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Old 09-28-2013, 04:42 AM   #1
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Default help with madam barksalot and bitesyourankles

We got Anna from a shelter in May. She was a retired breeding dog who had spent the majority of her 6 years in a cage as a breeding machine. She's not very well socialized. She is very loyal and protective of me and her bond with my husband is growing, but she is just down right nasty to my 19 year old son. He moved out in August for college. He comes home on the weekends for his job. She barks non stop at him and nips at his ankles anytime he walks through the house. He deals with it ok. But I can tell that it bothers him. It would bother me too. I am not sure what to do. She does this with all of our guests. However, most guests are not here more than a few hours so we can put her in the bedroom until they leave. The vet has given her anxiety meds but when she's wound up they do not do anything for her. I have tried turning my back on her and scolding her sharply. I would appreciate any advice. Is it too late to change this behavior?
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:47 AM   #2
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Have your son be the bearer of tasty treats at all times. She will eventually associate him with tasty treats = person I like.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:24 AM   #3
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Have your son be the bearer of tasty treats at all times. She will eventually associate him with tasty treats = person I like.
Thanks for the suggestion. She does love to eat. He gives her food when he's eating (something I'm not fond of but understand his motive). But if he's not eating, she still hates him. Maybe I will have him make more of an effort to be the one who feeds her when he's home. He thinks it's wonderful that she is protective, but I feel bad that he gets bitten every time he walks through the house.
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:01 AM   #4
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I would suggest he takes her for a walk. Even sleep in his room while his there. If he really wants a relationship with her even clicker train her.

On your part I would suggest training her not to bite. To sit, stay and quiet command.
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Old 09-29-2013, 01:48 AM   #5
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Have your son be the bearer of tasty treats at all times. She will eventually associate him with tasty treats = person I like.
We tried this for 2 years with our 26 yr old son & Stanley.... didn't work for us. Stan would take the treat then bite my sons ankles when he moved! Our in-home trainer solved it in 20 minutes! She told us to keep a light leash on Stanley in the house whenever we're awake. My son steps on it when he comes in, and Stanley doesn't bite because he knows he can't "hit & run" lol! My son then casually greets him, & goes about his business. No more barking or biting! We think our trainer is a miracle worker! Hope this helps you.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:23 AM   #6
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Her are some ideas to consider, tweak and use as you see fit. She doesn't trust humans so working with her to train her daily and establish a habit of her learning to perform tasks you teach her for a reward/positive response is usually the best way to start to tame a dog so scared they bark and bite, thinking the best defense is a good offense. Dogs that bark and bite are usually just trying to keep people away as they are so anxious around them it's better to just stay lonely. You can work to change that in time using a program to rehab the dog into trusting and enjoying people.

By working to teach her small, simple commands of obedience such as sit, stay, lie down, stop, leave it, bark/quiet, turn around, back up, sit up and beg, you are forming a bond of working trust and wiring your dog's brain to do automatically do what you say. Any of the good obedience trainers online will show you how to teach the basics. Find one on YouTube that is a positive-reward program that doesn't punish or use aversives as a dog like this can just freeze up in fear if she's sprayed in the face with water or some citronella or something. Establish a short session at least twice a day so she can rely on it. Dogs LOVE knowing when they are going to have training and can rely on that part of the day all to themselves and you working one-on-one.

Getting her busy in interactive games and challenges such as walking around teaching her how to sniff out hidden treats or toys about the house is fun for dogs and teaches them to stay focused at a task for a reward and your good pleasure. It gives them a job to do and most dogs love it and will beg to get you to hide treats/toys thereafter so they can "seek". Also hiding a treat under one of 3 upside down plastic cups for the dog to turn over for the treat is lots of fun and challenges the dog to learn to use his nose to sniff out the real treat and not just the scent of a former treat on the edge of a cup. They love the surprise of finding the real treat wherever it is. Over time they get very good at this and just love the challenge and your reactions of pleasure over their cleverness.

Walks and agility will further help build a working bond and enrich the dog's life and make her see that humans are fun, trustworthy and want to help them enjoy life, not just breed and cause them troubles.

