Advice Needed - Small Liver on Xrays

[tonyag9]

Hello everyone,

I havent been here in ages, but am in need of some help. My sweet little yorkie/chi mix, Pixel, is now 7 and Iam extremely concerned about him. For a few weeks he has not been himself (lip smacking, vomited a couple of times, weak, acting like something is in his throat, found a small lump to the left on his neck, threw up a hair ball, off and on lethargy, staying in his own bed at night, when he would normally be on the couch with me, appetite is up and down, and I think that's everything). Poop/pee seem normal. I have taken him to his regular vet (2 weeks ago) and to an emergency vet on Thursday. A total of $700 later and Iam still very concerned with no peace of mind. He had blood tests (CBC/Chem 17/electrolytes) and an xray. The regular vet said gastritis and gave him Cerenia and then 2 weeks later, the emergency vet said it was a gum infection and gave him Cerenia, pain meds, and an antibiotic. All blood test levels were in normal range, so Ifelt better it was just his gums and planned on a teeth cleaning asap. However, I am worrying again, because Iam just not convinced that is what's wrong and the emergency vet did say his liver looked a little small, but did not do a Bile Acide Test, since all blood test levels were in normal range. I'm now concerned of a possible shunt, since he is part Yorkie. Could that be possible, even with clear blood tests?? All of thw signs above are sporadic, but I am so worried about my best friend. I am headed to the pet store to see if switching his food helps anything (hes always eaten solid gold wee bit). I need advice on what kind to help his liver, if that is anbissue. Also going to get milk thistle. Please forgive typis, on cell phone. THANKS FOR ANY HELP! I AM A WORRIED SICK MAMA RIGHT NOW

[SharonSnowbird]

I am so sorry to hear of your sick Pixel, I know how concerned and scared you must be right now. I am sure some of the wonderful members on this list will be able to give you some good advice. I will keep checking in, my prayers are with you.

[Yorkiemom1]

Bless your heart....I can only imagine how distressed you are. I am so very fortunate as I have never had to deal with liver issues on any of my dogs....so all I could offer is "book regurgitation" of information...I am wanting others that have dealt with this issue to jump on this for you!!

I want to say I was going to advise the milk thistle....I give all my dogs milk thistle prophylactically, just to help "clean" their systems/livers from any assault their livers may encounter, from everyday exposure to "God- only- knows- what" in the air, grass, .....even dog food....I want to be certain I am providing anything I can to support immune systems and liver function....I order mine from "NHVnaturalpetproducts.com (1-877-937-4372)....I like how it is formulated and what it does NOT contain....it is not the same thing as what humans take so dont use the one you get at a human health food store....different carrier formulation.

Next, while all your results are still within normal limits, I would STRONGLY advise getting pet insurance and also, apply for ....what is it called??...CareCredit???....that will give you financial availability if you are faced with high vet bills. There are other people on here that can give more information to you on this option....as a breeder, I can not have health insurance on my dogs, so I cant recommend one over the other there......I went thru CareCredit and got a loan to cover MY dental work, so I know you can get financial help from them for a variety of things......

I think I would also go with specialists....I swear by vet schools....A&M is of course my school of choice because they are right down the road thankfully, and they are on the cutting edge of treatment and technology in the care of animals......you have a great vet school in Fl.....depending on how "deep into the weeds" you are able to get with the financial commitment involved......I am certain you will do whatever you possibly can do to help your baby.....please keep us updated on developments and progress with your baby.

[tonyag9]

Thanks so much to you both! In car so short reply at red light lol I am single with no kids, so he really is my EVERYTHING! Of course right now being on a car ride, he is excited and acting fine!! Is small liver always a problem? Since vet barely even mentioned it???

[Yorkiemom1]

An undersized liver is not always a problem, depending on HOW MUCH smaller it is, of course! As long as the size is the only factor and not transpositioning of vessels.....

[tonyag9]

Thanks yorkiemom! That makes me feel a little better and with the emergency vet not seeming to have much concern, maybe I am just being paranoid and it really is just his teeth/gums. Day 2 of antibiotics and I sure hope that helps!!! Though it doesnt make sense to me why teeth issues would upset his stomach. Does it make sense to you guys?? Meanwhile, I just got home from driving all over town and never found canine milk thistle. I see a ton of options on Amazon. Does it matter which one I get?? Thanks again for all the help!!

