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09-09-2015, 11:47 AM | #1 |
YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 2,776
| Piper's Super Power--arrgghh I've held off on asking what to do because I'm not sure I can accurately impart my dilemma (I apologize for length of post)...From day one, Piper will not follow simple 'commands.' While holding a bit of chicken (favorite), I asked her to sit; she lowered her adorable little head and start to slink away...Well, right or wrong, I immediately told her it was ok and called her back. As I said, Piper won't listen to anything she doesn't want to do and nothing, I mean, NOTHING motivates her to change her mind. It's danged obvious she's a smart little cookie and picks up on things that work for her very quickly, but I've no idea how to get her to listen to me, i.e. coming when called, sit, stay...I'm at a loss, for sure. I raised and trained two German Shepherds and understand and subscribe to calm, consistent training, but I had their attention and they had the desire to please. And, as I said, if Piper thinks she is being told to "do" something (sit, stay), the result is the head drop, turn away, headed for under couch. Lately she's taking her sweet time about coming when called in the house and that, I will say, is causing me some frustration; I have to take a deep breath and change my tone and still I wait. Whenever Piper comes, every time she comes, I excitedly praise her. I'd have no problem with being firmer with Piper--if it got results, but as I said, so far no matter what tact I take, if she decides "oh no I will not" nothing, but nothing has had any affect on 'motivating' her...Piper transcends stubborn; I mean she's rather amazing in her commitment to it--she can't hear ya, won't look at you--ya get nothing!! Now believe me, if Piper stays exactly as she is this minute--headstrong, willful, independent, determined--I think she's just about the most perfectly precious adorable gift God has ever bestowed on me. She balances her 'rude' behavior by mostly being adorable, loving, sensitive, sweet, shadowing, and totally trusting. I guess because she ignores me at will, I wonder sometimes...Does she love me? Is she happy here? Does she care that it's me taking her for a walk or would anybody do...? Any thoughts as to Piper's behavior and/or mine? Constructive criticism is welcome. |
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09-09-2015, 11:54 AM | #2 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Texas
Posts: 534
| We had a stubborn pekineses. All 11 pounds of her would look us straight in the eye and you could read her thoughts: Us: Ginger, sit. Ginger: I want to see you make me sit!!!! Us: Ginger, sit. Ginger: I just don't believe you can make ME sit. Us: *push her bottom down gently* Ginger: How DARE you make me sit!!! AND, where is my treat!!!!!!!!! She obeyed when SHE was in the mood, not on command LOL.
__________________ Mario was adopted May 2015. Now he is a service dog and brother to Bailey the Airdale mix |
09-09-2015, 12:16 PM | #3 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: E.Stroudsburg, Pa.
Posts: 67,929
| lol,lil Piper is just too cute. I know for me it would be frustrating if I am late leaving for an appointment and Cody wouldn't come to make that pee pee before I left. I hope some of our knowledgeable trainers can offer up advise for you. Good luck.
__________________ Joan, mom to Cody RIP Matese Schnae Kajon Kia forever in my A House Is Not A Home Without A Dog |
09-09-2015, 12:33 PM | #4 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Texas
Posts: 534
| On a more serious note, do you know her history? How old is she? What methods have you already tried? When we got Mario, it was evident he was abused by his previous owners. I spent two weeks only going over the in the door, out the door training, and everything else we did was simply to build trust and for him to have fun. Once he trusted me, his training became fast and fun. However, Mario is a major people pleaser. Try this site and see if anything works or if you have tried it all already. It is free and offers some troubleshooting tips as well: Introduction | Mind to Mind
__________________ Mario was adopted May 2015. Now he is a service dog and brother to Bailey the Airdale mix |
09-09-2015, 01:48 PM | #5 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Texas
Posts: 534
| Also, how long have you had her?
__________________ Mario was adopted May 2015. Now he is a service dog and brother to Bailey the Airdale mix |
09-09-2015, 02:33 PM | #6 |
YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 2,776
| I do not know Piper's history; she was 3 yrs when I got her about a year ago. When Piper comes to me (in the house), she approaches with her little noggin down. And although it's taken time, Piper can now look me in the eye when she sits on my lap--at first she could/would not. She was in good health and looked fine when I got her, however, it would appear she'd had pups recently and I'm wondering if maybe she was raised more in a kennel than a home. Housebreaking has been nigh-on-to impossible (though we're getting there) and it's taken many months for her to "get" toys--still not keen on them. Walks are her thing. |
09-09-2015, 02:36 PM | #7 |
Donating 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Jacksonville, FL USA
Posts: 881
| Great picture of Piper!!
