Highlight of obedience class last night - YorkieTalk.com Forums

AnneJ68 · 03-13-2013, 06:46 AM

After starting off bad last week with obedience class and wondering if I made a mistake with that particular trainer first class with Bentley was last night.

One of the major issues last week was harness vs. collar. After much soul searching, harness changes(even the Premier Easy Walk Harness) over the weekend, I decided to test Bentley with his collar. Boy was I shocked.

Immediately after removing his leash from the harness and placing it on the collar he dropped from 95% pulling to an extremely gentle less than 5%. And I mean extremely gentle. (The minute he gets ahead of me I stop and he stops and I can get him refocused.) I was fully aware of CT issues, but just wanted to try to see if it would make a difference in pulling. And boy did it ever. I am by no means endorsing collars for everyone, but I guess this is another case of everyone's different. So unless he shows a sudden desire to pull hard at least for now he will be on the collar.

That was just an update from last weeks whine about obedience class. lol

Now on to the highlight. After class Bentley FINALLY pottied outside for the very first time. Potty outside has been a big issue. Twice over the weekend I had to rush him home because he was whimpering so bad because he had to pee but still refused to potty outside.

It's the small things in life that make puppy mommies happy. lol

Poor baby is the smallest kid in class, but he was the best behaved. And that's not just a mom bragging. Wish the owner of the German Shepard next to me last night was better behaved. She kept letting her dog have a long leash and he kept coming over and checking out Bentley, who stayed seated right next to me. He was not aggressive, but he did frighten Bentley with his size. Finally the trainer came over and told her she NEEDED to keep him on a short leash.

Ldyrev1 · 03-13-2013, 06:53 AM

Congrats To you and Bentley on this momentous occasion. LOL You are right, we furbaby mommies do get excited at every accomplishment. LOL The potty issue is a big deal for such a little one. It sounds like training class was a success as well.

You are right, some people just don't see that they are not in control of their animals and it's sad. A great thing though that the trainer got on her about it though, maybe it will help.

Congrats again!!

kjc · 03-13-2013, 07:08 AM

Glad things went well... but I am on the other side of the fence with the collar issue. One option would be to put a leash on both the harness and the collar, and only use the collar as sparingly as possible.

Another option is to train him to respect his harness and you. This can be accomplished by doing things like figure 8s (teaches him to watch you feet for direction changes), and intentional reverse direction changes when he begins pulling.

Yorkiemom1 · 03-13-2013, 08:55 AM

Having seen the trauma that can be caused by collars, I would do ANYTHING I could do to get him to behave using the harness....especially if you are out walking and are attacked by a larger dog...with a halter, you can actually swing your pup up out of harms way without strangling/injuring him....with a collar, he will either slip out of the collar and become "hor d'orve on the hoof", or you will choke him/hang him/really do serious damage to his trachea. You train him follow YOUR instructions, not let him dictate to you what he wants in order to behave.

brezofleur · 03-13-2013, 09:04 AM

CT aside, I personally do not think collars should be used with leashes.

I agree with the above... please do your best to switch him to a harness. I have seen too many dogs, family and friends, that have slipped out of their collar and been run over, run off from fear of a loud noise or attacked by larger dogs.

But, congrats on outside potty!! That is definitely worthy of celebration!

Also, I'm glad that the trainer told that GSD owner about the shorter leash. I hope it sticks with her... So many people are just ignorant (and/or arrogant!) of that fact. Yes, you know your dog...but you don't know your dog's "thought process"/instinctive drive. You don't know what will happen or how rough they'll "play."

Deb1 · 03-13-2013, 09:17 AM

I am glad the class went better, but I am not in agreement with the collar vs halter. Isn't there another type of halter that is made for dogs that pull? I think I am seen them some where, but can't remember!

Maximo · 03-13-2013, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnneJ68

Now on to the highlight. After class Bentley FINALLY pottied outside for the very first time. Potty outside has been a big issue. Twice over the weekend I had to rush him home because he was whimpering so bad because he had to pee but still refused to potty outside.