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by tonyag9

Thanks yorkiemom! That makes me feel a little better and with the emergency vet not seeming to have much concern, maybe I am just being paranoid and it really is just his teeth/gums. Day 2 of antibiotics and I sure hope that helps!!! Though it doesnt make sense to me why teeth issues would upset his stomach. Does it make sense to you guys?? Meanwhile, I just got home from driving all over town and never found canine milk thistle. I see a ton of options on Amazon. Does it matter which one I get?? Thanks again for all the help!!

I sent you information on the milk thistle I have used for years on my crew, in my first post above!.......

[buddybear]

Yes teeth issues can upset a persons stomach so it makes sense to me that it would also in a doggie.
Yorkie mom1 has lots of experience so I would go with her suggestion about the canine milk thistle.
Wishing you well and your baby too.

[tonyag9]

Thank you buddybear! I feel more at ease So sorry Yorkiemom1! I was driving and totally missed that! Will order now. He doesnt do well with liquid medicine. Can i put it on his food? Also, he's only 7 pounds. Is there dosage to support that small size?? Thanks again everyone! This place is still amazing!

[Yorkiemom1]

It is just a drop or two or three, according to his weight, and I just drop it into their food, and it is such a small amount, there is no problem....you could put a small dollop of whatever your baby finds most enjoyable, over it...a little drizzle of karo, maple syrup, honey (unrefined), yogurt, whatever you know is most appealing to your baby.....and the ones that absolutely refuse to ingest the 2-3 drops of medicine, I just squirt it into their mouth!!

[ladyjane]

I highly recommend doing the bile acid testing. It is a relatively inexpensive test and not stressful to the pup at all.

Here is a link to my Teddy Bear's story. Teddy was diagnosed with a liver shunt in 2013. I had adopted him in 2007 and during those years he had 8 full blood studies done with no abnormalities at all! It means nothing ... some vets are really not aware of that...any specialist will tell you it happens quite a bit. It is all dependent upon how much blood is going through the liver and being filtered.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...ver-shunt.html

The only symptoms Teddy ever exhibited were GI and I missed it....it was not that often and not until it got worse and then he had
the bladder stones. Poor baby.

[chickensmith]

Our husky was diagnosed with an "abnormally small liver" when she was 3. She has never had any issues related to it....but I agree that it more than likely depends on the size of the dog and the abnormality in size of the liver. I hope you are able to see a specialist and get some relief for your baby!
On a side note.....is milk thistle good for humans to cleanse the liver?

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by chickensmith

Our husky was diagnosed with an "abnormally small liver" when she was 3. She has never had any issues related to it....but I agree that it more than likely depends on the size of the dog and the abnormality in size of the liver. I hope you are able to see a specialist and get some relief for your baby!
On a side note.....is milk thistle good for humans to cleanse the liver?

Absolutely! THAT is how I was first introduced to the concept of aiding in repairing/maintaining failing livers in drug addicts/alcoholics.....my cousin....I dearly loved that precious soul....was so mixed up in drugs and drinking...he was caught so many times running dope from Mexico as well as growing pot in his mothers back yard, the last time he was caight, the judge told him he could join the Army or go to jail for 4-6 years. He elected the Army....what do you think happened???? The sent him to boot camp then shipped him off to GERMANY!!!! GERMANY, the drug capital of the world!!!! Well, he thought he had died and gone to heaven!!! He met his future wife in the service there in Germany....her name was "Flash" so you KNOW what kind of a comedy these two lived.....jump forward 35 years...they were back in the USA....she called me and told me he had been diagnosed with end stage liver disease and the docs gave him MAYBE 6-8 months possibly a year, to live. I was absolutely inconsolable and turned over every stone I could find, researching what he had and what we could do about it....one of my docs told me about milk thistle that was used in Germany on all the drug addicts and it extended their lives for years! I researched it, contacted my cousin, sent his wife all the articles I found on it....didnt want him to know I knew about his grave condition....she presented it to him like SHE had stumbled on all that information.....he started taking milk thistle and he lived an additional 5 years! His docs at the VA were stunned and amazed and I THINK they wrote a paper on him.....

Then my dearest friend had 5 little Yorkies that all started suffering from liver failure caused by that very first recall on tainted chicken strips from China way back in 2000. She was doing everything she could possibly do to save/prolong the life of her precious little babies...from lactolose enemas and a barrage of other medicines, some established for treatment of liver failure, some experimental....then we put her babies on milk thistle for dogs...got it out of Canada....it prolonged those babies lives for additional months-to-a year or so....she eventually lost those babies, but that stuff works wonders! I started giving it to all my dogs prophylactically and have done so since 2000. I highly recommend it....for humans as well as our dogs!!! (Remember, the two formulas are in a different base carrier....dont give the human milk thistle to dogs, and visa versa.)

