Five pounds and under question

[mimimomo]

As always, our argument is unethical breeder VS ethical breeder. Reputable breeder VS unscrupulous breeder.

It's been said over & over, good breeders will have tinies, not all the time, but it does happen. An experienced breeder knows this, who throws tinies. A healthy 7# female that free whelps (no c-sections) can give birth to a healthy 3 oz pup that will grow to be a healthy 3#'s.

It's been frowned upon, those that purposely breed 4# & under females to get tiny puppies. Put the female's life @ risk, repeated c-sections, where their tummy gets hard like a turtle from scar tissue (I've seen this from a retired breeder). Pups are @ a dangerously low weight @ birth, under 2 oz even 1 oz, putting them @ risk. A breeder that puts their dogs' lives @ risk is IMO, practicing animal cruelty.
Shame on those people that keep these unethical breeders in business! Shame on them for keeping their eyes closed...all bc they want a tiny accessory to carry around in their designer doggie bags. Paying puppy millers $4000+, do you know they perform c-sections on their females w/out any anesthesia? Unbelievably barbaric, & you still choose to be blind.

You also don't hear about all the horror stories of pups born w/cleft palates & dying w/in a few days...it's all over FB. It might seem rare, but it happens all too often. You'd think they would have the decency to spay & neuter the breeding pair...no, they just keep going. Why? Someone that was defending this animal abuser said, 'Well, someone's got to breed so we can have these cute Yorkies!'

Ok, rant over whew!

Originally Posted by shelbysmom

This is what has been recommended all along. If you want a tiny go to a breeder that is a reputable breeder and wait for a tiny. Reputable breeders always use larger females with smaller males, so yes they will have some smaller pups. As far as the piebald gene, if you research it is connected to deafness in dogs and a deaf pup may show up. It doesn't mean every pup will be deaf but it increases the risk. Buying a pup is always a risk, I would encourage everyone to do all they can to get a healthy pup first. You can still have issues but at least you know you did all you could.

[mimimomo]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

From what I've learned in dealing with this issue, it is all about the intent of the breeder and whether or not producing a tiny puppy for maximum dollar return or producing a puppy that will improve the breed is uppermost in the breeder's mind. It seems to me that those who breed for tiny size, large heads, short, short muzzles and large eyes - breeding for looks alone - don't really care about the health of the parents or the breeding pair but just go for what's "teacup cute" and will sell early for a lot of money.

But the reputable breeder who is only breeding to make this breed healthier and producing a litter with a great temperament will carefully study the genetics of conformation and genetic-heredity of each of the lines of the dogs they are considering breeding plus those potential breeders' health and temperament and breed only dogs together who will create sound, hardy puppies.

That is why it stands to reason that the intent of the breeder of standard-sized Yorkies - and that standard size is still a pretty small dog after all - from reputable breeders would tend to be hardier, temperate dogs.

Very well said Jeanie.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

If you are truly looking for a small dog find a reputable breeder, after she screens you thoroughly she may give you one of her few tiny pups. Don't purchase from any breeder who breeds for tiny, teacup etc... there are 1000's of threads here pro and con for tiny and big...there are thousands of healthy and not healthy tiny Yorkie stories. Your chances of getting a healthy Yorkie big or small all depends on the breeder you choose. Good Luck and keep us posted.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

As always, our argument is unethical breeder VS ethical breeder. Reputable breeder VS unscrupulous breeder.

It's been said over & over, good breeders will have tinies, not all the time, but it does happen. An experienced breeder knows this, who throws tinies. A healthy 7# female that free whelps (no c-sections) can give birth to a healthy 3 oz pup that will grow to be a healthy 3#'s.

It's been frowned upon, those that purposely breed 4# & under females to get tiny puppies. Put the female's life @ risk, repeated c-sections, where their tummy gets hard like a turtle from scar tissue (I've seen this from a retired breeder). Pups are @ a dangerously low weight @ birth, under 2 oz even 1 oz, putting them @ risk. A breeder that puts their dogs' lives @ risk is IMO, practicing animal cruelty.
Shame on those people that keep these unethical breeders in business! Shame on them for keeping their eyes closed...all bc they want a tiny accessory to carry around in their designer doggie bags. Paying puppy millers $4000+, do you know they perform c-sections on their females w/out any anesthesia? Unbelievably barbaric, & you still choose to be blind.

