Please enlighten on neutering?

[jbarile]

I need help with your opinons in reference to neutering? What are the pro's and the con's? I have heard so many horror stories with the little tongues being cut to they didn't recover from the gas? I am having problems with Sami & Ted lifting their leg just about everywhere and It is very upsetting I am having to wash my bedding everyday! and the bottom of my chair has urine stains on the skirt! I recently just ordered the Zero odor Pet & stain remover and before I use it I was wondering if neutering is effective with this problem? The belly bands are only effective when in the house but they have a doggy door, and even when they have the bands it doesn't seem to matter on or off they are driving me crazy with this problem! Ted (Chi) will run when I catch him! and knows he has done wrong! Sami Im not sure about him He gets caught and just looks at me little head turns side to side with that look "what did I do" he really does act like he has done nothing wrong?? or he is mentally challenged? I had planned on breeding him but their isn't any little ladies in my area My groomer has made attempts in asking me to breed him with a POO! But No I am not interested!
So I ask for your advice and opinions or experiences to help me make the right decision for both Sami & Ted, as your assisitance will help me to decide to make an appointment for them both! another question?? would it be best should I make the appointments to take sami, Ted at the same time or one after the other?

[JPop's Mom]

I would welcome comments on this myself. I would love to breed mine, but this leg lifting thing is driving me crazy! My little one, 8 mos., is going to be bred with my daughter's little girl, Kitti, who is 2 yrs. We'll do this close to the end of this year and then he will be neutered. My 2 yr old litte man is having problems finding a lady. My hubby really wants an off-spring from him......but jeez, the peeing is getting to me. I have tried the "pee poles" and they help, but we still have a problem.

[chachi]

I got my dogs spay/neutered at the same time and was glad I did. They had the same down time so one wasnt wanting to play rough with the other. I didnt have any incidents with the suregeries and both of my dogs did just fine. If I were having the problems you are having I definitely would do it. There are also health benefits to having it done.

[Lorraine]

These are dogs. Intact males or females will mark territory out of instinctual behaviour, nothing to do with housebreaking problems. They are a nuisance in a pet home and this is why it is a good idea to spay/neuter. Also, you run the risk of other health problems. In males, they can end up with testicle cancers, prostate gland cancer, urinary infections/cancers and believe it or not, rectal cancers. In females, left intact, you run the risk of pyometria (infection of the uterus which can be lethal) mammary tumours, uterine tumours and or cancers. I have seen these in younger dogs under 5 years old as well as older dogs that were left intact.
You also run the risk of your two males starting to fight with each if they get the whiff of a female in heat anywhere within blocks radius. If they get into a fight and you aren't right there, they can seriously injure each other or one can get killed. You can't argue instincts and you would be surprised at how viscious a toy dog can be when instincts kick in.
For spaying/neutering, choose a vet that is experienced with toy dogs so they know what they are doing with the anesthesia. They should be using Isoflurine gas to put them under. I very small amount of presedative is used but the Vet must know toy breeds to know how much. For extra caution, if you wish, you can ask they be hooked up to an IV during the procedure. This will often cause less trauma during sedation and will give a ready line if other measures are required during the surgery.
Neutering is not complicated and at the same time you can have the teeth checked for retained baby teeth and if they require cleaning that can be done a the same time.
Lorraine

[sneri13]

I had Mac & Mellie neutered and spayed at the same time. My vet specializes in small/toy breeds and I had absolutely no problems. One of Mac's testicals was not desended and in his abdomen so he had to have a more invasive surgery. They were allowed to stay in the same crate overnight so they would not be lonely and my vet is staffed 24 hrs so I was not worried about them be left alone. They also had any remaining baby teeth removed. Mac stopped marking immediately. For health reasons I am very glad I had them both "fixed".

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

You will get lots of advice from people who feel that neutering is the ONLY option, so I will only address reasons I believe this surgery should not be routinely performed and rather only done when it is in the dog's best interests. Here is a list of the Possible Health Repercussions from Neutering from www.neutering.org:

Possible Health Effects of Neutering
Anesthesia shock and surgical complications (Dogs and Bitches)
Post operative pain and infection (Dogs and Bitches)
Obesity (Dogs and Bitches)
Hypothyroidism (Dogs and Bitches)
Cerebellar Cortical Abiotrophy (Dogs and Bitches)
Loss of estrogen; sex and growth hormone (Bitches)
Intervertebral disk disease (Bitches)
Myasthenia Gravis; muscle weakness (Bitches)
Urinary incontinence (Bitches)
Altered moods leading to nervousness, separation anxiety, and digestive disorders (Bitches)
Vaginal perivulvar dermatitis and recessed vulva (Bitches)
Loss of testosterone; sex and growth hormone (Dogs)
Narrowing of the chest resulting in respiratory disorders (Dogs)
Failure to extrude the penis (Dogs)
Loss of testosterone is directly correlated to: heart disease and myocardial infarction, strokes and cardiovascular disease, senile dementia, osteoporosis and hip fracture.

