Differences between two similar Dx's?

[JennaPenny]

I really, for my own sanity, (and i wasn't going to make this post) Need to know how it's different with blood in the stool with regular gastroenteritis as opposed to HGE (hemorrhagic gastroenteritis?) She's been to the vet ,they know that before it was one time with two blood drops and now this evening one more time. She's been given antibiotics already, and sub-Q fluids. I'm just asking to know. I had no idea this was even a thing. I had no idea that if she's prone to bouts of gastroenteritis this is an actual concern. So... just for my own peace of mind I would really love to know how someone knows? Let's say it's the middle of the night, and she's thrown up, but vet said they will see her first thing; but it's HGE. I really appreciate any answers in advance, and I'm sorry to always be asking questions.

[Maximo]

Both gastroenteritis and HGE can be deadly, especially to a small dog, although HGE is usually the more serious.

Gastroenteritis is a medical term referring to inflammation of the gastrointestinal tract, usually the stomach and intestines. It can be caused by infection with bacteria, viruses, parasites, or reactions to medications or new foods. It often involves abdominal discomfort or pain, diarrhea and/or vomiting.

From PetMD:

We don’t know what causes HGE. Theories vary between a bacterial infection of the gastrointestinal tract (Clostridium perfringens has been blamed) to adverse reactions to food or parasites. For some reason, young, small breed dogs are at highest risk, as are individuals who can be described as high-strung or stressed.
We do know what happens during a case of HGE, however. Even though it is not inflamed, the lining of the intestinal tract becomes very leaky. Fluid, protein, and red blood cells seep out of vessels within the intestinal wall. The body responds with a process known as splenic contraction. The spleen serves as a reservoir for red blood cells. When the body senses that more may be quickly needed, the spleen releases its reserves into circulation.

Read more here: Hemorrhagic Gastroenteritis in Dogs - Bloody Diarrhea in Dogs | petMD

[JennaPenny]

Thank you, Maximo. I saw and old post and bookmarked that as well. I love your quote explaining it in detail phrasing in a way that people who don't work with animals can understand. She (the vet tech) did tell me that she has blood here and there, and why this time simply means that the little floras are much more inflamed this time. Chewie kept some food down (very little but some) has played, is not lethargic, and will go from room to room spending time with family. She is now just doing tiny amounts of diarrhea here and there. It's yellow right now, of course, as she hasn't eaten much. She's not feeling well very obviously, but she's moving around. She has never been forced by us to take medication, and today, we forced her. She's NOT happy and immediately had a few runny stools closer than they had been. We know that's from the st ress of taking the antibiotic. She's since reverted to only a few.

[airplane]

Wow. This really reminds me of my studies in University. It seems what you're asking about is a differential diagnosis. It's pretty tough for a layperson to tell you how to differentiate between two similar diagnoses. Even for students it seems they only know if they read it in a textbook. In terms of veterinary medicine, I can't comment. Knowing based solely on symptoms might not be possible and perhaps certain tests need to be done or something like that. But when I was a student I remember one particularly good discussion in class about differentiating between depression with psychotic features compared to a psychosis with a reactive depression. Same symptoms but two completely different diagnoses. Obviously that's not related to what you're asking about, but it's an example of a situation where there's overlap of symptoms of different diagnoses.

Anyways, I just wanted to say I wish the best for you and hope it's nothing overly serious. Your question I'm afraid probably can only be properly answered by someone well-versed with those diagnoses.

[airplane]

Also, next time you're at the vet clinic, you can ask the doctor to address the differential diagnosis. If the doctor can't rule anything in or out, he/she should be able to provide probability values to the different diagnoses.