You also don't hear about all the horror stories of pups born w/cleft palates & dying w/in a few days...it's all over FB. It might seem rare, but it happens all too often. You'd think they would have the decency to spay & neuter the breeding pair...no, they just keep going. Why? Someone that was defending this animal abuser said, 'Well, someone's got to breed so we can have these cute Yorkies!'

Ok, rant over whew!

Totally agree with your brilliant rant against those breeders that just don't seem to care about the health of the dogs themselves and are just in it for the money and whatever else it is that keeps them breeding for the tiniest dogs with the largest heads, most prominent foreheads, biggest eyes and shortest muzzles they possibly can achieve, Yorkie-standard be dam*ed. I think another reason they breed the ultra tinies is they actually enjoy all the attention-by-proxy they get from showing off those sweet, ultra tiny puppies, often displayed in baby-nursery-like rooms lying in frilly bassinets or baby beds with pastel plush toys and baby blankets tucked around them as lullabies play in the background! It's all designed to appeal to the woman who wants to buy a dog that will always look like a perpetual puppy and how much money she is willing to pay for that dream.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

If you are purposefully breeding for small pups it's to make more money therefor that makes you a bad breeder. A reputable breeder breeds to better the breed not make a living. A reputable breeder also does health testing and everything they can to make sure there pups have the best chance at being healthy. What's the dilio with you? Why do you seem so angry or upset?

This is how we differ on how we read and interpret things. I dont look at your posts and think oh that mean Taylor why is she so angry when you have a different opinion than mine. It just means we are different people from different walks of life and we have different opinions. Im not afraid to post my opinion even if it is different than everyone elses on the forum and if I think it will be helpful I will post it.

[Cat2861]

Originally Posted by Kpattray

I wound love to hear comments from owners of Yorkies that weigh five pounds or less, or smaller ones in general. I have heard that they are more likely to have health issues, yet I have encountered so many that dispute that is the "expected". If your little one has had any medical issues, what are they and at what age was it detected? If you have had very healthy pets, what age or how long have they lived?

I will give you my opinion with my little Remy. I did not want a tiny and I would not pay the price that breeders bad or good ask for these little ones. I wanted a male yorkie and my breeder had 3 pups. Two female and one male. Their mommy was over 5 lbs and dad was 4 lbs. Well, it just so happened that Remy was the runt. His sisters are now over 4 lbs and Remy is only 2 1/2 lbs. Fortunately, my kids are grown so I don't have to worry about small children (no grand kids yet). My breeder kept Remy until he was 4 mths old (mostly because he was tiny but also because I was moving to Florida). When I got him he was 1 lb 6 oz. I worry about him all the time and I am very protective over him. We have to always be cautious of where he is because he is so little and we don't want to step on him etc. He is a fast one though. . I have not had any issue with him whatsoever (other than him being a picky eater). When I got him I talked to my vet extensively about my concerns of illnesses or issues with small dogs. We went to the vet last week because I want to get Remy neutered and for him to check to see if Remy still has baby teeth that need to be pulled (he has to have 2 teeth pulled). He examined Remy, complimented on how well behaved and groomed he was, did an orthopedic check and stated he was a strong little boy. He advised me that Remy probably won't be over 3 lbs. I advised him that his dad & granddad are little. He stated that more than likely Remy is just taking after his dad & granddad but he wants to make sure by running certain tests before he neuters a dog. End result, I got the call from the vet on Wednesday and all of Remy's tests came back perfect. No liver shunt or anything. Now could something later on down the road come up...of course it can but knowing the history of his parents and grandparents, etc they are very healthy and I hope Remy is blessed as well. We have been very vigilant with making sure Remy does not jump off/on any furniture or beds. Honestly, he is so little he doesn't even try to jump because he can't reach anything. My sisters first yorkie was little and he lived to be 16. Either way to me, little/big, sick/healthy I love them dearly! I have had my share of healthy & sick dogs that weren't yorkies. It just all depends on the dog. If you are looking for a yorkie, I would suggest that you make sure you do your research, pick a good breeder and ask the right questions. Best of luck!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

This is how we differ on how we read and interpret things. I dont look at your posts and think oh that mean Taylor why is she so angry when you have a different opinion than mine. It just means we are different people from different walks of life and we have different opinions. Im not afraid to post my opinion even if it is different than everyone elses on the forum and if I think it will be helpful I will post it.

