Using a spray bottle of water while training aggressive behavior, good or bad method

[matese]

As some of you may know Cody was adopted 10 months ago, he is 3 y/o. He appears to be dog aggressive. 4 weeks ago after a humiliating vet appointment I decided he’s needs obedience training. Lucky me that day I met a yorkie breeder whose dogs go for agility training. She saw Cody’s behavior, I asked if she could recommend an obedience school, the answer was yes. So Cody went for his 3rd session last Wed. Let me add, I must take the blame for little improvement with his training, I signed him up, then got swamped with business matters that leaves me very little time to work with him and not being home. This last Wed. was Cody 3rd time being in close proximity with another dog. When we entered the training area the other dog was there, Cody is wagging his tail, not pulling or lunging, I am seeing only his back not his face. The trainer says to bring him closer to this other dog (a minipin which is 4 times bigger then Cody) they get nose to nose, wow awesome, then the minipin goes into attack mode, well so much for a friendly met & greet. From that point on, Cody held a grudge, every time I passed the minipin Cody went into his Cujo mode. The trainer took him from me, made several passes by the minipin, each time Cody pulled or lunged she sprayed his head with water, that stopped Cody in his tracks. She made several more passes by the minipin and Cody in fear looked up at the trainer, but NO pulling or lunging NO LOOKING at the minipin. I have read very few posts here on YT about using the water spray method for behavior training. Does anyone here have experience with water spraying in behavior training, does it work, is it a good method, will this make Cody fearful of water. I have raised many pups at age of 8 weeks old, all my babies loved all animals, dogs, cows, sheep, goats, horses ppl. Cody is my first adopted pup, I don’t know how his prev. owner handled socializing him with other dogs, I have my own ideas but that’s to long of a story lol. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[richards6402]

I am interested in this thread also. I have used the water method for uncontrollable barking in the past. I only had to spray a couple of times and the barking stopped. Now I only have to show the spray bottle and the barking stops without spraying. The only thing is, if I don't have the spray bottle in my hand and she can actually see it, she still barks. I tried shaking a can with pennies in it ever time she barked and that only made her mad and she started barking at the can so I was really creating a monster.


I also have one that is dog aggressive and she lunges at bigger dogs. She has no problem with smaller dogs, only bigger dogs and it seems if they are white and fluffy she doubles her hatred. From what I have read the smaller dog is showing fear or stress and that is why they are lunging at the bigger dog. I asked a fellow YTer that I respect what I should do and she gave me some excellent advice. The only thing is, my friends with dogs don't want to use their dog as my training aid.

[matese]

Originally Posted by richards6402

I am interested in this thread also. I have used the water method for uncontrollable barking in the past. I only had to spray a couple of times and the barking stopped. Now I only have to show the spray bottle and the barking stops without spraying. The only thing is, if I don't have the spray bottle in my hand and she can actually see it, she still barks. I tried shaking a can with pennies in it ever time she barked and that only made her mad and she started barking at the can so I was really creating a monster.


I also have one that is dog aggressive and she lunges at bigger dogs. She has no problem with smaller dogs, only bigger dogs and it seems if they are white and fluffy she doubles her hatred. From what I have read the smaller dog is showing fear or stress and that is why they are lunging at the bigger dog. I asked a fellow YTer that I respect what I should do and she gave me some excellent advice. The only thing is, my friends with dogs don't want to use their dog as my training aid.