__________________ Russ, Denise, Bella and Bailey . |
09-09-2015, 02:37 PM | #8 |
YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 2,776
| Also, Mayzoo, love, love, love your conversation with Ginger. Made me laugh out loud and made me feel a lot better!!! Thank you so very much! |
09-09-2015, 04:12 PM | #9 | |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Texas
Posts: 534
| Quote:
Glad it helped. She was a real pill to deal with; sometimes very very compliant, other times looked at me like I had three heads and was speaking a brand new language she had never heard, other times just like the conversation above....stubborn. Those are the dogs you never, ever show off to other people their newly learned trick....it will backfire almost every time LOL. I have trained dogs my whole life, but stubborn dogs or dogs not motivated to please fall into a whole new category much more like training a cat. As far her being from a breeder, have you checked out the thread on helping them heal from that experience: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...nt-advice.html Sounds a lot like she still has some healing and trust issues that need to be resolved before most of her training can begin. I would stick strictly to what training you MUST do, such as house training/pee pad training, stay out of trash etc.. until she has healed and trusts you more. For now, I would limit training to the bare minimum revolving around her health/safety and your sanity. Otherwise, you are just frustrating yourself and both setting her up to fail and instilling in her mind she can walk off and hide when ask her to do something. Instead, lots of gentle lap petting sessions, and feeding her treats or kibble by hand if you can. Making your time together relaxing, and fun will go a long towards her relaxing and learning to trust you more and be afraid of you less.
__________________ Mario was adopted May 2015. Now he is a service dog and brother to Bailey the Airdale mix Last edited by Mayzoo; 09-09-2015 at 04:16 PM. | |
09-09-2015, 07:16 PM | #10 |
YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 2,776
| Yeah, yeah, yeah! That's exactly what I've been doing with Piper; no pressure, no demands (other than when in the house, coming when I've called her--and even then, however many times and ways I need to say her name until she eventually shows up!). Also, I don't pick her up unless she asks me to do so; most of the time, after popping onto my lap for belly rubs, Piper snuggles next to me on couch and after burying her bones (little treats) in the sheets and under pillows, she stretches out on the bed like she's some kinda long and lean greyhound! Thank you for taking the time to provide wonderful and kind direction. I shall (continue) to do as you suggest and look forward to reading the articles. I so love Yorkie people--the finest, funniest, most empathetic, loving people ever! |
09-10-2015, 03:22 AM | #11 | |
Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator | Quote:
I wish I had suggestions...but maybe think about attending an obedience class together...? That can be very helpful in learning to communicate, and some trainers are just amazing.
__________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann | Pfeiffer | Marcel Verdel Purcell | Wylie | Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° | |
09-10-2015, 04:23 AM | #12 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: E.Stroudsburg, Pa.
Posts: 67,929
| Head held down when you call her is a sign of fear, if she was used for breeding only she does not know the way to live with ppl, nor would she have been taught any commands, if she was confined in a kennel for breeding only she had no human contact. This girl has to be handled gently just as you are doing. Keep in mind for 3 years she lived a life you know nothing about, it will take time, much time to break a 3 year routine she lived. As I see it the way you are handling her is great, make no demands on her, head held down still shows fear, she still needs time to TRUST you, who knows, maybe she was smacked around where ever she came from. Does she know sit, down, stay simple basic commands? Maybe in the past when she was called she was smacked, hit, beat, that could be a reason she holds her head down, fear. With rescues it's trial and error, if one thing fails try another method. You have her a year, you have seen some changes in her, everything must be done in baby steps. Her gaining 100% trust in you is a must, and it's NOT YOU, it's PPL in general, trusting ppl. Poor sweet little Piper. Think of the fear she has in humans, 3 years does not get erased in a years time. Piper has found the perfect momma, some ppl would not be so willing to work with a baby like Piper, they have no patience, no understanding of what her life could have been like. From what I have read from you on Piper's behavior, I would not use a firm voice with her when you call her and she doesn't , gentle, soft voice with of course treat and praise which I see you have been doing. Taking her for car rides when you can, and walks help build a bond and trust.
__________________ Joan, mom to Cody RIP Matese Schnae Kajon Kia forever in my A House Is Not A Home Without A Dog |
09-10-2015, 06:37 AM | #13 |
YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 2,776
| Thank you, Ann and Matese! When not working, Piper pretty much goes everywhere with me; she loves 'going for a ride' in the car and on all shopping expeditions, though we're limited to Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and such. All the suggestions and support have already made a big difference in that I feel "safe" in how I'm handling Piper....Oh, heck, who am kidding?! I think my little girl read me like a cheap novel from day one and I'm the one who is being trained and handled! Who knew there was so much joy, mystery, silliness, and psychology contained in one little bit of a canine unit?! Everyday I love Piper more... |
09-10-2015, 08:42 AM | #14 |
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker | great response, thank you
__________________ Kathleen and Jaz piddleplace Think Outside the (litter) Box Piddle Place supports shelters, service dogs and humane causes. |
09-10-2015, 02:34 PM | #15 | |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: E.Stroudsburg, Pa.
Posts: 67,929
| Quote:
__________________ Joan, mom to Cody RIP Matese Schnae Kajon Kia forever in my A House Is Not A Home Without A Dog | |
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