Hello, My name is Kim Balas

[ladyjane]

I know a couple of breeders who left because of the bad breeding that has been posted over and over again. It bothered them so much that they stay away. Many of them also simply spend more time on FB as do many other people.

We cannot assume why certain people are here or not here.

[Lilah Charm]

Hey there, I have been actively following these two threads about mistibleu yorkies. My initial interest was piqued by the fact that the Op had inconsistent statements early on and that the dog had broken it's leg in her care but that the blame was going to the breeder- this was very interesting to me, particularly how the yt community was responding.

I saw linked threads (I read everything that was linked) that had very good reveiws and one bad one and I heard people saying, "didnt you see those other bad review threads they linked?!" And it confused me- because I actually read them and that isn't what I got from them. I also was surprised that no one seemed to notice the inconsistent reports of the op- I don't think it was intentional. She seems to care very much about her dog and my guess if I had one would be that she didn't understand the fragile nature of a twelve week old Yorkie puppy and didn't understand that fecofaeggea (did I spell that right? Eating ones own feces) is a common issue tht many dog owners have to deal with and so on and so forth and developed some (perhaps unsubstantiated) concepts/perceptions about the experience she had getting her puppy, especially d there was a misunderstanding of contract. Again, I'm just some third party lady reading a story on the internet- what do I know either way?

But then looking at her website too, she upheld every criteria I would expect to find on a website- and yes, it's just a website, a glimmer of an image of a concept on some vast world called the internet displayed neatly for the judgment of millions on a telephone screen display. But there she was explaining the Yorkshire terrier standard and striving to uphold it, actively competing in shows and participating in health screenings and I didn't understand where some of the statements were coming from about her expressed breeding practices. So again , I was perplexed.

Susan, I am the one who used the term socially acceptable in regard to spay/neuter practices and I should've put quotations around it to make sure it was clear that I was implying a general perception of society as I beleive it to be. I mentioned in tha statement that I err to the side of later spay/neuter myself and I noticed that you mentioned you are a proponent of early spay/neuter. I think there are many valuable benefits and notable concerns on each side of the issue and that what might be appropriate in one situation is totally not in another. I do not hold an engraved subscription to one school of thought on this subject and value healthy conversation in regard to it. By using the term socially acceptable, I meant to imply what is (I beleive) socially commonplace and would have described my intended communication more accurately if I had employed the use of quotations.

Because I didn't understand where the 'bad breeder' allegations were coming from- beside the op and the one time LCP poster and because I aknowledge that misunderstandings and dissapointing outcomes can come from even the best planned breedings, I asked Taylor to help me see what I was missing and I do appreciate that she very kindly shared with me what she was searching and where she was getting the information she was sharing. I know that her challenges with the issues her lady Callie had/has from poor breeding practices have really created a sensitive place in her heart for the subject of poor breeding practices and I fully acknowledge that this issue is very touchy for all the people involved. I also see Gail here, a dedicated hard working show breeder who for the record does work with more than one breed and is actively involved in many issues within the dog world. I can only imagine how heartbroken she would be If a pup she sent home broke it's leg the first day and then was told it was her fault or if she were determined to be a 'bad breeder' for having some involvement in more than one breed, ouch right? Her care and effort is evidenced in every training video posted, in her tireless advocacy and involvement in appropriate breed management legislation etc discussed openly here on this forum and I would not be in the least surprised if many people signed up for a website to defend her integrity if someone spoke poorly of her.

Anyhow, this post is getting rather long so I will wrap it up. It is very important to me to keep interactions within the community positive because I don't feel that healthy thoughtful communication can occur without that. I do appreciate all perspectives here, Karyn's, Kim's, Taylor's, Gails, Susan's and all others who have chosento weigh in to this conversation because I think it is appropriate to do the best we can to make competent decisions to support or not support practices that influence the breed that we cooperatively care about. I appreciate every effort to share information and to communicate especially in the face of tense conversation. I generally don't think that small breed pups should be rehomed before twelve weeks and I don't disrespect a breeder for being involved in the care and managment of another breed- especially one that they are actively involved in showing as that requires extreme dedication and investment. But I think that's about the end of my two cents. As I said on the other thread- I Hope it all works out well for everybody.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Again I'm going by the facts I found which is 8 week old poms being sold by her which is a fact! All small breed dogs should stay with there moms until 12 weeks so yes even one thing like that says bad breeder to me. Then you ad in the probabels and there you go I am sold on my opinion of bad breeder. You can have your opinion but I get to have mine too whether you agree or not. I think you do know this breeder or something is hitting hard with it.