Like I wrote I have had many puppies, I had one barker, (this was yearsss ago) I used the penny can shaker, like yours did, it only made her worse. I guess it works on some dogs, but I won't try it again lol. Carry a spray bottle all the time was a concern to me, I know for a fact, my lil boy will actually have to see it to keep him in control, also winter will soon be upon us, if he would need to be water sprayed he would have a frozen face!!!!! When I first got Cody my I asked the rescue team gal was he dog friendly, she said yes because when they rescued him it was a 3 hour trip from NY where he came from to Pa. and there was another dog they had rescued, so he was in a car with another dog, I am sure they were in diff. crates. Well I had him about 3 weeks, in that time he saw no other dogs, I called a friend of mine that has a male neutered lil pug, very sweet, non aggressive, ask if we can meet in a neutral location, I wanted to see if Cody was dog friendly (Cody is also neutered). So we met, at first Cody was wagging his tail, again, I am behind him, I see body languish, not face, he goes nice to meet the pug, then I hear growling, the pug is backing up, the more the pug backs up, the closer Cody gets, all the time growling, now the pug is behind his daddy's legs, Cody still growling,now acting like a bully, I ask my friend is he serious because my friend can see Cody's face, he says yes he's serious. I ended the meet and greet, I will not put another dog in that position again. I will not have Cody intimidate another friends dog. I wouldn't want to make my friends dog to fear other dogs. This past Wed. at Cody's training session when he went to meet the dog he was training with, I think the minipin was acting out what he had been subjected to by Cody on the first 2 sessions. I don't want Cody passing on his bad behavior to other dogs, this I told the trainer, I felt it was Cody's fault the minipin got mouthy, the trainer told me not to worry about that, it was a one time thing. We have another session this Wed. I will take the spray bottle, Cody will know what that means, he's a very smart boy.

[Cha Cha]

Personally, I don't like a spray bottle. IMO dogs are smart enough to know when you have the bottle in hand. IMO your trainer is asking your dog to act out only so she can spray him or make a correction. Even if the other dog is the one to first act, your dog gets sprayed. That doesn't seem right to me.

It kind of sounds to me like you might want to consider your actions to Cody's behavior. Dogs absolutely respond to your own body language. Maybe without really knowing it you are asking him to protect you, as you say, you allow him to be ahead of, or in front of you. Maybe he feels the need to protect you rather than be dog aggressive. While walking, on a leash, I never allow my dogs to meet nose to nose with another. Ever. I also expect their attention to always be on me. I can tell when my dogs see something. A rabbit, bird, or even another dog approaching and I know by their behavior or body language when they are not focused on me. I don't have to see their face. I give them a come back to me focus command, "hey" and if they don't obey, I give them a nudge on their harness to say, pay attention to me, and we keep walking uninterrupted. I never have any issues with other dogs.

[shelbysmom]

We use the spray bottle but it is a problem since it's hard to keep handy. I am on the lookout for one of those little kid water pistols. More handy plus I am hoping she will learn to stop barking even when it's empty. I also use words like "no barking" when I spray her and "stop." When she stops she comes to me for a piece of kibble. Stop means treat to her.

You may be able to use the same method for other training issues. It kills me how Yorkie's have selective memory They learn some things so easily and others, not so much.

[matese]

Originally Posted by Cha Cha

Personally, I don't like a spray bottle. IMO dogs are smart enough to know when you have the bottle in hand. IMO your trainer is asking your dog to act out only so she can spray him or make a correction. Even if the other dog is the one to first act, your dog gets sprayed. That doesn't seem right to me.

It kind of sounds to me like you might want to consider your actions to Cody's behavior. Dogs absolutely respond to your own body language. Maybe without really knowing it you are asking him to protect you, as you say, you allow him to be ahead of, or in front of you. Maybe he feels the need to protect you rather than be dog aggressive. While walking, on a leash, I never allow my dogs to meet nose to nose with another. Ever. I also expect their attention to always be on me. I can tell when my dogs see something. A rabbit, bird, or even another dog approaching and I know by their behavior or body language when they are not focused on me. I don't have to see their face. I give them a come back to me focus command, "hey" and if they don't obey, I give them a nudge on their harness to say, pay attention to me, and we keep walking uninterrupted. I never have any issues with other dogs.

I totally agree with all that you have said, I need to re-train myself. 40 years of having dogs, walking them a certain way all now needs to be changed by ME. I know dogs feed off you, I know I need to be relaxed, I know all of this affects the dogs reaction, I admit, I need the training more then him lol. I am sure Cody now knows about the spray bottle. Yes my trainer makes me walk as close as if safe near the other dog, when the trainer took the leash, yes she walked close to the minipin, the other dog was focused on the owner, he didn't even look at Cody, it was Cody that did the lunging, I am not happy about the spray bottle, I was quite upset when she used it, but it did work. I don't walk Cody at my side, yes, all my dogs walked in front of me, with them there was never any issue, that's why I say, I HAVE to change my ways, I have to re-train myself. Thing is, Cody is not leash walked a lot, I have a big yard where he runs and hunts. I do take him out on leash but not very often, too many big dogs get out of their yards or dash out of front door. I take Cody out for one reason only. I live in a heavily wooded area, god forbid he ever gets out of the house he will know his way back home, that is if he stays on the road he will know what his driveway and area smells like, if he gets into the woods he will be gone forever. So when I do walk him he is out front, if I am out of town and on city side walks I agree, he should walk by my side, I have to train him on that. Thank you for your input. I will work on keeping his focus on me, that is one of the things my trainer told me last week. This is all new to Cody and I see he gets very distracted easily, I think in time as he gets use to going for these sessions he will be less distracted. He works fine at home on commands, but there are no distractions here.