You just seem on edge and riled up sense the other day. Just concerned.

[chachi]

Well I dont like it when people give opinions that differ from facts but I cant control how anyone posts and I know that. I will explain my positions though and let the chips fall where they may

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

Well I dont like it when people give opinions that differ from facts but I cant control how anyone posts and I know that. I will explain my positions though and let the chips fall where they may

Everyone gives there opinions here that's what a lot of the board is made up of as well as some facts and personal experience thrown in with it. I know a lot of times peoples opinions can differ and some won't like the others opinions but that dosent make them any less valid.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Everyone gives there opinions here that's what a lot of the board is made up of as well as some facts and personal experience thrown in with it. I know a lot of times peoples opinions can differ and some won't like the others opinions but that dosent make them any less valid.

No and I dont think mine are either and thats what you fail to see. If my opinion is facts arent being given thats my opinion so why are you questioning it or continuing to post about it

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

No and I dont think mine are either and thats what you fail to see. If my opinion is facts arent being given thats my opinion so why are you questioning it or continuing to post about it

Goodness.......

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by chachi

There have been no studies to indicate smaller yorkies have more health problems even from th bad breeders. I do agree that people should be careful when selecting a breeder but I dont agree with giving false unsubstantiated info

My guess is that bad breeders have far more health issues in their dogs than responsible breeders...no matter what size. Stands to reason that if you go on a hunt for a tiny yorkie, you are looking for major health issues....research or no research. Just common sense imho.

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Everyone gives there opinions here that's what a lot of the board is made up of as well as some facts and personal experience thrown in with it. I know a lot of times peoples opinions can differ and some won't like the others opinions but that dosent make them any less valid.

Sometimes that is the problem Everyone gives an OPINION with SOME FACTS and PERSONAL EXPERIENCE thrown in.
o·pin·ion əˈpinyən/ noun noun: opinion; plural noun: opinions
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
I know I have given my opinion many times based more on my emotional views based on my experiences up to that point which may not be the truth but might be my truth until I learn otherwise. I will listen to other people and their advice and opinions and then take my time to make my decision based on the knowledge I have and what I feel is best for me at that time. Sometimes it takes more than one thread for people to learn so reposting an opinion when the OP isn't open to listening is like beating your head against a wall.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

Sometimes that is the problem Everyone gives an OPINION with SOME FACTS and PERSONAL EXPERIENCE thrown in.
o·pin·ion əˈpinyən/ noun noun: opinion; plural noun: opinions
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
I know I have given my opinion many times based more on my emotional views based on my experiences up to that point which may not be the truth but might be my truth until I learn otherwise. I will listen to other people and their advice and opinions and then take my time to make my decision based on the knowledge I have and what I feel is best for me at that time. Sometimes it takes more than one thread for people to learn so reposting an opinion when the OP isn't open to listening is like beating your head against a wall.

I'm not sure I understand the bolded underlined part and how it pertains to this post? Maybe I'm missing something.....

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

Sometimes that is the problem Everyone gives an OPINION with SOME FACTS and PERSONAL EXPERIENCE thrown in.
o·pin·ion əˈpinyən/ noun noun: opinion; plural noun: opinions
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
I know I have given my opinion many times based more on my emotional views based on my experiences up to that point which may not be the truth but might be my truth until I learn otherwise. I will listen to other people and their advice and opinions and then take my time to make my decision based on the knowledge I have and what I feel is best for me at that time. Sometimes it takes more than one thread for people to learn so reposting an opinion when the OP isn't open to listening is like beating your head against a wall.

I don't agree totally. Reposting an opinion may not affect the person who started the thread, but there are SO many other people reading and maybe it is something that they can use. I repeat my opinions often with the hope that someone can use them....if not, that is their choice. I suppose I like beating my head against walls. LOL