Once more I don't know this breeder from Adam. You can either take me at my word or not. But I don't like the inference that I am lying (as evidenced by the statement yet again that *I think you do know this breeder*. THat is an attack on my character - I have told you I don't know this breeder from Adam. And I do NOT lie about this.


I never said or alluded to you that you can't have an opinion - every-one has one. I can have mine too, and present a different viewpoint. Whether you agree or not.....

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by gemy

Once more I don't know this breeder from Adam. You can either take me at my word or not. But I don't like the inference that I am lying (as evidenced by the statement yet again that *I think you do know this breeder*. THat is an attack on my character - I have told you I don't know this breeder from Adam. And I do NOT lie about this.


I never said or alluded to you that you can't have an opinion - every-one has one. I can have mine too, and present a different viewpoint. Whether you agree or not.....

I can not figure out why out of all the breeder reviews this is one you decided to get really sensitive about. I did not call you a liar or attack your character so please chill out. My whole life I have been lied to by people so I'm not one who just always believes what someone says, in this world you can't. I'm sorry you took that as a personal attack it just seems odd to me.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I can not figure out why out of all the breeder reviews this is one you decided to get really sensitive about. I did not call you a liar or attack your character so please chill out. My whole life I have been lied to by people so I'm not one who just always believes what someone says, in this world you can't. I'm sorry you took that as a personal attack it just seems odd to me.

Yes you did as quite clearly explained in my previous post. And it was personal Taylor and it was clearly directed to me.


You kept on commenting that I *knew* this breeder even after I clearly told you I did not.


And now I am done.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by gemy

Yes you did as quite clearly explained in my previous post. And it was personal Taylor and it was clearly directed to me.


You kept on commenting that I *knew* this breeder even after I clearly told you I did not.


And now I am done.

That is your opinion....... If I wanted to call you a liar or attack your character I would have done so. So you are telling me in this world if some comes up to you and tells you something you are just going to straight up believe them no if ands or butts about it? You also can't tell me that it wouldn't seem strange for someone to start posting on a breeder review arguing for the breeder when they don't know the breeder or normally do that? I even apologized for crying out loud!

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I can not figure out why out of all the breeder reviews this is one you decided to get really sensitive about. I did not call you a liar or attack your character so please chill out. My whole life I have been lied to by people so I'm not one who just always believes what someone says, in this world you can't. I'm sorry you took that as a personal attack it just seems odd to me.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

That is your opinion....... If I wanted to call you a liar or attack your character I would have done so. So you are telling me in this world if some comes up to you and tells you something you are just going to straight up believe them no if ands or butts about it? You also can't tell me that it wouldn't seem strange for someone to start posting on a breeder review arguing for the breeder when they don't know the breeder or normally do that? I even apologized for crying out loud!

This thread has bothered me after the first post. I feel very badly that the owner and the puppy who broke its leg after the first day had to go through that. I wish things could be worked out amicably between the two of them by having an honest exchange between the two.

What I have seen on this thread is a lack of respect. We don't know any of the facts, and it always bothers me that without any apparent proofs, breeders are being regarded as disreputable based upon the opinions of some. I agree with Brit that breeders are not highly regarded by many on this site. I am fully aware that there are many disreputable breeders, but to paint a broad stroke against all breeders is strictly unfair.

I'm sorry Taylor that you got Callie from a broker and that she has had so many problems. I appreciate that you advocate for pups, but there are people with feelings who are hurt when your opinions are being posed as fact. It doesn't matter if you say "in my opinion". You gather together information that you dislike on a website and use that to say they are disreputable. Without truly knowing someone or their breeding program, you tout your opinions as fact. I know you're not the only one to call breeders disreputable, but you don't seem to let go and it's all so black and white to you.

Your apology to Gemy was not an apology at all. If someone has earned my respect, yes I do believe them at their word. Actually, I believe someone until I find they are being untruthful. A true apology would be to say, "I'm sorry I implied that" ot something like that. Instead you implied that she was in the wrong, and yet again, you drove your point home. You were disrespectful to her and also the breeder (on more than one occasion), firstly calling her "dear." That does not soften the attack and is very sarcastic.

I know you wouldn't want to hurt anyone, but constantly calling people disreputable without knowing for sure that they are, really is hurtful. I don't want to hurt you either, but this thread has upset me from the beginning. My opinion isn't more valid than anyone else's, but perhaps if I'm feeling this way, there may be others who are also feeling such a lack of respect here. There may be many reasons why people leave Yorkietalk, and although this is only just one reason, I wish people could be kinder and treat others with more respect.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by lisaly

This thread has bothered me after the first post. I feel very badly that the owner and the puppy who broke its leg after the first day had to go through that. I wish things could be worked out amicably between the two of them by having an honest exchange between the two.