Too funny! Way to go Bentley! I had the same experience with Max. He thought he had to potty only on the pad at home, so we had to rush him home a lot too. The first time he went outside, because he couldn't hold it any longer, he was so surprised when he saw how happy I was. From that day on, he wanted to potty outside.

I'm glad to hear that training class is going well, and that the trainer told the GSD person to shorten the leash.

Collar vs Harness -- My primary concern with the collar is that something like the UPS truck or a squirrel would cause my guys to run and jerk hard on the end of the leash. It only takes one incident to cause major damage. I also agree with Yorkiemom that in an emergency, it is nice to be able to swing my guys up into my arms with their harnesses.

chachi · 03-13-2013, 10:17 AM

There is no way Id use a collar ever with the risk of collapsed trachea. Have you ever read any of the collapsed trachea threads? Theres no cure for it,it can progressively get worse, and sometimes the breathing gets so bad the kindest thing you can do is put them down. Yorkies are already predisposed to getting collapsed trachea even if they have never had a collar on so why increase that risk by using a collar. There is no training that is worth that risk and they can be trained not to pull with a harness. My chachi used to be a bad puller and in time he learned how to walk without pulling. You shouldnt be allowing him to walk in front of you untill he learns not to pull. You keep a short leash and keep it at your side. I hope you reconsider about using a collar and if yout not convinced read some of the collapsed trachea threads in the sick and injured section they will break your heart

Clyde_Dexter · 03-13-2013, 10:30 AM

It seems that you have gotten enough really good advice about the importance of using a harness instead of a collar, so I just wanted to say ...

congrats! It is always wonderful when our pups start making progress in training. I hope that Bentley can continue to get better with his training, and that eventually he will go potty outside for you whenever you need him to! I bet it looked really freakin' cute to see such a little dog training beside all the big dogs & doing so much better.

It was very good of that trainer to make sure the German Shepherd stayed in its own personal space. That is very important when larger dogs are around smaller dogs in environments, especially when both dogs are a training in progress. And especially in an area where they are supposed to feel safe and focus on their owners for training.

You both should feel very proud! Training takes a lot of dedication and practice on both parts. Keep up the good work Bentley & momma!

Teresa Ford · 03-13-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Having seen the trauma that can be caused by collars, I would do ANYTHING I could do to get him to behave using the harness....especially if you are out walking and are attacked by a larger dog...with a halter, you can actually swing your pup up out of harms way without strangling/injuring him....with a collar, he will either slip out of the collar and become "hor d'orve on the hoof", or you will choke him/hang him/really do serious damage to his trachea. You train him follow YOUR instructions, not let him dictate to you what he wants in order to behave.

Please use a harness. Collars hooked to a leash are not acceptable for small toy dogs. Pulling IS NOT the problem. Taking the time to train is. This is a puppy, gentle, reward based, slow training is the best. Slapping him in the head with a stick will teach him not to surge ahead, but I DO NOT recommend that either.

yorkietalkjilly · 03-13-2013, 03:24 PM

Pulling is a head thing and the result of poor impulse control. Train your dog not to pull and you can walk him with a string tied around his waist! Haha. Just kidding about that but you get the point. Just teach him not to pull. When he starts pulling just stop and stand in place or turn, walk the other way. If you choose to stand in place, just stand there and don't move until he calms down. You do not move forward until the dog stops moving, jumping, pulling and controls himself. The reward for calm standing is to say "Yes" and to walk forward again. You are teaching the dog to calm himself. At first you will think he can't or you won't live that long but, girl, if you stand there, eventually he will stand still. Bingo! Say "Yes" and move forward. He has just learned that controlling himself got him something he wanted. The second time he learns this, even better. After a couple of weeks of this, he will begin to associate that "Oh, if I stop pulling and jumping, we get to walk forward" and make himself do it. Keep it up and don't grow tired of him taking time to learn because one of the things he is learning is that excitement and pulling GET HIM EXACTLY ZIP! NOTHING! So all that jumping he is doing at the end of the leash is teaching him that nothing fun happens that way. Eventually the little guy will get the idea, learn to control his impulse to pull and jump around and walk nicely with only normal, occasional pulling which is quite fine for a dog out for an enjoyable walk. Only the military or police need a dog that is trained to walk like a robot and never takes a wrong step!