Now, once you teach the dog "Leave it" and have taught her to respond to automatically respond to you and enriched her life to that she doesn't have so much time to worry and obsess and her mind/body are less badly wired, you can watch her body attitude when a person she is afraid of or anxious about - which is likely most people other than you - approaches. If she alerts and begins to focus in on that person, a simple "Leave it" can get the message to her to turn away, back off and calm down, control the impulse she's just had. You will more successfully be able to use the term "No" when you see her begin to alert on someone she's not happy around and back her off of them with it. If she persists, stand up and walk toward her making eye contact and walking into her from the front to back her down until she turns away or leaves the area or otherwise submits to let her know you will enforce the "No" or "Leave it" once she's well-learned them but isn't appropriately responding. This is how alpha dogs usually discipline pack members - using the old, stern eye-contact and a good back-off until the other dog submits.

Teaching the bark/quiet commands will help you have more control of her also, but any command taught to a dog like this has to be part of a whole program to gain control of the dog, teaching it to trust again, teach it how to control its impulses, teach it the fun of working with and bonding with and performing for the happiness and rewards of a human and within that framework, even formerly profoundly mentally and physically abused dogs will blossom and start to respond, want to learn how to please you and become your full partner. But it takes a program of training, exercise, challenges/games and life-enrichment to reach and rehab a dog like this most successfully. In time these kind of dogs can truly know how to love people they once mistrusted and feared. No simple quick-fixes are likely to reach her for long.

Dropping treats for your college son to do is another trick to use to help associate someone with good things happening in a dog's mind. You want her to begin to see him as causing good things to happen when he's around. Treats and giving food are like love poems and sweet nothings to dogs! Have your son pick up a bag of chicken pieces you've left by the front door on the porch when he comes in and just drop the occas. chicken treat when he's walking around through the house while he's around. Think of it as therapy for a poor dog with a very troubled and likely cloistered, unhappy past, a dog who is likely very basically frightened of people, perhaps men in particular. She's had her problems in the past and just like a troubled person needs some treatment that may seem like too much trouble or silly but I promise you it will help her eventually and after all, a girl who has been through all she has in the past, needs some TLC.

But your son could most help her by after a while just lying down on the floor in the room she's in and doing nothing but dispensing the odd chicken treat around himself, on his chest and tossing some toward her, not making eye contact or attempting to pet her. Just lying there making himself lower than her level and being non-threatening and occasionally tossing, placing treats around for her edification and enjoyment. A few sessions like this - if he'll truly just leave her be during them - not try to interact with her and stay aloof from her - should teach her he's good, to be trusted and someone to start to approach and befriend on her own terms.

Perhaps she'll just put her head under his hand or stand next to him but those are important signals that she's beginning to accept him but he should still stay aloof, make her work for any attention she gets and give little of it to keep from spooking her at first. In time, he should then be able to pet, cuddle and walk about normally. In time, they can become very good friends using these techniques correctly.

Taking the time to work with her in all of these areas will bring you a happy, healthy and enjoyable pet if you work patiently and persistently at it and keep it gentle, loving and fun.
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Last edited by yorkietalkjilly; 09-29-2013 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 09-29-2013, 05:43 AM   #7
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Well, Tibbe and Joel (and Misa Minnie, gotta say...) seem to be the best trained "trick" dogs I have seen on this site so any advice from Jeanne or Rachel should be heeded!
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:11 AM   #8
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We tried this for 2 years with our 26 yr old son & Stanley.... didn't work for us. Stan would take the treat then bite my sons ankles when he moved! Our in-home trainer solved it in 20 minutes! She told us to keep a light leash on Stanley in the house whenever we're awake. My son steps on it when he comes in, and Stanley doesn't bite because he knows he can't "hit & run" lol! My son then casually greets him, & goes about his business. No more barking or biting! We think our trainer is a miracle worker! Hope this helps you.
I just wanted to add that my son DOES NOT force interaction with Stanley. Now that his "hit & run" behavior has been interrupted, he is starting to relax and respond to my son. He actually came when my son called him yesterday!

I don't consider the leash training to be a "quick fix". It has simply made Stan realize that his "hit & run" is no longer working, but that he is still OK.
Stan has a long way to go, and I agree wholeheartedly that continued training is needed. It is just amazing to see the progress he has made now that his "hit & run" behavior doesn't work for him any more. He is gradually becoming more open to training. It's wonderful to see how much happier & more confident he is becoming.
The leash training was not a "quick fix". It was just enough to snap him out of a very negative behavior so that he could start to learn to trust. I'm just sorry I didn't try it two years ago lol!
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:40 AM   #9
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I just wanted to add that my son DOES NOT force interaction with Stanley. Now that his "hit & run" behavior has been interrupted, he is starting to relax and respond to my son. He actually came when my son called him yesterday!

