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07-11-2016, 06:24 PM | #1 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: USA
Posts: 4,285
| Interesting conundrum For those of you who show your pups of compete in trials you might find this interesting. Some of you may recall that when we did the 2016 YT calendar I was not able to submit the pics that had been taken of my dog because they were copyrighted by the photographer. I have come to learn this is rather common. So at a trial about 4 months ago I did not purchase any pictures, mostly because I probably could not use them even for cards anyway. Then 2 weeks ago a friend who was at the trial several months ago called me to tell me that my dogs picture had been put on coasters by the photographer and were being sold by said photographer. Now I have learned more. He can do that because he owns the pictures. He does not have to ask permission or share profits. This whole thing did not sound right so I talked with the attorney from whom I rent an office and he explanned that this is a sticky thing. He said the only thing I could try was to send a notice in with my premium application that i did not want pics taken of my dog, and then, understanding that the photographer is invited by who ever is putting on the event, would then have to serve the photographer with the same letter and see tomit that they signed it and keep a copy. Now that just sounds like too much ado for me. So a new trial is coming up the end of August. I had already sent in my paperwork. I then discovered that the photographer was the same one who sold pictures of my dog. So I called the event people and told them I would not be attending after all and why. They were totally stunned and said they had never had the issue or heard of it before. Now I learn that they could take a picture of me and my dog and publish it or use it for advertising or whatever they would like -- now I seriously doubt they would want a picture of me, cuz my dog is the cute one But this really means that when I enter a show I have very little privacy or control of my images since someone else has the copyright to all of those images. Just a heads up. And, am interested in your comments.
__________________ . Cali , and Cali's keeper and staff, Jay No, not a "mini" Yorkie - She loves to motor in her Mini Cooper car |
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07-12-2016, 05:02 AM | #2 |
♥ Maximo and Teddy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 25,041
| I would be really annoyed seeing my dogs' photos used on coasters sold by the photographer. It's one thing for the photographer to sell the photos from the event to a publication for news purposes, but quite another to put it on random products for sale. I wouldn't mind if the event coordinators/organizations used the photos to promote their work, but not the photographer. If you purchase copies of the photos, you should be able to use them for personal cards. Anything personal that doesn't involve a sale or exchange of money, or marketing. I would think the rights are similar to those for stock photography, although there are different sets of rules for each kind of purchase. For instance, I can buy a stock photograph to use on my business website, but I would not be allowed to have it printed on a tshirt to sell, or I would be limited as to the number of tshirts.
__________________ Kristin, Max and Teddy |
07-12-2016, 06:33 AM | #3 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: USA
Posts: 4,285
| My understanding is that when you purchase a pic from a professional photographer you cannot use it for anything other than to hang it in your house without written permission because they own the copyright of the picture. I am choosing to not participate in this practice. Not being able to use the pics taken at a show, that I purchased, for the YT calendar and now the coaster thing killed it for me. It will keep me from participating is many events if the photographer is not giving permission to use the photos I purchase or am in. That is just my personal stand! I was just sharing the issue for others to be knowledgable about the process.
__________________ . Cali , and Cali's keeper and staff, Jay No, not a "mini" Yorkie - She loves to motor in her Mini Cooper car |
07-12-2016, 07:44 AM | #4 |
Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Alabama
Posts: 17,674
| I understand your frustration. It is so wrong in so many ways. I guess it's like the "People of Walmart" who make the unwise choice to go out in public dressed in wonky ways. Some years ago, I purchased an "original" oil painting from a member here. I purchased it with a written agreement that I would have sole rights to the pic. Not long after I purchased the pic I saw the painting offered on products sold by Cafepress (YorkieTalk's logo store). I contacted Cafepress and was told that I would have to go through their legal department. I knew where that was going and since I couldn't afford a long legal battle, I backed out. The person who painted the pic is from another country and wasn't much help. Since then I have seen that same painting THAT I BOUGHT EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO posted all over the internet. Sometimes technology just sucks. Sometimes people just suck. I hope that your negative experience won't prevent you and Cali from future competitions. AND I would use the pics, especially from this photographer, in any way I pleased. |
07-12-2016, 08:10 AM | #5 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: USA
Posts: 4,285
| Oh I think these people would come after me. I wouldn't mind that so much. But I don't have the $$$ to put pursue it. Problem is the companies like the one who made our YT calendar can not use those pics without a release.
