we brought it back they mentioned he was brought back a few times... which they failed to mentioned first time around... they also failed to mention there was a fee for bringing it back... So a 350 + fee for adopting + 350 fee for dropping it off....

We sort of felt seriously duped.... I know I am among animal lovers but I wasn't prepared for something like that at the time. We wanted something mid energy that we could have fun but when it's time to go to sleep it wouldnt keep us up all night...

After that we never adopted again, and my mothers dog was bought for her from some breeder(probably a byb) and her dog had her "annoying" period but it never even got to 1/10th of how it was with him.....


The thing is... I kind of want to adopt.. but I am also afraid of being lied to again-- because clearly that dog was never trained, never calm and was not kid friendly....

I clearly gave up too early; but I was hoping that if I adopt it's either a puppy with an "untouched" mind if that makes sense or if someone screwed up teaching it, it wont be something that I can't change...

I am afraid of being told one thing, but then when I get it -- it's completely different than what we were told.. I mean I get it, they wanted to find the dog a good home.. but lying about it when people have clearly different dispositions, and different needs than others won't help anyone...

There are people who like active crazy dogs, but there are people who like calm and moderate dogs... I fall into the latter.

I first thought out this breed because I distinctly recall my aunt had this yorkie and since the yorkie was a puppy it was always calm, playful, and moderate. It wasn't bouncing off the walls when it was an adult...




Can people shed some light on this matter?


P.s. I am fully aware that a puppy can turn out either way-- but my point of it was that if it's from a breeder and the parents have a specific disposition, and you take the time to train them-- they wont be like that. I feel that once a dog learns a bad habit it's hard to break off.




Incidentally, I am rather curious-- why was the dog barking all night long? We left it alone at night in the living room, crated, with blankets, and covered the cage for the most part(it was cold) turned off the lights...

We also tried sleeping with it in my room, we tried letting it sleep freely without a crate in the kitchen, we tried that in my room.


It ripped up stuff in my room, and it just kept pawing in the crate.... We always made sure it did number 1 and 2 right before we settled it for bed.





The other thing is, how can you be sure that say if it says is a yorkie- it actually is a yorkie and not a mutt? Or if they say its healthy, but then its actually not?


When I was young we just rescued dogs off the streets and rehomed them- we never actually went to a shelter to adopt except that one time. It's why I am cautious...

[pstinard]

First, I wouldn't adopt a dog off of Petfinder. I would go to the local humane society animal shelter and adopt a dog there. There are usually many to choose from, and they will let you take the dog out for a walk, play time, etc., to make sure that it is the right fit for you. If you are willing to adopt a dog, and the only consideration is how trainable it is, I would adopt a dog from the humane society animal shelter before getting a pure bred from a breeder (unless I was looking for a specific breed). Maybe I'm a little biased, but our local Champaign County Humane Society is top-notch, and they always let you check out a dog thoroughly before adoption.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by pstinard

First, I wouldn't adopt a dog off of Petfinder. I would go to the local humane society animal shelter and adopt a dog there. There are usually many to choose from, and they will let you take the dog out for a walk, play time, etc., to make sure that it is the right fit for you. If you are willing to adopt a dog, and the only consideration is how trainable it is, I would adopt a dog from the humane society animal shelter before getting a pure bred from a breeder (unless I was looking for a specific breed). Maybe I'm a little biased, but our local Champaign County Humane Society is top-notch, and they always let you check out a dog thoroughly before adoption.

I mean that sort of makes sense. There was a time I considered adopting off petfinder, and I contacted many people and they had so many ridiculous rules, and the majority didnt even respond back even if you messaged them again later on... or if you asked many questions you'd never get replied to.

My question is, how do you even know if a local shelter has a dog that you want or not? I hate to say it, but almost anytime I go to a shelter it's usually filled with pit bulls, and other big dogs... which are cute and all but just not my cup of tea.

The good thing about adopting is, that I could possibly find a morkie, or a chorkie, or some other mix, and there's probably no shortages of small dogs like chihuahuas if I can't seem to find a yorkie.

But I think I prefer a yorkie, and then maybe a chihuahua, brussels griffon, maltese, toy poodle, shih tzu... But my first choice would definitely be the yorkie.




How do you know what you're getting in a shelter is a certain age, and stuff? sure you'll be able to see the temperament but probably not the age.



Would you think looking through craigslist ads for adopting is bad idea?


P.s. what's your take on petfinder? I kind of feel that I see a lot of potential hoarders but that's just probably me imagining things... not really sure.

