honest thoughts w/o the uglies.

[vnauman]

My sweet Lambeau came from a byb....I know that I must be the lowest of lows to those of you who feel so strongly against this practice...my dog is healthy and well mannered and the joy of my life. He gets regular vet checks and is well socialized. I can't help but feel like I'm not quite good enough to share with those of you who got their dog the 'right' way. It's posts like this that keeps me from participating. I come & read posts to keep up with the latest news in the Yorkie world, this sight is an amazing wealth of knowledge. So I'll continue lurking for the latest news but I think I'll stay in the fringes.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by vnauman

My sweet Lambeau came from a byb....I know that I must be the lowest of lows to those of you who feel so strongly against this practice...my dog is healthy and well mannered and the joy of my life. He gets regular vet checks and is well socialized. I can't help but feel like I'm not quite good enough to share with those of you who got their dog the 'right' way. It's posts like this that keeps me from participating. I come & read posts to keep up with the latest news in the Yorkie world, this sight is an amazing wealth of knowledge. So I'll continue lurking for the latest news but I think I'll stay in the fringes.

You must be lurking in the wrong sections because many many many of us have gotten our dogs from byb's, puppymills, etc....but not intentionally, we weren't educated and ended up at YT because of problems with our pups and we now advocate against them because of our education and experience. If you intentionally purchased a pup from a byb and knew this going in that's on you but I wonder why you would want to perpetuate the problem of these kinds of breeders/greeders/etc....

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by vnauman

My sweet Lambeau came from a byb....I know that I must be the lowest of lows to those of you who feel so strongly against this practice...my dog is healthy and well mannered and the joy of my life. He gets regular vet checks and is well socialized. I can't help but feel like I'm not quite good enough to share with those of you who got their dog the 'right' way. It's posts like this that keeps me from participating. I come & read posts to keep up with the latest news in the Yorkie world, this sight is an amazing wealth of knowledge. So I'll continue lurking for the latest news but I think I'll stay in the fringes.

It's your breeder who is the lowest of lows not you. Most of us didn't get our yorkies from good breeders because we didn't know better. A lot of members also have dogs they have rescued which haven't come from great breeders. I think most of us have been there and done that with bad breeders and it's why we try to educate people about them. Mine came from a puppy mill. Mine is the reason I am so passionate about bad breeders and educating people about not buying from them. I have had to watch my little baby girl who like your is my life go through heck and back because the people who breed her parents just didn't care. It's a different story when you have the information and still choose to by from a byb because your keeping a breeder who is not breeding to better the breed in business.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by vnauman

My sweet Lambeau came from a byb....I know that I must be the lowest of lows to those of you who feel so strongly against this practice...my dog is healthy and well mannered and the joy of my life. He gets regular vet checks and is well socialized. I can't help but feel like I'm not quite good enough to share with those of you who got their dog the 'right' way. It's posts like this that keeps me from participating. I come & read posts to keep up with the latest news in the Yorkie world, this sight is an amazing wealth of knowledge. So I'll continue lurking for the latest news but I think I'll stay in the fringes.

Most of us got dogs from back yard breeders, some from pounds and some from rescues. No reason to feel badly about it. I'm glad you have a healthy dog and that's what counts, but many aren't as lucky as you were. It's a free country and you can get your dog from wherever you like, but just know when you choose places like pet stores, your dog probably came from a puppy mill and the breeding dogs are not treated well. At least with a back yard breeder, the breeding dogs aren't being mistreated most of the time, but sometimes because of person's lack of knowledge, the mama does suffer and die. There's no way people will ever understand WHY you should go to a good breeder unless someone gives them the information on why it's important. What's done is done, and I hope before you get another dog, you will consider shelters, rescues or going to a breeder who is breeding for heath. So don't feel badly, educate yourself and others why it's important to seek out good breeders, but in the end it's their decision. There's a saying , "You can't do better, till you know better", and that's why what many of us are trying to educate people on Yorkietalk.