[Wylie's Mom]

I don't know how I feel about the spray bottle...on one hand, I don't see it as all that terribly harmful...on the other hand, it *does* bother me if it causes actual fear. I couldn't see spraying my kiddos bc I know I'd feel bad doing it.

BUT if I was in a situation like you were, I may feel differently and may need a different approach like you're taking, ya know? So I can't really say what I'd do. One thing I might try instead/first is using noise to interrupt the behavior...ie, using a metal can full of coins/nails and shaking it really hard near the pup when trying to interrupt a behavior. The problem w/ your situation, though, is that you're in an actual class and this noisy can might inappropriately scare other dogs...but I don't know...maybe something to discuss w/ your trainer and/or try at home?

[Cha Cha]

Originally Posted by matese

I totally agree with all that you have said, I need to re-train myself. 40 years of having dogs, walking them a certain way all now needs to be changed by ME. I know dogs feed off you, I know I need to be relaxed, I know all of this affects the dogs reaction, I admit, I need the training more then him lol. I am sure Cody now knows about the spray bottle. Yes my trainer makes me walk as close as if safe near the other dog, when the trainer took the leash, yes she walked close to the minipin, the other dog was focused on the owner, he didn't even look at Cody, it was Cody that did the lunging, I am not happy about the spray bottle, I was quite upset when she used it, but it did work. I don't walk Cody at my side, yes, all my dogs walked in front of me, with them there was never any issue, that's why I say, I HAVE to change my ways, I have to re-train myself. Thing is, Cody is not leash walked a lot, I have a big yard where he runs and hunts. I do take him out on leash but not very often, too many big dogs get out of their yards or dash out of front door. I take Cody out for one reason only. I live in a heavily wooded area, god forbid he ever gets out of the house he will know his way back home, that is if he stays on the road he will know what his driveway and area smells like, if he gets into the woods he will be gone forever. So when I do walk him he is out front, if I am out of town and on city side walks I agree, he should walk by my side, I have to train him on that. Thank you for your input. I will work on keeping his focus on me, that is one of the things my trainer told me last week. This is all new to Cody and I see he gets very distracted easily, I think in time as he gets use to going for these sessions he will be less distracted. He works fine at home on commands, but there are no distractions here.

I commend you for giving Cody a loving home. And I think in time as he settles in he'll feel more secure too. I know every trainer has different methods. Some I like, some I don't. You'll figure out what you can use and what you need to leave behind, but at least you're there, trying and that is great for him. I do allow my dogs to walk in front of me too. But if I see danger, like another dog, or person walking, or bicycle, etc., I ask them to check up. By that, I mean that I ask them to come back and walk by me until the situation passes. If it's all clear, I do give them the lead though. I didn't want you to think I am totally against a dog walking in front, rather if there is a situation, your dog learns to retreat rather than lunge and pull.

[Silver Lace]