[dottiesyrky]

I agree that adopting can be a good idea if you are able to find the dog you want.
I don't believe petfinder is bad, as most good rescues do put their dogs on that site, or in this area it is so. As for shelters, I have found that they are not helpful in selecting new parents nor do they give much info re the history. One good idea is to go to a good breeder and see if they have any pups they have held back for show etc and when they get older they do not work out. Here you can get a dog with history and get a good idea as to temperament and behavior.
Good luck, it is a hard task but one has to be patient and ask lots of questions!

[dottiesyrky]

I forgot to mention a good Yorkie or small dog rescue is a great idea. They usually keep the dog for some time to assess temperament etc and are very careful to screen new parents. Often on petfinder the rescues are busy and also do ask a lot of questions to find the right home. This route worked well for me.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by FlyingNimbus

I mean that sort of makes sense. There was a time I considered adopting off petfinder, and I contacted many people and they had so many ridiculous rules, and the majority didnt even respond back even if you messaged them again later on... or if you asked many questions you'd never get replied to.

My question is, how do you even know if a local shelter has a dog that you want or not? I hate to say it, but almost anytime I go to a shelter it's usually filled with pit bulls, and other big dogs... which are cute and all but just not my cup of tea.

The good thing about adopting is, that I could possibly find a morkie, or a chorkie, or some other mix, and there's probably no shortages of small dogs like chihuahuas if I can't seem to find a yorkie.

But I think I prefer a yorkie, and then maybe a chihuahua, brussels griffon, maltese, toy poodle, shih tzu... But my first choice would definitely be the yorkie.




How do you know what you're getting in a shelter is a certain age, and stuff? sure you'll be able to see the temperament but probably not the age.



Would you think looking through craigslist ads for adopting is bad idea?


P.s. what's your take on petfinder? I kind of feel that I see a lot of potential hoarders but that's just probably me imagining things... not really sure.

Some humane society animal shelters will list photos of their adoptable dogs online so you know whether or not your breed of choice is available. You can take a look at Champaign County Humane Society's website to see how this works: Welcome . Just follow the link that says "Adopt a Pet." I just checked, and yes, there are a lot of pit bull mixes, but they do have a chihuahua that hasn't been adopted yet. Or just go to the animal shelter and check out the dogs in person. I find that they usually have more dogs up for adoption than just the ones they list online. The volunteers are usually pretty accurate when it comes to determining the age of the dog. They are examined by vets. Also, sometimes the person turning in the dog for adoption submits the dog along with its papers.

Craigslist is a horrible idea for adopting pets. You never know what kind of crazy people are on there, or whether they are being honest. Seriously, your local humane society animal shelter with real dogs that you can visit in person is your best bet.

About Petfinder, I have to admit that that's where I found my Bella . She came with AKC papers, and she turned out to be very healthy, other than an early problem with luxating patella that we had surgically corrected. The breeder let us visit his kennel and choose Bella from among her other charming siblings. I think I just got lucky.

[matese]

I adopted a fantastic 2.5 yo AKC yorkie, a gift from my vet, he was a surrender. I must be one in a thousand that knows the history of my rescue as I keep in contact with the previous owner and I have all his medical and AKC papers that was turned over when he was surrendered . He is 99.9% a perfect boy, the 1% he is not dog friendly lol. Adopting is a crap shoot as far as temperament, personality, trainable. It takes time, devotion, consistency and a lot of patience, but so well worth the work you put into it. Ask your vet about rescues, shelters. Your vet may even work with rescue teams as my vet does, that is how I got my boy, from the rescue team that she works with. Craigs list I would def. stay away from.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by pstinard

First, I wouldn't adopt a dog off of Petfinder. I would go to the local humane society animal shelter and adopt a dog there. There are usually many to choose from, and they will let you take the dog out for a walk, play time, etc., to make sure that it is the right fit for you. If you are willing to adopt a dog, and the only consideration is how trainable it is, I would adopt a dog from the humane society animal shelter before getting a pure bred from a breeder (unless I was looking for a specific breed). Maybe I'm a little biased, but our local Champaign County Humane Society is top-notch, and they always let you check out a dog thoroughly before adoption.

Petfinder is fine though? Shelters/rescues/human societies use it to list dogs all the time. Not sure why you wouldn't use petfinder as a source. Maybe you are thinking of another website. You can't *buy* dogs off petfinder. It is just to browse what is available and then you go to the physical shelter/etc where they are located.