I don't consider the leash training to be a "quick fix". It has simply made Stan realize that his "hit & run" is no longer working, but that he is still OK.
Stan has a long way to go, and I agree wholeheartedly that continued training is needed. It is just amazing to see the progress he has made now that his "hit & run" behavior doesn't work for him any more. He is gradually becoming more open to training. It's wonderful to see how much happier & more confident he is becoming.
The leash training was not a "quick fix". It was just enough to snap him out of a very negative behavior so that he could start to learn to trust. I'm just sorry I didn't try it two years ago lol!
Oh, Lori, I wasn't referring to your post - I hadn't even read any posts but the OP's early this a.m. when I posted. I often use the term "quick-fix" regarding this or that thing that sometimes someone will recommend with a dog with larger issues and a frustrated owner might fixate on using that as an easy answer to a bigger problem that really takes a multi-prong approach to bring about a long-term resolution. I'm so tired of seeing those dog trainers that have websites with a quick-fix for this or that problem as if that is just the answer no matter what all is going on with the dog. Like for a barking dog, they recommend spraying it with water - not even taking into consideration what some dogs have been through in life & how profoundly anxious and cowed some dogs are. Yet that's their quick fix: spray the dog in the face for excessive barking. A paragraph and move on! Ugh! That's what I'm hoping to end are those quick-fix website answers.

I absolutely love to hear quick-fixes myself because they can be incorporated in to work for this dog or another dog out there with a similar problem and they usually work when used correctly, just as they did with your baby!

But I do try to get folks with dogs with likely chronic problems such as in rescue dogs not to fixate on any one quickie and expect just that to solve their larger issue of a fearful, anxious, non-trusting dog. I have seen OP's on YT who have dogs with real issues just repeatedly sometimes and even after they have had good advice from many about the several things they need to do and areas of concern to work on, still on a thread almost begging for anything quick that will work just like a charm, when obviously they have a big problem that they sometimes seem to refuse to see.

It sounds like your leash thing might, indeed, work out here, too, once trust has been established with the son and visitors to the home. I've often used a leash with a dog with an attitude once I know the dog has long ago overcome trust, anxiety and fear issues but was just challenging me for that last bit of control should I relax a bit. I don't rely a lot on a leash for too long in the house because I want the dog to see me, my eyes and my voice as the control ultimately but a leash or things like that can be a useful tool for a while to make a point and they sure work wonders when used in just the right way for a while as you and your son did! That's the great thing about dog training, there are many ways to get there and what works for you and your dog is the best thing to go with every time.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:51 AM   #10
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[QUOTE=yorkietalkjilly;4324156]Oh, Lori, I wasn't referring to your post - I hadn't even read any posts but the OP's early this a.m. when I posted. I often use the term "quick-fix" regarding this or that thing that sometimes someone will recommend with a dog with larger issues and a frustrated owner might fixate on using that as an easy answer to a bigger problem that really takes a multi-prong approach to bring about a long-term resolution. I'm so tired of seeing those dog trainers that have websites with a quick-fix for this or that problem as if that is just the answer no matter what all is going on with the dog. Like for a barking dog, they recommend spraying it with water - not even taking into consideration what some dogs have been through in life & how profoundly anxious and cowed some dogs are. Yet that's their quick fix: spray the dog in the face for excessive barking. A paragraph and move on! Ugh! That's what I'm hoping to end are those quick-fix website answers.

I absolutely love to hear quick-fixes myself because they can be incorporated in to work for this dog or another dog out there with a similar problem and they usually work when used correctly, just as they did with your baby!

But I do try to get folks with dogs with likely chronic problems such as in rescue dogs not to fixate on any one quickie and expect just that to solve their larger issue of a fearful, anxious, non-trusting dog. I have seen OP's on YT who have dogs with real issues just repeatedly sometimes and even after they have had good advice from many about the several things they need to do and areas of concern to work on, still on a thread almost begging for anything quick that will work just like a charm, when obviously they have a big problem that they sometimes seem to refuse to see.