Originally Posted by matese

As some of you may know Cody was adopted 10 months ago, he is 3 y/o. He appears to be dog aggressive. 4 weeks ago after a humiliating vet appointment I decided he’s needs obedience training. Lucky me that day I met a yorkie breeder whose dogs go for agility training. She saw Cody’s behavior, I asked if she could recommend an obedience school, the answer was yes. So Cody went for his 3rd session last Wed. Let me add, I must take the blame for little improvement with his training, I signed him up, then got swamped with business matters that leaves me very little time to work with him and not being home. This last Wed. was Cody 3rd time being in close proximity with another dog. When we entered the training area the other dog was there, Cody is wagging his tail, not pulling or lunging, I am seeing only his back not his face. The trainer says to bring him closer to this other dog (a minipin which is 4 times bigger then Cody) they get nose to nose, wow awesome, then the minipin goes into attack mode, well so much for a friendly met & greet. From that point on, Cody held a grudge, every time I passed the minipin Cody went into his Cujo mode. The trainer took him from me, made several passes by the minipin, each time Cody pulled or lunged she sprayed his head with water, that stopped Cody in his tracks. She made several more passes by the minipin and Cody in fear looked up at the trainer, but NO pulling or lunging NO LOOKING at the minipin. I have read very few posts here on YT about using the water spray method for behavior training. Does anyone here have experience with water spraying in behavior training, does it work, is it a good method, will this make Cody fearful of water. I have raised many pups at age of 8 weeks old, all my babies loved all animals, dogs, cows, sheep, goats, horses ppl. Cody is my first adopted pup, I don’t know how his prev. owner handled socializing him with other dogs, I have my own ideas but that’s to long of a story lol. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Joan,
After reading the start of your post I have to say that I am totally confused. Ok,you said you did not see the face of Cody as he neared the minipin but he was wagging his tail and not pulling or lunging and that they were nose to nose. Sounds fine to me so far except maybe the way he was wagging his tail. Could have been friendly or not but I don't know that part. What I don't understand is the fact that the minipin went into attack mode on Cody and Cody was punished and forced to keep going back to the minipin over and over and had his face sprayed with water like he was the villain here. It seems to me the one who was wrong was the minipin and if Cody started to lunge after him it was because of the aggression of the minipin. Doesn't sound right to me but that is just the way I see it. Show me what I don't understand will you? Sorry this is all happening to you guys. Sherri

[Lovetodream88]

I use the spray bottle method with a lot of things but in that case I wouldn't but that's just my opinion.normally after one of two squirts they realize what the bottle is and they just have to see it. In my opinion it's much better then shaking a can of coins or making a loud noise because that can be linked to why dogs fear loud noises and that happened with Callie. Water was the only way to get Callie to stop her puppy nipping she would even do it on the stairs and that caused fear of someone falling or her getting hurt. It worked well with no lasting issues. When my parents rescued Sammy he wanted to hump there two dogs and the only thing that worked was the squirt bottle and he stopped humping them.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I don't know how I feel about the spray bottle...on one hand, I don't see it as all that terribly harmful...on the other hand, it *does* bother me if it causes actual fear. I couldn't see spraying my kiddos bc I know I'd feel bad doing it.

BUT if I was in a situation like you were, I may feel differently and may need a different approach like you're taking, ya know? So I can't really say what I'd do. One thing I might try instead/first is using noise to interrupt the behavior...ie, using a metal can full of coins/nails and shaking it really hard near the pup when trying to interrupt a behavior. The problem w/ your situation, though, is that you're in an actual class and this noisy can might inappropriately scare other dogs...but I don't know...maybe something to discuss w/ your trainer and/or try at home?

I have never seen it cause fear in fact mine wants to drink from it sometimes lol. The problem with using a loud noise is that can cause fear and there was a sudy/ story about it in one of my dog magazines a year or two ago and it happened with Callie.

[chachi]

I have used the pennies in a can and it doesnt cause fear neither the water bottle method. If a dog displays fear from using it it is because they already had fears not because you used either method. I even use the water bottle method with my cat to keep her from getting at koi in my pond and it worked

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

I have used the pennies in a can and it doesnt cause fear neither the water bottle method. If a dog displays fear from using it it is because they already had fears not because you used either method. I even use the water bottle method with my cat to keep her from getting at koi in my pond and it worked

There was a study done a couple years ago that using sound to correct behavior can cause fear of loud sounds.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

There was a study done a couple years ago that using sound to correct behavior can cause fear of loud sounds.

I dont care what study has been done and pennies in a can has been an effective training tool for many dogs. It may cause fear in dogs that are already fearful I dont know. What I do know is I have 2 dogs one that fears nothing and one that fears loud noises neither was affected by the pennies in a can. The one that is fearful of noises was already fearful of noises but the pennies in a can gets her attention and gets her to quit barking. It doesnt cause her to cower and hide which would be signs of fear

[mrsedwardslpn]

Get a whistle. .. worked for me