When should I break it up?

[ilovejoel]

So when the dogs are playing and the puppy bites Joel too hard I know Joel needs to correct him on his own(he's real good at that lol) but the problem is Joel won't stop "correcting" him and keeps on going crazy at him snarling and nipping his face like he's really mad.
He did the same thing with Rosco, if Rosco stepped on his foot he would go crazy and wouldn't stop until you physically stop him.
I feel bad when I have to yell to stop him, I don't want him to think he can't do anything.
So my question is how do I let Joel know that he's allowed to correct him but not to go crazy at him?
Also when Joel is done getting him, his bottom jaw is always shaking almost like he doesn't mean to do it. It's like he goes in attack mode and can't stop.

[Yorkiemom1]

I have always used the command, "ENOUGH!!!"....I allow correction until I see submission by the youngster or the pup that is lower in the pecking order, but when the lesser/younger pup is clearly "giving up", I stop the "correction". I yell it loudly, firmly and will occasionally clap my hands to emphasize the behavior stops NOW!

[alaskayorkie]

I know a lot of people -- especially big dog owners -- say let the dogs work it out on their own. But I stopped doing that when it didn't work. And since my dogs are smaller than most of the ones they hang out with, I didn't want to take a chance of them getting hurt.

Eddie would go postal on other dogs when he thought it was his job to work it out. Oh, that worked, but it risked him hurting the other dog or the other dog fighting back. Jillie had better luck, but her method was to lay on her belly and freeze. It didn't seem fair to her.

Now I intervene whenever there's an issue. I just put my body between the dogs and let them know what they're doing is not allowed. It lets the other dog know they're not going to win, and, more importantly, it lets mine know that they don't have to solve the problem. I will.

Surprisingly, once I did that a few times, they stopped having problems. Instead of trying to solve it themselves, they just wait for me to take care of it.

I would only let a dog handle it themselves if they're good at it -- able to turn back the other dog with just a snarl and not a bite.

[ilovejoel]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I have always used the command, "ENOUGH!!!"....I allow correction until I see submission by the youngster or the pup that is lower in the pecking order, but when the lesser/younger pup is clearly "giving up", I stop the "correction". I yell it loudly, firmly and will occasionally clap my hands to emphasize the behavior stops NOW!

Thanks, I'll work on teaching him "enough".

Originally Posted by alaskayorkie

I know a lot of people -- especially big dog owners -- say let the dogs work it out on their own. But I stopped doing that when it didn't work. And since my dogs are smaller than most of the ones they hang out with, I didn't want to take a chance of them getting hurt.

Eddie would go postal on other dogs when he thought it was his job to work it out. Oh, that worked, but it risked him hurting the other dog or the other dog fighting back. Jillie had better luck, but her method was to lay on her belly and freeze. It didn't seem fair to her.

Now I intervene whenever there's an issue. I just put my body between the dogs and let them know what they're doing is not allowed. It lets the other dog know they're not going to win, and, more importantly, it lets mine know that they don't have to solve the problem. I will.

Surprisingly, once I did that a few times, they stopped having problems. Instead of trying to solve it themselves, they just wait for me to take care of it.

I would only let a dog handle it themselves if they're good at it -- able to turn back the other dog with just a snarl and not a bite.

Yeah I tried to let them work it out but he just wont stop even when the puppy is laying down whining, but the funny thing is is the puppy goes right back after him to bother him lol so I think Joel gets overly annoyed
but I guess I'll let Joel know I'll start taking care of it.

[Wylie's Mom]

Once it crosses a certain line that you've determined as inappropriate, I'd then step in and get them apart and say "okay, that's enough" or "all done" or even just "no". Help him learn that he can assert himself, but not endlessly.

Mike gave some great advice!

[kjc]

Originally Posted by alaskayorkie

I know a lot of people -- especially big dog owners -- say let the dogs work it out on their own. But I stopped doing that when it didn't work. And since my dogs are smaller than most of the ones they hang out with, I didn't want to take a chance of them getting hurt.