__________________ . Cali , and Cali's keeper and staff, Jay No, not a "mini" Yorkie - She loves to motor in her Mini Cooper car |
07-12-2016, 08:57 AM | #6 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Canada
Posts: 1,903
| What a pickle! I'm not a show competitor, but that sounds so annoying that the professional photographer is making money off printing your dogs' photos on products for sale! I'm just a little curious, do you sign something when you apply for the competitions? Maybe like a registration form? If so, in the fine print of the form is there anything anywhere saying you give consent for photos taken of you and/or your dog to be used by the photographer? Based on my little experience, in any situation/organization/volunteer event etc, where my photo may be taken (even if I'm visible in the background of a larger photo), I always have to sign a consent form, where my photo may be used for the organization. Assuming this photographer is hired to be part of the show event, I could see how they can argue that the photos can be used for promoting the show, if it's in writing in something like the registration form and you sign it. But otherwise, if there's no working in any form, then there's technically nothing in writing for legal purposes. I mean, doesn't that photographer just work for the show event, like a contracted for the event? They're taking photos for a third party event and then using it for their personal gains? Something really doesn't add up!
__________________ ~ laughter is an instant vacation ~ https://scottieandcasie.com/ :: Custom Pet Portrait Paintings |
07-12-2016, 10:57 AM | #7 |
YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 2,776
| I sooo agree with you, Canana; this does not add up at all! |
07-12-2016, 12:21 PM | #8 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Well most of the fine print is in the premium list. And many of us don't focus on the photographers section. I have been involved with some shows that highlight giving permission to use you and your dogs in photos particularly the televised ones. Most breeders want or use show win photos on their website and all show photographers know this!y I personally don't think this is fair practice, what you experienced
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
07-12-2016, 05:01 PM | #9 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: USA
Posts: 4,285
| There was only the show application so I did not knowingly give away my rights. It all started when I could not use the agility trial pics on the YT calendar At the trials I don't think the photographer was "hired" by the show chair, but was invited to take the pics and charge for them. Folks, of course, like to see good pics of their babies. I assume when I see pics of pups in magazines they have either gotten permission or paid to get the permission. I have written books and articles that were copywriter but I produced every word/idea. So that makes sense. But being told I can't even make Christmas cards from a professional photo of my dog does not make sense to me and if you take the photo to a professional printer they will not make them if the photographers name/logo is on the photo I don't know the answer but have developed a wide range of questions. Now deciding if I will go to the next trial or not. I hate to let someone else's decision decide what choice I will make.
__________________ . Cali , and Cali's keeper and staff, Jay No, not a "mini" Yorkie - She loves to motor in her Mini Cooper car |
07-13-2016, 10:54 PM | #10 |
www.yorkierescue.com Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Las Vegas & Orange County
Posts: 17,408
| If I was a professional photographer, I would be making money off my photography skills, not selling coasters. That just sounds weird to me. I've looked into those sites where you put in your pic and sell on many different items. You don't make any money! If a person goes and buys your coaster for $10, you get about $1.50. It just doesn't make sense. There's something funny about this photog.
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07-14-2016, 06:45 AM | #11 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: South Florida
Posts: 8,008
| I agree... something just doesn't add up. I would suggest going public with your concerns... on the photographers Facebook page, the sponsor of the event's page. Be clear about your concerns and why you don't want to participate. Bad publicity will be bad for both and you may get a response quickly. I have resolved may issues with companies when I was treated badly that way. Good luck
__________________ Shinja mom to Remy lil Sis to Bailey and Sammy |
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