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by vnauman

My sweet Lambeau came from a byb....I know that I must be the lowest of lows to those of you who feel so strongly against this practice...my dog is healthy and well mannered and the joy of my life. He gets regular vet checks and is well socialized. I can't help but feel like I'm not quite good enough to share with those of you who got their dog the 'right' way. It's posts like this that keeps me from participating. I come & read posts to keep up with the latest news in the Yorkie world, this sight is an amazing wealth of knowledge. So I'll continue lurking for the latest news but I think I'll stay in the fringes.

Please do not feel that way. I got my dog from a Pet shop through a broker thru a puppy mill. We are not against the person who buys from a backyard breeder. What we get upset about are the poster who have gotten a dog whether from a backyard breeder or and AKC breeder who does not do genetic testing and does not care about the pup or the person who brought the dog home and is emotionally attached and when the dog develops an illness or a genetic condition and the breeder says not my problem or does not return the calls or take responsibility. Thats what we are against. My Buster had kennel cough, giardia, coccidia, luxating patellas and arthritis diagnosed when he was less than one year old. My first post was after dropping him off at the emergency hospital for a three day stay on IV antibiotics which cost over 2 thousand dollars. Then there was the LP surgery which cost over 4 thousand dollars for one leg we are waiting to see if the other legs starts bothering him. All in all I have spent over 11,000 dollars on him the first 5 years of his life. That is what we are trying to spare other members before they fall in love and bring that puppy home. I disagree with some posters here not all BYB dogs are poorly bred and not all AKC dogs are genetically tested. We just try to warn people before they are emotionally attached and financially strapped to do their research. We support and love all dogs big or small and their owners we just hate to see people emotionally devastated and Yorkies suffering so if we can steer people in the right direction we try to.

[mimimomo]

Just post & let others post. What you like, you take w/you, what you don't like, leave it. There's so many different types of flowers, animals, insects, reptiles, fishies (& the list goes on) in the world...there's lots of different people too. Let's all try to get along.

Originally Posted by vnauman

My sweet Lambeau came from a byb....I know that I must be the lowest of lows to those of you who feel so strongly against this practice...my dog is healthy and well mannered and the joy of my life. He gets regular vet checks and is well socialized. I can't help but feel like I'm not quite good enough to share with those of you who got their dog the 'right' way. It's posts like this that keeps me from participating. I come & read posts to keep up with the latest news in the Yorkie world, this sight is an amazing wealth of knowledge. So I'll continue lurking for the latest news but I think I'll stay in the fringes.

I think there's a huge misunderstanding or misinterpretation via the web...you shouldn't feel that way @ all. I'm probably lower than you (loll), I went to go see Momo bc he was advertised as 'teacup' (out of curiosity) & I couldn't leave him behind. He's my baby boy & I wouldn't give him up for anything but feel lousy that I supported the broker or puppy mill or whoever it was. So I try my best to spread the knowledge, to those unsuspecting.

[gemy]

Yet again I will continue to post that there are NO GENETIC TESTS for Yorkies that cover LP, HD, ED, Leggs Perthes, LS, MVD, Hypothryoidism et al.

There are how-ever screening tests that should be done on the breeding pair. BATS for Liver function sic LS MVD. Specific blood work for Thryoid problems. Eye exams for PRA and Cataracts. LP examination by Vets and submitted to the OFA.

Cardiac Problems - again Screening tests.

Hearing - BAER test


A genetic test for a simple autosomal dominate trait will tell the breeder if the dog has this prior to breeding the dog. There are very well known consequences and inheritance patterns for breeding a dog with such a condition.

The very most a breeder can do is screen for what they can, insure the other side of the breeding pair has indeed been screened, look at the pedigrees and health of offspring from each breeding dog, and then make the decision to breed or not.