Eddie would go postal on other dogs when he thought it was his job to work it out. Oh, that worked, but it risked him hurting the other dog or the other dog fighting back. Jillie had better luck, but her method was to lay on her belly and freeze. It didn't seem fair to her.

Now I intervene whenever there's an issue. I just put my body between the dogs and let them know what they're doing is not allowed. It lets the other dog know they're not going to win, and, more importantly, it lets mine know that they don't have to solve the problem. I will.

Surprisingly, once I did that a few times, they stopped having problems. Instead of trying to solve it themselves, they just wait for me to take care of it.

I would only let a dog handle it themselves if they're good at it -- able to turn back the other dog with just a snarl and not a bite.

Excellent advice!

Joel is a terrier, and the puppy is... a puppy. Terriers hold grudges and seek payback. Puppies are idiots and just want to play, play, play.

You need to protect Joel from puppy silliness, and protect the puppy from Joel terrierism.

The 'lip quiver' is a sign of attack... mine do it when they see and seek birds and squirrels, I think it is actually a sign of adrenaline rush to the brain.

[Cherie6446]

I just want to say that I learn so much from reading these posts. Pups can be so annoying to older dogs. Zoey was like this at the dog park - getting into everyone's face. She got corrected by the dogs and finally learned to meet and greet nicely.

[Marhcarter]

Originally Posted by kjc

Excellent advice!

Joel is a terrier, and the puppy is... a puppy. Terriers hold grudges and seek payback. Puppies are idiots and just want to play, play, play.

You need to protect Joel from puppy silliness, and protect the puppy from Joel terrierism.

The 'lip quiver' is a sign of attack... mine do it when they see and seek birds and squirrels, I think it is actually a sign of adrenaline rush to the brain.

I love these descriptions! So visual, and so accurate!

[matese]

once upon a time I had 2 dogs, a 6 y/o poodle and a 3 y/o yorkie, both got along fine, my poodle was an angel, but so was my yorkie, both females, both not spayed, no pack leader. Then I got "the monster" poodle 6y/o yorkie 3 y/o I was on a 2 week vacation, I know better NOT TO GO INTO PET SHOPS THAT HAVE DOGS, SPECIALLY YORKIES, but I was with my cousin that JUST WANTED TO LOOK, well SHE LOOKED and I BOUGHT another yorkie, I did this because, this lil girl was hovering in the corner of the cage, her sister was bouncing around the cage saying take me, take me, I know it is advised to get the bouncing frisky baby, but seeing this frightened wee lil baby hovering in the corner, I knew NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY THAT BABY, my fear was if not purchased it would be put down, at the time I saw these 2 pups I didn't know what sex they were, so I asked the shop worker (I know your not supposed to buy from pet shops, but this one had a very good reputation in selling healthy dogs and a good return policy if your vet found anything wrong with the pup) what sex was of the one in the corner, I am told they are sisters, I ask may I see the one in the corner, I am given this lil fur ball that fit in the palm of my hand, I tell the worker write her up, she's coming home with me. My 2 other babies were not aggressive dogs, so there was no concern or fear they would harm a new baby. So home I come with "the monster" my cousin was holding "the angel" on the trip home. When I got in my house and put this lil "car angel" on the floor, all hell broke loose, the "car angel" CHARGED my 2 surprised babies, the yorkie jumped on the sofa, said WTF, while my poodle introduced her self to the puppy. Life as we knew it was over, well life as my 2 older dogs knew it was over. This pup TRIED to take over, her & the poodle were friends, the yorkie lived her life on the sofa. Two weeks after I had her (my poodle had a habit of hiding her milk bones in the corner of the love seat, if the older yorkie went near that corner the poodle would jump on the love seat and grab her milk bone) I was sitting on the love seat brushing the puppy, was finished with the brushing and off my lap went the puppy, and she headed right to that corner, my poodle jumped up and grabbed her milk bone and the puppy bite the poodle on the nose, my poodle did nothing, just jumped off the love seat bleeding. I took care on the bite. That friendship ended with that bite. The puppy was now the alpha dog, well she thought she was, she was always after the poodle, would bite her when ever she had the chance, I would scold the puppy, my poodle would never go back at the puppy, I ALWAYS STEPPED IN showed the puppy I WAS THE ALPHA lol, I WAS THE PACK LEADER, when the puppy would bite the poodle I would tell the pup in a VERY FIRM VOICE "no bite, kiss sister" and the puppy would go and lick the poodle, after 2 months of this the puppy would bite the poodle then run back and lick her lol, this puppy was so cute and funny, she was such a lil clown, she was always my favorite because she was so spunky. I was always so glad I bought her. She was shy with ppl, I had to watch she did not bite them but was great with all dogs, when she got to know a person she was your best friend. So what I am trying to get at is, I never let the dogs work it out, I always did, the biting of the poodle stopped when the pup was about 9 mos.old, there was no more friendship there, the poodle kept away from the pup. When the puppy was able to jump on the sofa my older yorkie had no choice but to accept being pounced on ,it ended up the older yorkie treated the puppy like it was her baby, she would clean her, lick up her face, there was never any aggressive behavior between the older yorkie and the puppy. The puppy learned where her place in the pecking order was, because I WAS THE ALPHA DOG lol. end of story lol