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by chickensmith

Our husky was diagnosed with an "abnormally small liver" when she was 3. She has never had any issues related to it....but I agree that it more than likely depends on the size of the dog and the abnormality in size of the liver. I hope you are able to see a specialist and get some relief for your baby!
On a side note.....is milk thistle good for humans to cleanse the liver?

Here is information I had on my computer when I was dealing with my cousin and his liver failure....I collected TONS of information from all over....I can not remember where this particular article came from.....but I had at least 15-20 of them, many from medical research books, various articles, etc....

"As an herbal remedy, milk thistle in the form of standardized extracts made from the seeds of the plant, is used for liver cleansing, protective and therapeutic purposes. Milk thistle tea is also used for the same purposes. Milk thistle is widely used throughout Europe for liver ailments including hepatitis A, alcoholic cirrhosis, and exposure to hazardous chemicals. It is also employed as an effective antidote to the otherwise fatally poisonous "death cap" mushroom, Amanita phalloides. Remarkably, milk thistle helps to repair damage to the liver, and to regenerate liver tissue. For this reason, it is a highly beneficial health aid.
Medicinal History

Milk thistle has been employed as a medicine for at least 2,000 years, primarily for ailments of the liver. The 4th Century BC herbalist Theophrastus, and the 1st Century AD physician Pliny, both mentioned milk thistle. The first significant writings on milk thistle were by 1st century AD Greek physician Dioscorides, who employed the roots to induce vomiting, and boiled the leaves to treat snake bites.

The famous 19th Century herbalist Nicholas Culpepper employed milk thistle for diseases of the liver and bile. In the 19th and 20th century, Eclectic physicians in the United States prescribed milk thistle for disorders of the liver, kidneys and spleen, and for varicose veins and pelvic congestion. Use of milk thistle seed for the treatment of liver ailments was promoted by 19th century German physician Rademacher.

Since the late 1930's German herbal researchers have led scientific investigation into the properties and health benefits of milk thistle. Today in Europe, milk thistle is widely recognized and employed as a protective and restorative agent for liver damage due to hepatitis, cirrhosis, alcohol, drugs, and environmental toxins. In France, Germany, Hungary and Greece, various preparations of milk thistle are employed for a wide variety of health complaints related to liver function. These uses are becoming increasingly popular in the United States due to keen interest in natural remedies.

Silymarin in milk thistle has been shown to inhibit damage from toxic substances including alcohol, drugs and other chemicals. Silymarin stabilizes cell membranes in the liver, thus minimizing or inhibiting cell damage due to insult from harmful agents. Silymarin not only shows protective power, but demonstrates specific activity in regenerating liver cells as well. Some of silymarin's protective activity is as an antioxidant. In this role, silymarin neutralizes harmful substances called free radicals that can damage cells. Specifically, silymarin protects oxidative damage to the lipid membrane that surrounds liver cells.

As recommended by Germany's Commission E, for liver protective and supportive treatment purposes, take 200 - 400 mg of silymarin in doses of 100 - 200 mg of silymarin, 2 times daily, morning and evening, with sufficient fluids.

Product Choosing/Buying Tips

Look for standardized extracts of milk thistle containing between 100-200-mg silymarin per capsule/tablet. Standardized products will clearly state their silymarin values. I favor the product Thistlyn by Nature's Way, which has been the subject of several human clinical studies. For herbal tea, I'd suggest Alvita brand Milk Thistle, found in most natural food stores. Drink a couple of cups daily to rid your liver of unwanted gunk.

Science Update

A review of 36 silymarin studies found that silymarin from milk thistle demonstrates cell protective activity in the liver, and reduces risk of mortality in cases of cirrhosis. The review further suggested that silymarin may be specifically beneficial in cases of alcohol-related cirrhosis."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It certainly prolonged my cousin's life from projected less than a year, to 5 years......

[azkaty]

Best thing thing you can give a pup for liver support over the counter is Denamarin. I have used this for years and watched the liver enzymes drop drop dramatically . 198 to 34 . Google on the many places it is available. Denamarin uses two ingredients- milk thistle is one of them- that work together .

Distilled water can be a help to reduce build ups of copper in the water which can be a cause of liver issues .

Have used Denamarin at my holistic vet and breeders recommendation and the results are impressive .

I currently have our Toller on it because of a liver issue . He is doing very well now.

Best of luck to you and I hope you find out the problem. BTW milk thistle works well for humans . I take it every day because I am on several medicines which cause elevated ALT and AST . Again, my numbers are now within range too.