What I have seen on this thread is a lack of respect. We don't know any of the facts, and it always bothers me that without any apparent proofs, breeders are being regarded as disreputable based upon the opinions of some. I agree with Brit that breeders are not highly regarded by many on this site. I am fully aware that there are many disreputable breeders, but to paint a broad stroke against all breeders is strictly unfair.

I'm sorry Taylor that you got Callie from a broker and that she has had so many problems. I appreciate that you advocate for pups, but there are people with feelings who are hurt when your opinions are being posed as fact. It doesn't matter if you say "in my opinion". You gather together information that you dislike on a website and use that to say they are disreputable. Without truly knowing someone or their breeding program, you tout your opinions as fact. I know you're not the only one to call breeders disreputable, but you don't seem to let go and it's all so black and white to you.

Your apology to Gemy was not an apology at all. If someone has earned my respect, yes I do believe them at their word. Actually, I believe someone until I find they are being untruthful. A true apology would be to say, "I'm sorry I implied that" ot something like that. Instead you implied that she was in the wrong, and yet again, you drove your point home. You were disrespectful to her and also the breeder (on more than one occasion), firstly calling her "dear." That does not soften the attack and is very sarcastic.

I know you wouldn't want to hurt anyone, but constantly calling people disreputable without knowing for sure that they are, really is hurtful. I don't want to hurt you either, but this thread has upset me from the beginning. My opinion isn't more valid than anyone else's, but perhaps if I'm feeling this way, there may be others who are also feeling such a lack of respect here. There may be many reasons why people leave Yorkietalk, and although this is only just one reason, I wish people could be kinder and treat others with more respect.

I never say my opinion is a fact but there were a few facts about this breeder. Her ads selling a different breed puppy were facts they where there for everyone to see and it's a fact the pups were being sold at 8 weeks and it's there for everyone to see. A non reputable in my opinion from talking to reputable breeders, people who know this breed and study's on puppies as well as all the articles I have read say a small breed puppy should stay with there mom until 12 weeks. Almost all of the posters who have been here and even Ann the moderator has been seen saying pups should stay with there moms until 12 weeks. In my opinion if you do one thing wrong as a breeder you probably do something else wrong as well. I'm not going to respect someone I feel does things wrong like what I think is a bad breeder. You can not say my words are sarcastic because you can not hear them it is simply your interpretation. It has been said here many times a poster does not make another poster leave they choose to do it. Something my therapist repeats to me often surprisingly when we are talking about YorkieTalk no one can make anyone do anything. So it wasn't rude or nasty for Gemy to take a hit at me being a bad pet owner when I sure as heck have done more for my dog and gone into debt for my dog more then most would do. She knows that because of how much I love my Callie just how big and bad that would hit. In the real world people lie threw there teeth and my naive believe everyone has gotten me into massive trouble before so I have learned you can't take everyone for what they say especially when one we are on a message board and when I have multiple people telling me they think the same thing. It was not meant to be an attack on Gemy you can choose to believe me or not but it wasn't and I apologized that she felt it was because I am sorry that she thought I was doing that. It gets tiring when people take every single word you have to say and find a deferent meaning then what you really meant. The breeder could still come back and explain and if I feel I'm wrong I would apologize, I have done it before but I'm guessing there is no explain action that it is what it is. I have been told to always remember to write in my opinion yet that is still not good enough. So what is it you people want? Me to not be me? Me to lie? Me to only post positive stuff with rainbows and sunshine even though nothing is like that? Maybe that is why people decided to leave........

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by gemy

Wowee and you can tell without a shadow of a doubt based on a web presence if some-one is reputable or not? Makes me so not want to put up a website, for others to base their decisions on!


So you don't care whether or not what the OP posts is factual or not? You just care what your little detective work has brought up?


Bah Humbug I say. The breeder also alluded to breeding (in the past) Ragdoll cats, so what? She might be a co-owner of a couple of Poodles so what? She might breed Poms and Yorkies is that so bad? Two breeds is not outside of the possibility of a reputable breeder.


Maybe we should have on this site, bad owner reviews, kind of levelling the playing field so to speak!

As far as I'm concerned this was a pretty big hit on me. Everyone who has been on this site for even just a month knows that referring to me as a bad dog owner would be one of the worst things anyone could say to me yes even Gemy. But I'm sure because everyone is so much better at writing things that there hits get cleaverly disguised so no one is the wiser!