As for breeder vs. adoption ... both options can be both great or horrible. It really depends on a lot of things. You CAN end up with a dog riddled with health & behavioral problems from a breeder and you can also end up with a perfect sweet dog from a shelter and vice versa. I think a lot of times what happens is really people just don't know how to pick a dog that fits them. You hear the saddest story or see the cutest dog and say "I want that one" and that's when people end up with issues many times. I know of trainers who will go WITH a person picking a new dog from a shelter and help them in their decision by knowing their major wants and needs and accessing the dog. And yes many dogs wind up in a shelter because of behavioral problems, often creating by the human who was unwilling or unable to train them properly, therefore they do sometimes come with slightly more 'baggage' I suppose.

If you go to a good breeder, they will be able to assist you in this too. Many breeders don't even let you choose a specific dog -- they will choose for you based upon your wants and needs in a dog since they know the pups best. But puppies are hard work too. There are benefits to adopting an adult dog -- usually already "programmed" to who they are going to be (kind of.. let me explain....) such as things like dog aggression, reactivity, barking, etc. What you see is what you get in a way. You can tweak behaviors you do not like through training and bonding of course. Whereas when you get a puppy, things could develop over time (through no fault of your own) and you wouldn't have been able to foresee it as a young puppy.

Anyway, between my 2 dogs... so I got Jackson (my giant Yorkie lol) from a not-so-great breeder. Just posted in a classifieds ad in the paper. She was definitely what you would call a backyard breeder. Got him at 9 weeks old. He's been an absolutely *amazing* dog. However it took a lot to get him there. I socialized the hell out of him and I've given him top notch care in general and lots of training etc.

We got Lola (family dog who turned into mine, kind of) from a really good breeder IMO. She is a mix (cockapoo) so some would question that but that's beside the point. Anyway. Night and day. She just came... good. No socialization was really needed (but I do it anyway of course), she loves kids, people, dogs, other animals, she has a great off switch but also a great play drive. She's kind of the perfect dog for most people honestly and it required very minimal effort. I do attribute some of that to her early stages of life.

Go with your gut. Don't be guilted into anything one way or another. Search for adoptable dogs and if you find and meet the right way - you are doing a GREAT thing! Many amazing dogs are in shelters. But there is nothing wrong with knowing what you want and finding the right breeder for you either.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

I agree that adopting can be a good idea if you are able to find the dog you want.
I don't believe petfinder is bad, as most good rescues do put their dogs on that site, or in this area it is so. As for shelters, I have found that they are not helpful in selecting new parents nor do they give much info re the history. One good idea is to go to a good breeder and see if they have any pups they have held back for show etc and when they get older they do not work out. Here you can get a dog with history and get a good idea as to temperament and behavior.
Good luck, it is a hard task but one has to be patient and ask lots of questions!

Not sure if yorkies are even held back considering they tend to make a small litter...

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by Britster

Petfinder is fine though? Shelters/rescues/human societies use it to list dogs all the time. Not sure why you wouldn't use petfinder as a source. Maybe you are thinking of another website. You can't *buy* dogs off petfinder. It is just to browse what is available and then you go to the physical shelter/etc where they are located.

As for breeder vs. adoption ... both options can be both great or horrible. It really depends on a lot of things. You CAN end up with a dog riddled with health & behavioral problems from a breeder and you can also end up with a perfect sweet dog from a shelter and vice versa. I think a lot of times what happens is really people just don't know how to pick a dog that fits them. You hear the saddest story or see the cutest dog and say "I want that one" and that's when people end up with issues many times. I know of trainers who will go WITH a person picking a new dog from a shelter and help them in their decision by knowing their major wants and needs and accessing the dog. And yes many dogs wind up in a shelter because of behavioral problems, often creating by the human who was unwilling or unable to train them properly, therefore they do sometimes come with slightly more 'baggage' I suppose.

If you go to a good breeder, they will be able to assist you in this too. Many breeders don't even let you choose a specific dog -- they will choose for you based upon your wants and needs in a dog since they know the pups best. But puppies are hard work too. There are benefits to adopting an adult dog -- usually already "programmed" to who they are going to be (kind of.. let me explain....) such as things like dog aggression, reactivity, barking, etc. What you see is what you get in a way. You can tweak behaviors you do not like through training and bonding of course. Whereas when you get a puppy, things could develop over time (through no fault of your own) and you wouldn't have been able to foresee it as a young puppy.

Anyway, between my 2 dogs... so I got Jackson (my giant Yorkie lol) from a not-so-great breeder. Just posted in a classifieds ad in the paper. She was definitely what you would call a backyard breeder. Got him at 9 weeks old. He's been an absolutely *amazing* dog. However it took a lot to get him there. I socialized the hell out of him and I've given him top notch care in general and lots of training etc.