In human beings testosterone has an important role in the regulation of normal growth, bone metabolism and body composition. Specifically, testosterone deficiency is an important risk factor for osteoporosis and fractures in men. Men with testosterone deficiency have significant decreases in bone density, particularly in the trabecular bone compartment. Testosterone deficiency has been reported in over half of elderly men with a history of hip fracture. Men with testosterone deficiency also have alterations in body composition that include an increase in body fat. Using quantitative CT scans to assess fat distribution, we have shown that testosterone deficiency is associated with an alteration in site-specific adipose deposition with increased deposits in all areas, particularly in the subcutaneous and muscle areas.

Because truncal fat correlates with glucose intolerance and cardiovascular risk, hypogonadism may have important implications with regard to overall health and mortality. In one study, the alteration in skeletal muscle composition was associated with a decrease in muscle strength. Therefore, testosterone deficiency is associated with an enhanced risk for osteoporosis, altered body composition including increases in truncal fat, and, possibly, decreases in muscle performance.

Loss of estrogen leads to an acceleration of the bone-degradation process, which in turn results in a loss of bone mass and a raised risk for incurring bone fractures (osteoporosis). Loss of this hormone also causes violent mood swings, irritability, and depression.

In human beings, a drop in the production of sexual hormones can have considerable consequences for the emotional world of women. Many menopausal women observe a reduction of their general performance, an increasing forgetfulness, an impaired fine motoricity, and a diminution in their powers of memory and of planned, targeted, flexible and adaptable thought. Furthermore, many women display a tendency towards pronounced fluctuations in their mood, and even massive symptoms of depression. Very recent studies indicate that estrogen deficiency also increases the risk for Alzheimer's disease.

The process of aging and the regression of the sexual hormones also involves a degradation of the muscle mass. This results in a deterioration of the coordination of body movements and enhances the tendency for falls. The elasticity of the joints also diminishes. The joints become stiff and painful, especially upon rising in the morning. This is due to the reduction in the production of collagen and a reduced storage of water as a consequence of the estrogen deficiency

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Neutering does not stop a dog from "marking" or lifting his leg in the house. Hefner came to me already neutered and he goes on the wee wee pads "most of the time". Buddha, my daughter's dog was neutered at 7 months and he marks everywhere in the house. We keep bellybands on him.

THere are other options to a full on neuter which include a procedure similar to a vesectomy for men. There is also a procedure that is new I believe where they do injections in the testicles and no surgry is necessary. I am by no means an expert about any of this and, sadly, most vets won't even tell you there are other options because they are most comfortable with a full blown neuter.

[Nikko's_human]

Wow, SoCalyorkiLvr you have given me lots to think about. I have been wrestling with the neuter debate and still haven't decided what to do with Nikko. He is very happy and active and I am afraid neutering him will alter his personality. He is 8 months old and still squats to pee and hasn't learned how to lift his leg yet. I was told if he were to be neutered now, he would never learn to lift his leg. Is this true? I am still confused about this but am leaning towards not having him neutered because I am afraid of putting him under.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

I am just trying to encourage people to do their research and look at the entire picture. Some dogs are better off being neutered (by the way, the term "neuter" applies to both male and female despite the commonly held belief that neutering is the procedure for males and spaying is what it is called for females. Spaying only applies to females but neutering applies to both...just a little trivia) I just feel everyone should be informed and make an educated decision that is in their dogs' best interests. Each pet owner has to weigh the risks with the benefits and decide what is best in their siuation.

Here is what neutering .org says about why people neuter....

Why People Neuter

It's the "right thing"

Whenever a special interest group wants a certain something they spread propaganda designed to promote it. There's no difference in the animal companion community. The fact is that there are a lot of domestic animals put to death because people can't cope with all of them. This is the big guilt trip this propaganda is designed to inspire and it is used to push people into spaying and castrating their companion animals.

What about the millions of animals killed as food, most of whom have dramatically worse living conditions than a superfluous dog or cat? These animals are sentient too... meaning they have emotions and feel the things human beings subject them to. Killing for food is, however, a natural process that Nature demands of many beings, especially predators, so I'll not question the act of killing for food... although tormenting an animal to death IS evil... and people do this a lot in industrialized ranching. Killing an animal for no reason other than because the creature is superfluous and because killing is convenient is not civilized in my opinion. This is evidenced by the fact that civilized people don't kill each other this way or for similar reasons... we don't round up our transients and hungry multitudes and kill them. People have an "it's just a dog" mentality... people put their own kind above all other living things and justify their acts by contrived philosophy and religious dogma. This is done regardless of what an animal being may think or feel and without any respect for how they want to live just as much as we do.