[gemy]

Well actually as a big dog owner the "work it out on their own" is on a very short tether or lead. By that I mean, two 100 lb or more brutes can do incredible damage to one another in a short time frame. Ideally you train your large breed dog from a puppy to socialize correctly with both the wee ones, and the big ones. I would let the big dog discipline the puppy, so that pup knows what is or is not accepted. I would always step in when I read body language signalling serious intent on the elders part.

But someone has a very succinct and accurate piece of advise, that being You Step in, when the inter-actions go beyond what is acceptable to you.

I am in the throes of having a 3mth old large breed puppy, to socialize and train her to our home of one senior very large male, and one adult male Yorkie. And she is a dominant mouthy gal. I now always interfere with her desire to chase Razzle, to mouth on Razzle's head (he is the YOrkie), but I am also on her case as she is now starting to jump up into Magic's (the big males) face/beard. Meaning I correct always and immediately. Sometimes with a body block, sometimes with a push away, always coupled with a strong and stern No.

This is a different breed to Yorkies, but the principles are the same.

[kjc]

Note: The 'Puppy' here is an Akita, Joel is a young adult Yorkie.

[gemy]

Then it is even more important for Joel the Yorkie to be stopped after a correction of his is done with the AKita puppy.

There is and will be a dance of dominance going on. And quite frankly I feel that once the Akita grows into its own, and most especially as it is a male to male relationship, Joel will not be Alpha at all, despite how much he feels he should be.

What I do try to engender is respect to each other, and if you don't respect your pack mates, I will step in quickly, fairly, and consistently. You all need to behave to my commands always!

You all are in my home, and it is my Rules that hold sway. I know that sounds very dictatorial, but it is how I feel.

[Maximo]

When my boys get out of hand wrestling, I raise my voice and say "Settle down." Often I redirect them to something more constructive like doing a few tricks for kibble.

Every once in awhile, the boys get really out of hand, and that is when I really raise my voice "Nooooo!" and get in between them.

I had no experience with 2 dogs interacting, and Mike (alaskayorkie) was very helpful in that department.

[ilovejoel]

Thanks for the great tips everyone I'm gonna work with Joel to stop after one correction, and somehow teach Dixon to stop biting Joel(he loves to chomp on Joels stubby little tail lol)

[nanahas3]

I agree with the others about the correction and letting them know aggression is not allowed. Especially since the akita is going to grow into a much larger dog you could see this turn ugly. When we got Kyra, Laddy didn't like her at all and anytime she got near him he would start with a low growl. That was when I stepped in. I did not allow it to escalate to the point of nipping at each other. They are the very best of friends now.