[JennaPenny]

Originally Posted by airplane

Wow. This really reminds me of my studies in University. It seems what you're asking about is a differential diagnosis. It's pretty tough for a layperson to tell you how to differentiate between two similar diagnoses. Even for students it seems they only know if they read it in a textbook. In terms of veterinary medicine, I can't comment. Knowing based solely on symptoms might not be possible and perhaps certain tests need to be done or something like that. But when I was a student I remember one particularly good discussion in class about differentiating between depression with psychotic features compared to a psychosis with a reactive depression. Same symptoms but two completely different diagnoses. Obviously that's not related to what you're asking about, but it's an example of a situation where there's overlap of symptoms of different diagnoses.

Anyways, I just wanted to say I wish the best for you and hope it's nothing overly serious. Your question I'm afraid probably can only be properly answered by someone well-versed with those diagnoses.

I just need to know when an emergency is an emergency. It's not a good thing, but I'm not trusting of doctors fully. My son was allergic to vaccines- not this mercury craze, we are talking allergies, an was in the hospital for RSV for 4 months before his, well, life changing event. He had seizures, something that they do warn you about in the literature, and this arrogant piece of crap talked hubby into it when I was gone on vacation, and caught him up. I don't have to tell you what the results were. I wasn't NOT going to vaccinate him, I just simply wanted to do delayed vaccines. Then her (chewie's) first vet gave her a rabies vaccine and a booster in one day. She also was one time so backed up that she screamed for two days.. x-ray showed how backed up she was. The SECOND vet in her second practice- one that was filled with fantastic vets- was going to refuse an enema, but I Fully lost my temper. Later, when she had a nice BM, this little butthole didn't have nerve to come back in to report how well she did. He couldn't even own up to how much pain she was in. now I'm very, very, cautious. Her vet is a good vet, but she's not available Fridays and Saturdays.. and they weren't even going to have her in for fluids. i insisted. AND went to another vet to show I wasn't playing around. I just want her well. This bout is a nasty one. sorry for rambling, I'm trying to explain why i'm a helicopter parent to my kids, and chewie kinda falls under that.

[Maximo]

Adding to what Airplane wrote -- with gastorenteritis and HGE, there is not a test for either one to give a definitive diagnosis. The vet can do blood tests to rule out other illnesses that present similar symptoms, then make the diagnosis based on other factors.

[TxVicki]

With all the problems you have been having with Chewie, I think it may be time for you to find Internal Vet Specialist to get to the root of the problem. It is very possible she may need to have a scope done and a biopsy of her intestines to get an answer. If this was one of my dog's I would most certainly have this done.

[barneysmommmy]

When Willie was very sick..vet said HGE, and I think she was correct, he was lethargic. He did not recover until he received an IV. He started throwing up and diarrhea on a Sunday. Got sub fluids Sunday evening. Another trip to vet on Monday. More sub fluids. He was refusing food and water. Extremely lethargic. Received 24 hours of IV fluids and started recovering. When he returned to food, it was baby food chicken and rice per vets instructions for the first few days. Then, gradually, he went back to his original dog food.

He had big blobs of blood in his poop. We have no idea what caused his. Although I suspect it was because we had watched a football game the night before and I was very loud. I had also changed his dog food a few days before the episode. Fortunately, we've not had any other episodes.

[JennaPenny]

Originally Posted by TxVicki

With all the problems you have been having with Chewie, I think it may be time for you to find Internal Vet Specialist to get to the root of the problem. It is very possible she may need to have a scope done and a biopsy of her intestines to get an answer. If this was one of my dog's I would most certainly have this done.

Yes. Her first vet-he is very old school, and we are getting a little concerned at the continued wait and see approach. we had to be seen by him on Friday. Hubby always likes his blunt approach, and the way he just doesn't do kid gloves with patients or owners. He was the one that said pull the foods, add them in, and if it doesn't work within (writen down, not in front of me don't want to misquote) that rather than her taking a potentially long time to get to the bottom of this, he says it's in her best interest to do the biopsy. He said, I know that's scary, but it's in her best interest. I could try all I wanted and try all the stuff I know, but it's better in cases like this to see a specialist. Hubby is all for it. I'm scared, but, she's just miserable some mornings for a few hours, and she doesn't deserve this.