It sounds like your leash thing might, indeed, work out here, too, once trust has been established with the son and visitors to the home. I've often used a leash with a dog with an attitude once I know the dog has long ago overcome trust, anxiety and fear issues but was just challenging me for that last bit of control should I relax a bit. I don't rely a lot on a leash for too long in the house because I want the dog to see me, my eyes and my voice as the control ultimately but a leash or things like that can be a useful tool for a while to make a point and they sure work wonders when used in just the right way for a while as you and your son did! That's the great thing about dog training, there are many ways to get there and what works for you and your dog is the best thing to go with every time.[/QUOTE

Jeannie, no offense taken. I always respect your advice & opinion. I mainly wanted to point out how important it is that my son never FORCES contact. After re reading my first post & then yours, I didn't think that was clear.
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:09 AM   #11
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I had a long post this morning to respond before church but evidently I did something wrong and it's not here. Thanks for everyone who took time to provide suggestions. I am hoping yorkietalkjilly's idea works. The idea of having Anna find food will be great for her. She has an amazing sniffer. I explained the concept to my son. He said he will try. I will start working with her this afternoon on the sniff and find game. After he leaves this evening, we'll have a whole week to work on it before he's home again. I have actually tried training her with basics such as sit. She has not been very responsive so far. But I will continue to try. I truly appreciate the ideas. We live in a rural area. I don't think having a trainer come to our house is an option.
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Old 09-29-2013, 02:58 PM   #12
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I have somewhat of a similar situation. Teddy is our rescue Yorkie we adopted in August. The last few weeks he barks at everything. When my daughter comes out of her room he barks at her, if he hears the door bell on TV he barks, out in the yard if he sees or hears the neighbors he is non stop barking, when all is quiet at home he jumps out and barks all around the house. As I write this he is outside barking because my neighbor is mowing the lawn...after a while it's just annoying and exhausting. I love my Teddy and want to help him. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I love what I have read thus far and can certainly relate :-)
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:09 PM   #13
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I have somewhat of a similar situation. Teddy is our rescue Yorkie we adopted in August. The last few weeks he barks at everything. When my daughter comes out of her room he barks at her, if he hears the door bell on TV he barks, out in the yard if he sees or hears the neighbors he is non stop barking, when all is quiet at home he jumps out and barks all around the house. As I write this he is outside barking because my neighbor is mowing the lawn...after a while it's just annoying and exhausting. I love my Teddy and want to help him. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I love what I have read thus far and can certainly relate :-)
Last month August or a year ago August? Either way, the same type obedience training program, plenty of exercise and challenging games will help your dog to learn to bond with you, learn to mind you while controlling his impulses and learn that pleasing you makes both of you happiest. Teaching a dog to bark on command and then to go quiet on command can work, in conjunction with a good rehab program outlined above, will almost immediately help the dog control the barking early on. Usually barking is done for many reasons - boredom, loneliness, anxiety, fear, social uncertainty and just something to do like smoking a cigarette or playing a video game. So getting a dog that behaves and wants to listen to your requests ASAP is what you want and training, life enrichment and exercise can all work together to bring about a well-behaved dog that obeys you and rarely acts up. Once your dog is satisfied with enough exercise, an interesting life and a relationship with you, the barking will cease to be a problem. Well-trained, busy, happy dogs just don't bark like that so work toward creating a new pet using the above suggestions will give you the pet you want.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:42 PM   #14
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We got Teddy a little over a month ago 8/17/2013. He is the sweetest boy and has been through so much in his 2 1/2 years. Thanks for your response. I will definitely work on your suggestions.
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Old 09-29-2013, 05:24 PM   #15
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I have somewhat of a similar situation. Teddy is our rescue Yorkie we adopted in August. The last few weeks he barks at everything. When my daughter comes out of her room he barks at her, if he hears the door bell on TV he barks, out in the yard if he sees or hears the neighbors he is non stop barking, when all is quiet at home he jumps out and barks all around the house. As I write this he is outside barking because my neighbor is mowing the lawn...after a while it's just annoying and exhausting. I love my Teddy and want to help him. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I love what I have read thus far and can certainly relate :-)
I totally understand the barking issue. Today has been a rather rough one. Anna actually bit me 3 times. This is new. One of these is when we trying to train. She is a foodie and she got angry when we were working on sitting and let me have it. I finally gave her one of the pills prescribed by our vet. It calmed her down a lot. I couldn't even get her to run around in the yard. She just did circles barking angrily. We had no idea why today was different. Then, my MIL came by and said while we were out running, she stuck her head in. It must have sent Anna off the deep end. I can relate to your statement about loving Teddy. In the few short months that we've had Anna, she has wrapped us around her tiny paws. As a matter of fact, each night when we go to bed, I kiss each of her little paws...and Barney's. We will do anything to help her adjust even if that means being a teething ring for a while.
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