The first part of a good walk allows the dog to walk and smell and do what he wants, stop and sniff every scent he's interested in and explore, wander and kick up his heels, even walk in circles around his mommie if he wants. JK about that, too, but it happens sometimes! But a good, natural walk allows him to "read" the news of who has recently been around and all about them and their territory, their gender, society, etc. It is exciting for your dog to get to sniff all of that information and informs him. Your dog needs this instinctively - he yearns for it. Let him sniff and smell and pee and pee and pee all the way along the first part of the walk. Then, half way through it, stop, go the other way and walk briskly and get those little muscles of his moving along smartly and keep him going to get in a good exercise. But you don't need a collar to control a dog by the neck. It's all in the head and whether or not you have control over your dog's impulses. You will get there by simple obedience training and always being in control of your dog. You can always be in control of your dog by teaching him tricks and to do things you ask him to, in reward for a nice treat and praise. Small dogs rarely work well for praise - mostly it is for food, though some works for toys. Dogs will do just about anything for food. In time, they learn that pleasing you is really neat, too and eventually, they learn to want to please you more than anything, as they see you as an extension of them - and their pack leader. They recognize they are part of a team and they want to do what you say. But you, a private person, without a service dog in the military or police to train, don't need neck control as you train. Don't let some dog trainer convince you otherwise. You are in control of your own dog so stand up to any trainer that might cause you to somehow strain your dog's delicate trachea with a collar. Just work on your dog's brain and teach it and the body will follow.

furrybaby · 03-13-2013, 04:24 PM

While in class, I'd obey the instructor, you can do what you want afterwards. Maybe in a few months or less pulling won't be an issue, you can use it in class and switch to the harness outside of class. Those that show dogs aren't using a harness.

Congratulations for the improvements made!

yorkietalkjilly · 03-13-2013, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furrybaby

While in class, I'd obey the instructor, you can do what you want afterwards. Maybe in a few months or less pulling won't be an issue, you can use it in class and switch to the harness outside of class. Those that show dogs aren't using a harness.

Congratulations for the improvements made!

A knowledgeable instructor won't use a collar on a breed of dog predisposed to CT and wouldn't recommend using one. I'd just pull my trainer aside and explain the problem, give them some literature from the Internet if they needed back-up and the trainer could explain it to the class if they so chose why an exception was being made. But I wouldn't take a chance of causing an injury to a dog that could be predisposed to CT genetically by breed, no matter what the trainer wanted.

joeyyy2010 · 03-13-2013, 05:15 PM

Aww I was so excited when Joey went outside too!! Now he loves it and loves to be free out side! Ive not thought about trying a collar on him, but maybe that will work. I noticed sometimes he pulls a bit and I dont want to cause any problems.

My Sophia · 03-13-2013, 05:53 PM

My Gulliver was a horrible, horrible puller on walks. I worked with him and he improved, but he still liked to walk faster than I do and even with harnesses he would strain against the leash and make himself hack and cough. I finally found the best harness at Petsmart. It fastens around his chest just behind the front legs and then from the shoulders across his chest, nowhere near his neck. And best of all, the leash attaches in front in the middle of his chest so as soon as he tries to pull against me he turns himself around. Instantly eliminated all pulling with him. You might check this type of harness out. It's similar to the Easy Walk style but instead of wrapping around the snout and neck it goes around the chest. Much safer for breeds like Yorkies with more delicate necks and throats.