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

Poms, poodles, yorkies, ragdolls...to me that doesnt come across as a breeder loving a breed and breeding for its betterment. It comes across as just another person making $$$ of the backs of animals. Add to that the multiple names she goes by and FL and NY sales...thats alot of red flags for me.

That is a ton of red flags...

[lynzy420]

omg....anyway, I actually agree with Taylor on this...there are multiple bad reviews on many google queries...Magicgenie and Gemy when I google your phone numbers and breeding business name I don't find a host of other redflags like I do with Kim Balas...i wonder really why the bandwagon for this breeder?

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

As far as I'm concerned this was a pretty big hit on me. Everyone who has been on this site for even just a month knows that referring to me as a bad dog owner would be one of the worst things anyone could say to me yes even Gemy. But I'm sure because everyone is so much better at writing things that there hits get cleaverly disguised so no one is the wiser!

Yep and yep and yep....just wow...

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

As far as I'm concerned this was a pretty big hit on me. Everyone who has been on this site for even just a month knows that referring to me as a bad dog owner would be one of the worst things anyone could say to me yes even Gemy. But I'm sure because everyone is so much better at writing things that there hits get cleaverly disguised so no one is the wiser!

Trust me Taylor, if they ever have reviews of pet owners on YT, YOU will NOT be on that list. I could start a list, but of course, that would get me in a heap of trouble. Just suffice it to say if anyone meant that towards you it was merely button pushing and nothing else! Ignore it.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

omg....anyway, I actually agree with Taylor on this...there are multiple bad reviews on many google queries...Magicgenie and Gemy when I google your phone numbers and breeding business name I don't find a host of other redflags like I do with Kim Balas...i wonder really why the bandwagon for this breeder?

Lynzy I don't think I have shared my personal phone numbers here, and I don't have a business breeding name, so how could you have googled either one? Just would like to know.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I never say my opinion is a fact but there were a few facts about this breeder. Her ads selling a different breed puppy were facts they where there for everyone to see and it's a fact the pups were being sold at 8 weeks and it's there for everyone to see. A non reputable in my opinion from talking to reputable breeders, people who know this breed and study's on puppies as well as all the articles I have read say a small breed puppy should stay with there mom until 12 weeks. Almost all of the posters who have been here and even Ann the moderator has been seen saying pups should stay with there moms until 12 weeks. In my opinion if you do one thing wrong as a breeder you probably do something else wrong as well. I'm not going to respect someone I feel does things wrong like what I think is a bad breeder. You can not say my words are sarcastic because you can not hear them it is simply your interpretation. It has been said here many times a poster does not make another poster leave they choose to do it. Something my therapist repeats to me often surprisingly when we are talking about YorkieTalk no one can make anyone do anything. So it wasn't rude or nasty for Gemy to take a hit at me being a bad pet owner when I sure as heck have done more for my dog and gone into debt for my dog more then most would do. She knows that because of how much I love my Callie just how big and bad that would hit. In the real world people lie threw there teeth and my naive believe everyone has gotten me into massive trouble before so I have learned you can't take everyone for what they say especially when one we are on a message board and when I have multiple people telling me they think the same thing. It was not meant to be an attack on Gemy you can choose to believe me or not but it wasn't and I apologized that she felt it was because I am sorry that she thought I was doing that. It gets tiring when people take every single word you have to say and find a deferent meaning then what you really meant. The breeder could still come back and explain and if I feel I'm wrong I would apologize, I have done it before but I'm guessing there is no explain action that it is what it is. I have been told to always remember to write in my opinion yet that is still not good enough. So what is it you people want? Me to not be me? Me to lie? Me to only post positive stuff with rainbows and sunshine even though nothing is like that? Maybe that is why people decided to leave........

Taylor, if a person does not accept an apology there is nothing else you can do. It happens sometimes....you apologize because you mean it....and if they don't accept it, then they just don't.

As for what they want...who knows? I personally would not lose sleep over it. Just be true to yourself. I have seen so much growth in you on this forum over time....just keep it up girl! You are doing your best to share your knowledge and experience and you have as much of a right to voice your opinions as anyone else.

I also don't get what the deal is with this breeder. I would never fully support a breeder unless I knew something about them. So, yes, I too would think anyone who supported her would know something about her. BUT just because I would do it that way, does not mean they do. Maybe they don't know her and are simply reacting to people not rolling out the red carpet...I don't know.