We got Lola (family dog who turned into mine, kind of) from a really good breeder IMO. She is a mix (cockapoo) so some would question that but that's beside the point. Anyway. Night and day. She just came... good. No socialization was really needed (but I do it anyway of course), she loves kids, people, dogs, other animals, she has a great off switch but also a great play drive. She's kind of the perfect dog for most people honestly and it required very minimal effort. I do attribute some of that to her early stages of life.

Go with your gut. Don't be guilted into anything one way or another. Search for adoptable dogs and if you find and meet the right way - you are doing a GREAT thing! Many amazing dogs are in shelters. But there is nothing wrong with knowing what you want and finding the right breeder for you either.

That makes sense, I kind of dont like how they put sob stories to them. I mean I get it, they're trying to rehome them and appeal to peoples pity and stuff... but it kind of creates an "impulse buy" situation... where you're not really sure if it's right for you but you take it because you felt sorry for it.

Some people are able to give those dogs better homes. It's all about finding the appropriate home for each one. A better patience individual would work wonders with a dog that's got a plethora of issues.


Things can develop over time, but they usually can be fixed before it becomes bad. That's kind of why I liked puppies.

To be honest the idea of raising it as a baby and being with it till its final days sounds appealing to me. It builds a stronger bond imho.


I just didn't want to get a dog that has no history and people say is 2 years old and it turns out it's actually 10 years old or 12 and somehow within a few months it becomes really sick on its own and has to be put down. It'd be too soon if that makes sense.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by matese

I adopted a fantastic 2.5 yo AKC yorkie, a gift from my vet, he was a surrender. I must be one in a thousand that knows the history of my rescue as I keep in contact with the previous owner and I have all his medical and AKC papers that was turned over when he was surrendered . He is 99.9% a perfect boy, the 1% he is not dog friendly lol. Adopting is a crap shoot as far as temperament, personality, trainable. It takes time, devotion, consistency and a lot of patience, but so well worth the work you put into it. Ask your vet about rescues, shelters. Your vet may even work with rescue teams as my vet does, that is how I got my boy, from the rescue team that she works with. Craigs list I would def. stay away from.

My vet? The only one who gets to see the vet is my mother because its her dog and she likes doing things solo.

To be honest, I thought about broadening my search after I stumbled upon this dog

https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/37758664


I normally search for just yorkies and chis but that day I was looking up a broad search and saw her photo and she just looked so sweet, friendly, submissive and docile personality. That's kind of what I like. The calm, friendly, submissive, docile that just likes to cuddle with you.

I actually looked up another breed of dog by accident and stumbled onto something called a "brussels griffon" and when I read about them, apparently they're velcro dogs. They like to stay by their owners constantly. I actually would enjoy that. I found some breeders, but majority of those breeders are out of business. Apparently a rather rare breed, another dog breed I looked up was something called a chinese crested, another type of velcro dog... but they're even rarer to find.


Stilll I remain loyal to the yorkie, just that one dog in particular got my interest. Except kind of wary because of the condition that she has, they say it wont get worse..

But that's what they said about the other adoptable dog I had before...

I would love the idea to take her in. But kind of wondering if that condition just makes her a little "denser" in the head.

Kind of thought of a nickname for her. "Scruffy" (it's a reference to a show called futurama because of her stache' ).

Just not sure if thats her actual age and stuff... or if she has any other serious underlying issues they never mentioned...

[matese]

Originally Posted by FlyingNimbus

My vet? The only one who gets to see the vet is my mother because its her dog and she likes doing things solo.

To be honest, I thought about broadening my search after I stumbled upon this dog

https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/37758664


I normally search for just yorkies and chis but that day I was looking up a broad search and saw her photo and she just looked so sweet, friendly, submissive and docile personality. That's kind of what I like. The calm, friendly, submissive, docile that just likes to cuddle with you.

I actually looked up another breed of dog by accident and stumbled onto something called a "brussels griffon" and when I read about them, apparently they're velcro dogs. They like to stay by their owners constantly. I actually would enjoy that. I found some breeders, but majority of those breeders are out of business. Apparently a rather rare breed, another dog breed I looked up was something called a chinese crested, another type of velcro dog... but they're even rarer to find.


Stilll I remain loyal to the yorkie, just that one dog in particular got my interest. Except kind of wary because of the condition that she has, they say it wont get worse..

But that's what they said about the other adoptable dog I had before...