In Summary there are as of yet NO Relevant Genetic Tests for Yorkies. Perhaps possible exception of PRA

[mimimomo]

Originally Posted by gemy

Yet again I will continue to post that there are NO GENETIC TESTS for Yorkies that cover LP, HD, ED, Leggs Perthes, LS, MVD, Hypothryoidism et al.

There are how-ever screening tests that should be done on the breeding pair. BATS for Liver function sic LS MVD. Specific blood work for Thryoid problems. Eye exams for PRA and Cataracts. LP examination by Vets and submitted to the OFA.

Cardiac Problems - again Screening tests.

Hearing - BAER test


A genetic test for a simple autosomal dominate trait will tell the breeder if the dog has this prior to breeding the dog. There are very well known consequences and inheritance patterns for breeding a dog with such a condition.

The very most a breeder can do is screen for what they can, insure the other side of the breeding pair has indeed been screened, look at the pedigrees and health of offspring from each breeding dog, and then make the decision to breed or not.

In Summary there are as of yet NO Relevant Genetic Tests for Yorkies. Perhaps possible exception of PRA

gemy, what is HD & ED?

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by vnauman

My sweet Lambeau came from a byb....I know that I must be the lowest of lows to those of you who feel so strongly against this practice...my dog is healthy and well mannered and the joy of my life. He gets regular vet checks and is well socialized. I can't help but feel like I'm not quite good enough to share with those of you who got their dog the 'right' way. It's posts like this that keeps me from participating. I come & read posts to keep up with the latest news in the Yorkie world, this sight is an amazing wealth of knowledge. So I'll continue lurking for the latest news but I think I'll stay in the fringes.

Now here I go....allowing someone to push my buttons again.....
THIS post hurts MY feelings! So shall I wring my hands and run away????????? Maybe I can get it deleted???? NOT! There is nothing outside the parameters of proper socially acceptable posting rules and behavior, so it stands! All I am going to say is PLEASE do NOT judge me or what I think or believe about other people, unless it comes directly from my own lips to God's ears. I am one of those who "feels very strongly about supporting BYB and puppy mills". Unless a person knows in their heart they are dealing with a BYB or a puppy mill, then that person is no worse than most of us that got taken advantage of by these people. If the person KNOWS they are dealing with unethical, greedy breeders that could care less about health issues they are producing with their breeding programs, then dont be looking for sympathy from me when the pup goes south on you.....my heart will break for the poor innocent pup, but that is as far as I concern myself with your misfortune! "LOWEST OF LOWS"???? The only person that is relegated to that level, in MY mind, is THE BREEDER!!! NOT YOU!!! Not anyone that is a victim of a puppy mill.....please do not project your guilt about yourself, on me!!! This is just like the poster that said her dog "must be crap", apparently according to what SHE thinks YT members seem to feel....stop trying to make YT members look like over judgemental, closed minded, hostile nincompoops that feel that we are elitists and have no concern or feelings for people that make mistakes. This is crazy! Do not think for one minute you can even suppose to know what I think about people that are taken advantage of by unethical, irresponsible, dishonest, incompassionate, selfish, unaccountable, greedy "breeders" that prey on vulnerable people! By the way.....I happen to think it is wonderful that your pup is healthy and happy and I hope he continues for a very long time in excellent health!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

gemy, what is HD & ED?

Hip Dysplasia and Elbow Dysplasia. Elbows are rarely done in Yorkies so the prevalence is unknown.

How-ever along with HD Leggs Perthes rears its ugly head. Somewhere around 7-8 months old usually the owner notices altered gait and goes to the vet. Leggs Perthes happens because of lack of blood supply to the femoral head. The head of the femur begins to disintegrate, it is painfull and the only remedy is surgery. It is thought to be a polygenetic condition --- and no genetic tests are available for this disease.

HD is thought to be on the rise A different pathology, but if severe, is as disabling as Leggs Perthes. To understand a bit, cup one of your hands and make a fist with the other, and place the fist into the palm/cup of the other hand. That is the hip joint and should fit snugly into the cup. The cup is called the acetabulum, and the fist is the head of the femur bone/ thigh bone. With HD either the acetabulum is too shallow or too wide, and or the ball or end of the femur is too large or too small, in any case the hip joint does not fit snugly.