So the right thing, it is said, is to keep animals from reproducing, and the easy solution to this is to surgically alter them so they can't reproduce. This may be justified, but neutering is just one way of achieving this goal. Neutering is an invasive procedure that drastically affects an animal's biological processes. There are alternatives to this from as simple as proper containment to tubal ligation and vasectomy. These are much less invasive and respectful, but the problem is that people are brainwashed into this "be a responsible pet owner, have you dog or cat spayed or neutered" paradigm... and because veterinarians make so much profit from these procedures, they rarely suggest the alternatives - or even explain the risks.

Health Concerns

This is a very valid issue. There may be evidence to support improved longevity and health associated with neutering. I won't disrespect those who neuter for this reason. I will say that I personally do not trust the source of this data due to the bias of those who provide it. I have NEVER seen an unbiased study where there was proper scientific methods implemented to show altered verses non-altered canines over a lifetime period with records showing the actual health consequences of each group. Without such an unbiased report I must conclude, being an acute observer of human nature, the facts commonly made public are the propaganda of Neuter Nazis to support and justify their politics.

In short, I don't trust them to tell the truth. I have a thirteen year old Dog who is intact and is the picture of health and happiness. I think ANY animal can get sick and ALL will eventually suffer the effects old age unless they meet a fateful early end. Face it... Nature wants us dead... that's where life leads us all. I had rather put my trust in the fact that life developed over millions and millions of years of trial and error and that this is as good as it gets. Seeing what human interference has wrought upon our earth I simply do not trust the wisdom, or lack of it, to surgically edit such a wondrous creation.

Pressure

People are pressured into neutering their companion animals for many reasons: ● Animal rights groups and radical anti-breeding groups. ● Breeders who want to have more control over where people can acquire animal companions. ● An increasing number of landlord/tenant policies and municipal ordinances, which should have nothing to do with personal choice.

I've seen a movement for mandatory neuter law... this is nothing less than fascism!

There's a tendency for people who choose NOT to sexually mutilate their companion animals to be looked down upon and I've even been insulted and declared irresponsible because I refuse to go with this flow. This pressures a lot of people into neutering without fully understanding that they are surgically altering another living being permanently and taking away the creatures sex. There are alternatives, but they aren't even discussed. To me this too is a form of pressure toward neutering. In my opinion all these things combined is an attitude toward the forced neutering of companion animals... a big brother attitude... and unless we resist this paradigm there may, indeed, be written more laws telling us what we can and can't do with our animals.

Modified behavior

This is often a big selling point for neutering: A neutered animal will be easier to control, wont rove, wont enter heat (estrus), wont mark, will be less aggressive, will smell better, and etc. Some of these things may indeed be true, and for a lot of people they are good reasons to sexually mutilate their "pets."

I regard these reasons as selfish acts of laziness and vanity, however. When someone desires to carve another being into what they want them to be, what I see is a control freak... I see someone who can't love another for who they are... I see someone who must change another to suit themselves. I consider people who would cut into someone they call a friend and tear the flesh and sex out of their bodies, for this reason, a vandal who wants a slave... a servile plaything to show off to their friends and to make up for something they lack in themselves. These are, of course, my personal opinions and a lot of folks will take exception to them.

Also, in my opinion, someone who wants a servile plaything puppet sown to their whim and specification would do better to get a plushie (a stuffed toy animal), rather than subjecting a living being to suffer the knife for their vanity and lack of ability to love and care for the whole living being.

Could there be a conspiracy?

From the way Neuter is pushed as the ONLY responsible way to control domestic animal overpopulation, I sometimes feel there's some kind of conspiracy in the works. Veterinarians can perform tubal ligation of vasectomy, which are less invasive techniques than neuter, and which allow the production of estrogen and testosterone, thus allowing an animal's normal urges and development, however few of them offer this alternative. I also wonder if breeders haven't been responsible for so much of this push to neuter every canine that moves in order to create a market for their puppy-milled stock. Just some things to think about from one who has found that human beings don't always reveal the ulterior motives behind their actions

[YorkieRini]

Like Lorraine said, proper anesthetic is important. My vet now uses Sevoflourane which is what's use on humans. The difference between Sevo and Iso is that they wake up quicker with the Sevo...