03-13-2013, 06:46 AM	#1
AnneJ68 YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Danville, VA Posts: 790	Highlight of obedience class last night After starting off bad last week with obedience class and wondering if I made a mistake with that particular trainer first class with Bentley was last night. One of the major issues last week was harness vs. collar. After much soul searching, harness changes(even the Premier Easy Walk Harness) over the weekend, I decided to test Bentley with his collar. Boy was I shocked. Immediately after removing his leash from the harness and placing it on the collar he dropped from 95% pulling to an extremely gentle less than 5%. And I mean extremely gentle. (The minute he gets ahead of me I stop and he stops and I can get him refocused.) I was fully aware of CT issues, but just wanted to try to see if it would make a difference in pulling. And boy did it ever. I am by no means endorsing collars for everyone, but I guess this is another case of everyone's different. So unless he shows a sudden desire to pull hard at least for now he will be on the collar. That was just an update from last weeks whine about obedience class. lol Now on to the highlight. After class Bentley FINALLY pottied outside for the very first time. Potty outside has been a big issue. Twice over the weekend I had to rush him home because he was whimpering so bad because he had to pee but still refused to potty outside. It's the small things in life that make puppy mommies happy. lol Poor baby is the smallest kid in class, but he was the best behaved. And that's not just a mom bragging. Wish the owner of the German Shepard next to me last night was better behaved. She kept letting her dog have a long leash and he kept coming over and checking out Bentley, who stayed seated right next to me. He was not aggressive, but he did frighten Bentley with his size. Finally the trainer came over and told her she NEEDED to keep him on a short leash. __________________ Anne Bentley's Tumblr masterbentleyba.tumblr.com

03-13-2013, 06:53 AM	#2
Ldyrev1 Princess Sophie's Choice Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Clinton, IL, DeWitt County Posts: 2,758	Congrats To you and Bentley on this momentous occasion. LOL You are right, we furbaby mommies do get excited at every accomplishment. LOL The potty issue is a big deal for such a little one. It sounds like training class was a success as well. You are right, some people just don't see that they are not in control of their animals and it's sad. A great thing though that the trainer got on her about it though, maybe it will help. Congrats again!! __________________ Diane owned and loved by Hansel and Princess Sophie

03-13-2013, 07:08 AM	#3
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,866	Glad things went well... but I am on the other side of the fence with the collar issue. One option would be to put a leash on both the harness and the collar, and only use the collar as sparingly as possible. Another option is to train him to respect his harness and you. This can be accomplished by doing things like figure 8s (teaches him to watch you feet for direction changes), and intentional reverse direction changes when he begins pulling. __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

03-13-2013, 08:55 AM	#4
Yorkiemom1 Rosehill Yorkies Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 9,462	Having seen the trauma that can be caused by collars, I would do ANYTHING I could do to get him to behave using the harness....especially if you are out walking and are attacked by a larger dog...with a halter, you can actually swing your pup up out of harms way without strangling/injuring him....with a collar, he will either slip out of the collar and become "hor d'orve on the hoof", or you will choke him/hang him/really do serious damage to his trachea. You train him follow YOUR instructions, not let him dictate to you what he wants in order to behave. Last edited by Yorkiemom1; 03-13-2013 at 08:56 AM.

03-13-2013, 09:04 AM	#5
brezofleur Donating YT Addict Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 6,982	CT aside, I personally do not think collars should be used with leashes. I agree with the above... please do your best to switch him to a harness. I have seen too many dogs, family and friends, that have slipped out of their collar and been run over, run off from fear of a loud noise or attacked by larger dogs. But, congrats on outside potty!! That is definitely worthy of celebration! Also, I'm glad that the trainer told that GSD owner about the shorter leash. I hope it sticks with her... So many people are just ignorant (and/or arrogant!) of that fact. Yes, you know your dog...but you don't know your dog's "thought process"/instinctive drive. You don't know what will happen or how rough they'll "play." __________________ Heather Zeus \| Thalia

03-13-2013, 09:17 AM	#6
Deb1 YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,983 Blog Entries: 3	I am glad the class went better, but I am not in agreement with the collar vs halter. Isn't there another type of halter that is made for dogs that pull? I think I am seen them some where, but can't remember! __________________ Proud Mommy to Max, Teeka, Tatiana and forever in my heart Tameka! My sunshine doesn't come from the skies, it comes from my puppies eyes!