I would love the idea to take her in. But kind of wondering if that condition just makes her a little "denser" in the head.

Kind of thought of a nickname for her. "Scruffy" (it's a reference to a show called futurama because of her stache' ).

Just not sure if thats her actual age and stuff... or if she has any other serious underlying issues they never mentioned...

If you're looking for a calm, friendly, submissive, docile dog that just likes to cuddle with you the yorkie is NOT for you, they are NOT calm, submissive or docile. Yorkies are high energy, mischievous, big attitude, bossy little imps, and that is what I LOVE about the breed. You may be better off with that lil cutie Gypsy.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by matese

If you're looking for a calm, friendly, submissive, docile dog that just likes to cuddle with you the yorkie is NOT for you, they are NOT calm, submissive or docile. Yorkies are high energy, mischievous, big attitude, bossy little imps, and that is what I LOVE about the breed. You may be better off with that lil cutie Gypsy.

So my aunts yorkie wasn't an ordinary example of them?

I was thinking of Gypsy but I wasn't so sure as if that was the only problem she had (health wise).

[matese]

Originally Posted by FlyingNimbus

So my aunts yorkie wasn't an ordinary example of them?

I was thinking of Gypsy but I wasn't so sure as if that was the only problem she had (health wise).

Sorry I didn't read the profile, I just read her entire profile, she has cerebellar hypoplasia, I would be looking for a healthy, sturdy dog, one that can take nice long walks.

If your aunt had a calm, submissive, docile yorkie she had a one of a kind yorkie lol, they do mellow out, calm down around 9 to 10 years old. My 4 girls slowed down at 10 years old, but were still mischievous, teasing little imps with a high prey drive. If your looking for calm, docile breeds I think you should stay away from the terrier breed.

[FlyingNimbus]

Originally Posted by matese

Sorry I didn't read the profile, I just read her entire profile, she has cerebellar hypoplasia, I would be looking for a healthy, sturdy dog, one that can take nice long walks.

If your aunt had a calm, submissive, docile yorkie she had a one of a kind yorkie lol, they do mellow out, calm down around 9 to 10 years old. My 4 girls slowed down at 10 years old, but were still mischievous, teasing little imps with a high prey drive. If your looking for calm, docile breeds I think you should stay away from the terrier breed.

Oh. lol Sorry.

Usually I look for healthy, sturdy, etc. but I wasn't sure if her disease was bad enough.

To be honest, I'm sort of a couch potato, but I do enjoy short walks, and occasional time outdoors(hiking, fishing, easy paced stuff).

I thought of a small breed because I was reading that walking them for a few short walks 2x daily(30min - 1 hour per walk) + playing with them indoors and backyard rigorously would be enough to satisfy them.

Sometimes I like going for 1 and half or 2-3 hours but it's not as common. It's why I wanted to avoid -other- terriers like the notorious jack russel...

I would enjoy a bulldog but they're neither foofy, and they're exercise level is way too low. I.e. their form of exercise is walking from the couch to the fridge from what I read(well not that literal but you get what I mean).


To be honest, I wanted a dog that would be close to me a lot, would enjoy short walks and some play. Though cuddling is fine. Non-slobbery (like not a basset hound- although they are beautiful they drool like crazy and it's a bit off putting). Something that's just happy go lucky and a bit mellow. That's how my aunts dog was. It was like that since it was a puppy, she got it from some breeder after much research.

Her dog much like my mothers dog followed her everywhere.

The only reason I didn't want to go for another cockapoo(what my mother has) is that after 3 days of bathing she reeks of this strange smell(I sadly have sensory issues).

I found out that it's probably the cocker spaniel in her, because cocker spaniels tend to produce more skin oils and that it can smell weird after some time.

That, and I've never had that issue with any other dog before-- even that wire haired fox terrier didn't smell weird.

But when you said I should go for something sturdy and healthy, I kind of agree because my brother has a daughter and she is rather young (about a year or two) and while they wont come into contact- I'd rather be careful in both cases. We only see them 2x a month though.


She had another yorkie before that apparently and the dog was like hers now. But it may have just taken cues from her. Heard that dogs sometimes take after(copy- behaviorally) their owners.


So would it be prudent to compare a yorkie with say a fox terrier or worse... a jack russel? I've seen my neighbors jack(he has 2) and they're rather obnoxious and hyper... Yipping, running around, "popcorning", etc without ceasing-- even after I go back inside for sometime. His dogs also bark at night, and sometimes howl.

This is rather heart breaking as yorkies are rather beautiful.