Here's a great article that compares to two.Maybe print it off and take to your vet to ensure they use one of these gases.

http://www.surgivet.com/smart/archives/Isoflurane%20vs%20Sevoflurane.pdf#search='isoflura ne%20sevoflurane%20anesthetic%20for%20dogs'

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Here is a short explanation of some alternatives from www.neutering.org

Vasectomy and tubal ligation

Vasectomy is a low-invasive surgical procedure whereby the Dog is sterilized without depriving him of testosterone and avoiding possible side effects associated with the loss of this hormone. Vasectomy involves the surgical removal of part of each vas deferens and is a fairly simple procedure.

Tubal ligation is a low-invasive surgical procedure whereby the Bitch is sterilized without depriving her of estrogen and avoiding possible side effects associated with the loss of this hormone. Tubal ligation means, literally, to tie up a small tube within the Bitch. This too is a much less dramatic procedure than neuter. Ask your vet about cutting the tubes instead of clamping them, for clamps have been known to come undone.

Veterinarians tend to shy from vasectomy and tubal ligation surgeries because they do not eliminate production of testosterone and estrogens. Because of this their idea of what a canine animal should behave like is not realized by the human companion. This should not be the vet's decision however - they are not his or her concern so long as you make an informed choice. If you are prepared to live with canines the way nature intended them... if you can love and care for the whole animal... then it's no ones business but your own. You should look around until you find a health care professional who will respect this position. I personally prefer NOT allowing control freaks to cut into my best friends.

[YorkieRini]

From the other perspective supporting s/n. I talked extensively with my vet that does early s/n on puppies at my clinic. She was participated in researching what happens if you s/n your pet early. It was determined that there were NO changes in behavior, or other changes hormonal changes that are mentioned. All theories were proven to not be true! I found this very interesting. She does early s/n on pups as early as 12 wks of age. The study she participated in was conducted at Ohio State with is one the leading Veternary Schools.

Since I have my puppies s/n before they leave I was very happy to hear that. So, of course I do suggest getting all pets s/n. The earlier the better.

Good luck!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by YorkieRini

Like Lorraine said, proper anesthetic is important. My vet now uses Sevoflourane which is what's use on humans. The difference between Sevo and Iso is that they wake up quicker with the Sevo...

Here's a great article that compares to two.Maybe print it off and take to your vet to ensure they use one of these gases.

http://www.surgivet.com/smart/archives/Isoflurane%20vs%20Sevoflurane.pdf#search='isoflura ne%20sevoflurane%20anesthetic%20for%20dogs'

Also, anytime you are going to have your baby put "under" make sure you use a vet who does not "cut corners". There are some who offer low cost neutering but they try to do it all themselves, without an assistant for example. It is imperative for the safety of your pet that there be at least two people...one to perform the surgery and one to monitor the vitals and the anesthesia.

I would ask for a tour of the operating room and ask them to describe the equipment and make sure it is state of the art. This is no time to "save money" or cut costs. This is the life of your furbaby.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by YorkieRini

From the other perspective supporting s/n. I talked extensively with my vet that does early s/n on puppies at my clinic. She was participated in researching what happens if you s/n your pet early. It was determined that there were NO changes in behavior, or other changes hormonal changes that are mentioned. All theories were proven to not be true! I found this very interesting. She does early s/n on pups as early as 12 wks of age. The study she participated in was conducted at Ohio State with is one the leading Veternary Schools.

Since I have my puppies s/n before they leave I was very happy to hear that. So, of course I do suggest getting all pets s/n. The earlier the better.

Good luck!

Not to be argumentative, but in support of my never ending search for knowledge, I would be very interested in reading that study. Do you have a citation for it?

It doesn't make logical sense that what you say could possible be true since we know how very important the reproductive organs are for regulating hormones and other organs throughout the body and how humans who lose their reproductive organs usually go on medication to take the place of those lost hormones.

I would assume it would be the same for all living creatures.

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Not to be argumentative, but in support of my never ending search for knowledge, I would be very interested in reading that study. Do you have a citation for it?

It doesn't make logical sense that what you say could possible be true since we know how very important the reproductive organs are for regulating hormones and other organs throughout the body and how humans who lose their reproductive organs usually go on medication to take the place of those lost hormones.

I would assume it would be the same for all living creatures.

I was thinking I wish I got something from her. Mind you we were discussing this at 2am...lolol. After Dreamy's section. I'll see if she can give me some info that I can post regarding the findings on her study.

She was very clear in stating the studies were extensive. She did it because she was getting into the early s/n on puppies and wanted to be educated of course on all the aspects. That's what she said, those therories..ALL of them are not accurate!..Again, I'll see if I can get some of the details on the study to share. You can always call my clinic. and ask to speak to her.lololol.

No prob..this is a healthy debate!