Again another condition that is thought to be polygenetic, and there are NO Genetic Tests for it.

With small breeds and particularly with very mild cases of HD or ED, they actually never get diagnosed. But as the dog ages into their senior years apparent *early* arthritis seems to creep in.

With severe cases of HD in ToyBreeds again the only remedy is FHO surgery, which for large breeds is not very successful, with toy breeds they usually enjoy a good success rate with FHO

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by gemy

Yet again I will continue to post that there are NO GENETIC TESTS for Yorkies that cover LP, HD, ED, Leggs Perthes, LS, MVD, Hypothryoidism et al.

There are how-ever screening tests that should be done on the breeding pair. BATS for Liver function sic LS MVD. Specific blood work for Thryoid problems. Eye exams for PRA and Cataracts. LP examination by Vets and submitted to the OFA.

Cardiac Problems - again Screening tests.

Hearing - BAER test


A genetic test for a simple autosomal dominate trait will tell the breeder if the dog has this prior to breeding the dog. There are very well known consequences and inheritance patterns for breeding a dog with such a condition.

The very most a breeder can do is screen for what they can, insure the other side of the breeding pair has indeed been screened, look at the pedigrees and health of offspring from each breeding dog, and then make the decision to breed or not.

In Summary there are as of yet NO Relevant Genetic Tests for Yorkies. Perhaps possible exception of PRA

This is why seeking out a reputable breeder who knows their lines is so important. These are breeders who go back several generations, breeders who stay in contact with their families and who have done all the work it takes to produce healthy pups, while not always a guarantee, it is definitely a more reliable way to purchase a pup.....

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

Oh, who could that be? LOL It's been said multiple times, that someone chased me away, even by a moderator in a PM. I just don't post much any more.

Mother Theresa receives preferential treatment when it comes to deletions what makes you feel actions would be taken against a saint like that?

When this thread was first posted, between the title and first post, I had just skipped it. It was difficult to decipher the question. Now, with 80+ posts, I read a bit more. Some became focused on the title and ignored the question. Why bother unless ya just want to show the ugly. LOL Seems the question was valid once it was clarified and yet some still focused on the title. Why open the thread if the title offended you? Seems if "some" others would have skipped the thread, it would have answered the OPs question and remained peaceful as it should have.

Perhaps a better subject line would have been: Need advice on getting two puppies

Then, no one would have to open the thread to see what it was about.
It could have been something that someone had experience with, but if they just skipped it because of the subject, then the OP might miss good advice.

So simple yet it seems to have eluded a couple of people who are commenting on this thread.

[maggiefromnj]

I didn't bother to read all the back and forth once I saw it posted that OP was oly going to get the one pup. I was going to suggest that she get one first, and ask for the other to stay at the breeder until 2 weeks after it's shots. That way they can be kept separate until the shots take effect. Ideally they would both stay with their mom's until after the shots. Can you offer the breeders a little extra $ to keep them longer? (I assume they would want $ in case their is extra expense and extra "labor'). Looks like the cost of the shots would be on the OP either way.

I do like the spoiled pup concept, but sometimes wish Maggie had a live in playmate, and it probably would be easier to get them together rather than hope they get along later when you might bring a new one home...

Double the fun can also be double the mess!

[Buster Brown]

Thanks Gemy for correcting my incorrect information. That is why I am so glad we have such knowledgeable posters to help us with the facts.

[MaWilliams3]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Perhaps a better subject line would have been: Need advice on getting two puppies

Then, no one would have to open the thread to see what it was about.
It could have been something that someone had experience with, but if they just skipped it because of the subject, then the OP might miss good advice.


So simple yet it seems to have eluded a couple of people who are commenting on this thread.

Ouch! Again, condescending.