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Old 12-22-2005, 02:56 PM   #1
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Default Puppys with problems!!!!

This is something that has always bothered me.

We all go out and get a little puppy from someone -- who asks us to take it to our Vet within a day or two, and they usually say that we can return the puppy if it has any serious health problems.

So off we go to the vet (pay the bill) - and lo and behold some of our little puppys did, indeed, have health problems. But, more often than not, we have already become attached to the little guy, and many of us do not return the puppy to the breeder. We often keep the pup in spite of whatever problems it might have (and some are serious - for sure!)

What is wrong with this picture!!!!!

I think I want a two-fold agreement (in writing) the next time I purchase a puppy.

I want the option to return the puppy for a full refund (if any serious health problems are found) --- and I also want the option (in writing) of having a good portion of my purchase price refunded, if I find any serious health problems and choose to keep the puppy.

Doesn't it seem possible that a little puppy with health problems could be returned and then be resold to unsuspecting buyer who again may or may not choose to keep it. This is not a good thing....

We have so many wonderful honest breeders on this site ---

What do you do if a puppy is brought back to you with health problems that you were unaware of?

What if the people are willing to keep it - do you refund part of their purchase price - so that they can spend that same money at the Vet's office taking care of the little guy?

If someone is willing and wants to keep a puppy that you sold them with health problems that will require vet care, do you offer to refund part of their purchase price?

If you get the puppy back, do you try to sell it at a reduced price or even give it away to someone else because of it's problems?

What is the fair (ethical) thing to do? What do you do?

Carol Jean
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Old 12-22-2005, 03:06 PM   #2
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Well, for me it is not going to happen when they just leave because they are check by my vet before going to a new home. If something developes later down the line, my contract states that if buyer wants to retun pup to me for either a full refund, or another puppy they can but they also have the option of keeping the pup with the problem and I will pay vet bills up to the purchase price of the pup. The choice is theirs.
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Old 12-22-2005, 03:11 PM   #3
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MMYOrkies --- your way of dealing with these problems is extremely fair -
above and beyond fair -- good for you! I doubt most people selling puppies are as generous and fair as you are.

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Old 12-22-2005, 03:45 PM   #4
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Default yay

i was just discussing this with wnalegria after reading the post from pixelate and would really love to hear what everyone has to say about it. good post
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:49 PM   #5
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Default refund

Unfortunately, mistakes are made. Good Vets can miss a problem, it happens, I know it for a fact of life. Never say it will not happen to you..infact vets can disagree..what one sees as a common puppy thing and charges $20 to fix it, another vet may run $300 worth of tests and swear they are needed.

If something was missed in a sold puppy, I would pay for the vet
fees/meds...or the buyer could return for a full refund.

Legally, a person can not get a refund and keep the puppy. If I buy a dress and it has a broken zipper, I can return it for a refund, but I can get a refund and keep the dress...but with a dog, I feel this goes beyond the law. It is a ethical issue.
Breeders count on people not wanting to return the pup..they know the law backs them..no return, no refund.
If a buyer is willing to take on the responsiblity of fixing what is broken, then I will refund the price to fix it..it might only be $100 or it may be $1000. What difference does it make if I fix it or the owner fixes it, just so it is fixed?
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:58 PM   #6
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Just me, but my plan...and I have not had to do this, hope I never do...if something should happen to one of our pups, I will work out with the new owner assisting (a considerable portion) of treatment/surgery if they decide to keep the pup. Seems only fair.
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Old 12-22-2005, 06:51 PM   #7
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My contract is in writing and includes a full refund with return of pup within 10 days for any reason other than injury/neglect..also, one year covered on any vet expenses for genetically related health issues up to the purchase price of the dog WITHOUT having to return it. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to exchange a pup, they are part of the family, right? Return is required if you can no longer care for the dog at any point in it's lifetime.
If all breeders did this, there would not be any overcrowded shelters.
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Old 12-22-2005, 07:17 PM   #8
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It is always good to check with state laws. Most give the buyer up to the price of the puppy for vet bills. If you pay $1000 and have a $1500 vet bill, you would get $1000...and so on.
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Old 12-23-2005, 12:11 AM   #9
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This is a very good post...some wonderful responses as well. I too have yet have had a puppy returned to me. With the exception of a mini pin pup that I was told bite their daughter. That is a long story and won't go into details on that. I welcomed the pup back. After spending another month with me I found a more suitable home for this puppy as it had been though a lot from the daughter of the old owners..Until a house fire took this little girl, years later from her second owners, she had been the best mini pin they had, per their conversations with me.

Since I haven't had any problems with my puppies all I can say is I would take each case one by one. As many bad breeders that are out there, there is as many bad pet owners too. Although we screen our new potential owners for our puppies, this is never a total guarantee for us either.
I will stand by my puppies and if anything is found that was missed by my vet, these findings would have to be given to both my vet and I. The right and proper measurements would be taken, so both the pet owner and I happy with the outcome. MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE WOULD BE IS THAT PUPPY WOULD GET THE MEDICAL ATTENTION NEEDED. I would be willing to cover that cost up to the amount of purchase of the pup, with written documentation from their vet to be given to my vet to review the findings.
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Old 12-23-2005, 03:36 AM   #10
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This issue gets complicated. I have found that some vets in my area- will find something wrong when they do a new puppy exam-regardless.

For instance some will want the new puppy owner to have a lot of testing done that normally would not be done, some will base this testing on the size of the owners pocket book.

Last winter I bought two male puppies- who carried the parti gene.

I placed one because he was getting too large for my goals and had not dropped his testicles. These folks were local- we went to my vet and had his 16 week check up and exam done ( that I paid for). All was well- kid went home and needs his rabies he is old enough- they proceed to their new vet. This vet will not accept any of the documentation from my vet and procedes to have them re-due all the puppy shots. They are charges big bucks. They have to have this boy neutered part of the agreement of prchase. They are told it could be over $1,000.00 because the testicles were not dropped and dog should have radiation to prevent cancer.

Well I got a frantic phone call asking what I was going to do. They wanted me to pay for the bill and give a replacement puppy. We look at the contract- I disclosed that this guy had not dropped his testicles- new owner was aware of this diclosure and had accepted puppy with this problem. I had in the contract that puppy was to be neutered and that I would pay the differance between a standard neutering and what this one would cost at my vet. My quote from my vet was that I was looking at a out of pocket at no more then $100.00

This family wanted me to write them a check for $1,300.00 to cover the cost of the surgery. I refused. I once again reminded them that a third opinion of the cost would benefit both of us. Dog was taken to four other vets who all quoted a total surgery of less then $200.00. They still wanted $1,300.00.
After a lot of conversation the baby was taken to my vet- alter was done.
My out of pocket portion was $55.00. These folks then asked for me to pay for the entire surgery which was $180.00. They did not feel that they should have to pay anything due to what it cost them for re doing the puppy shots at thier vet.


Some vets will find something wrong with this new baby regardless. I try and keep track of the names of vets that the kids go to for exams in my area.
If a new owner lives close- I try and give them the names of the vets who have looked at my kids in the area and the new owners have found to be a good vet. I will even give then the name of the client so that they can talk.

If there is something seriously wrong with a baby that I sold- I want it back- regardless of sentiment. Three-Four days with the new owner is nothing compared to the 12-16 weeks that they spent with me. Money is refunded -if they want another puppy that is their option if I have one available. My standard agreement states 72 hours but I change that all the time to work with the new owners needs. I have gave people up to 14 days from the time they took the baby to have them checked by their vet.

After baby has passed his exam and time table of return policy has passed- I do not refund money. My contract then calls for a replacement puppy for items covered in the health warranty.
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Old 12-23-2005, 04:07 AM   #11
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Vets are just like doctors for humans. They all make mistakes, they all have different ways of doing things, and they all charge differently. However, redoing the shots can be dangerous so as soon as I would have heard that I would have gone to a different vet for a different opinion.

I have a friend that is adopting a daughter from China. I have another friend that already did. The second friend's daughter almost died the day of adoption. The China government offered them a different child. They took their original baby home with them. Child is now growing fat and healthy! However, if things worked out differently (and thank God they didn't), if the baby ended up needing serious hospitalization or ended up dying, do you think my friend would have been able to get a refund from the adoption agency? No. I look at adopting a dog or cat the same way. You are adopting them in to the family. Therefore treat them like family. Yes, I like the 10 day refund clause most contracts have. I agree they should be included. But the breeder's generosity should not be taken advantage of.

God forbid anything happen to my Matthias. But if something did arise, I would not ask for a refund or blame the breeder. These things happen. I adopted my boy and promised to care for him. So I will. Regardless of cost. The day I adopted him is the day he became my responsibility.
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