03-13-2013, 10:17 AM	#8
chachi I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 37,147	There is no way Id use a collar ever with the risk of collapsed trachea. Have you ever read any of the collapsed trachea threads? Theres no cure for it,it can progressively get worse, and sometimes the breathing gets so bad the kindest thing you can do is put them down. Yorkies are already predisposed to getting collapsed trachea even if they have never had a collar on so why increase that risk by using a collar. There is no training that is worth that risk and they can be trained not to pull with a harness. My chachi used to be a bad puller and in time he learned how to walk without pulling. You shouldnt be allowing him to walk in front of you untill he learns not to pull. You keep a short leash and keep it at your side. I hope you reconsider about using a collar and if yout not convinced read some of the collapsed trachea threads in the sick and injured section they will break your heart __________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431 Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427

03-13-2013, 10:30 AM	#9
Clyde_Dexter Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: California Posts: 792 Blog Entries: 2	It seems that you have gotten enough really good advice about the importance of using a harness instead of a collar, so I just wanted to say ... congrats! It is always wonderful when our pups start making progress in training. I hope that Bentley can continue to get better with his training, and that eventually he will go potty outside for you whenever you need him to! I bet it looked really freakin' cute to see such a little dog training beside all the big dogs & doing so much better. It was very good of that trainer to make sure the German Shepherd stayed in its own personal space. That is very important when larger dogs are around smaller dogs in environments, especially when both dogs are a training in progress. And especially in an area where they are supposed to feel safe and focus on their owners for training. You both should feel very proud! Training takes a lot of dedication and practice on both parts. Keep up the good work Bentley & momma!

03-13-2013, 03:24 PM	#11
yorkietalkjilly ♥ Love My Tibbe! ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: D/FW, Texas Posts: 22,140	Pulling is a head thing and the result of poor impulse control. Train your dog not to pull and you can walk him with a string tied around his waist! Haha. Just kidding about that but you get the point. Just teach him not to pull. When he starts pulling just stop and stand in place or turn, walk the other way. If you choose to stand in place, just stand there and don't move until he calms down. You do not move forward until the dog stops moving, jumping, pulling and controls himself. The reward for calm standing is to say "Yes" and to walk forward again. You are teaching the dog to calm himself. At first you will think he can't or you won't live that long but, girl, if you stand there, eventually he will stand still. Bingo! Say "Yes" and move forward. He has just learned that controlling himself got him something he wanted. The second time he learns this, even better. After a couple of weeks of this, he will begin to associate that "Oh, if I stop pulling and jumping, we get to walk forward" and make himself do it. Keep it up and don't grow tired of him taking time to learn because one of the things he is learning is that excitement and pulling GET HIM EXACTLY ZIP! NOTHING! So all that jumping he is doing at the end of the leash is teaching him that nothing fun happens that way. Eventually the little guy will get the idea, learn to control his impulse to pull and jump around and walk nicely with only normal, occasional pulling which is quite fine for a dog out for an enjoyable walk. Only the military or police need a dog that is trained to walk like a robot and never takes a wrong step! The first part of a good walk allows the dog to walk and smell and do what he wants, stop and sniff every scent he's interested in and explore, wander and kick up his heels, even walk in circles around his mommie if he wants. JK about that, too, but it happens sometimes! But a good, natural walk allows him to "read" the news of who has recently been around and all about them and their territory, their gender, society, etc. It is exciting for your dog to get to sniff all of that information and informs him. Your dog needs this instinctively - he yearns for it. Let him sniff and smell and pee and pee and pee all the way along the first part of the walk. Then, half way through it, stop, go the other way and walk briskly and get those little muscles of his moving along smartly and keep him going to get in a good exercise. But you don't need a collar to control a dog by the neck. It's all in the head and whether or not you have control over your dog's impulses. You will get there by simple obedience training and always being in control of your dog. You can always be in control of your dog by teaching him tricks and to do things you ask him to, in reward for a nice treat and praise. Small dogs rarely work well for praise - mostly it is for food, though some works for toys. Dogs will do just about anything for food. In time, they learn that pleasing you is really neat, too and eventually, they learn to want to please you more than anything, as they see you as an extension of them - and their pack leader. They recognize they are part of a team and they want to do what you say. But you, a private person, without a service dog in the military or police to train, don't need neck control as you train. Don't let some dog trainer convince you otherwise. You are in control of your own dog so stand up to any trainer that might cause you to somehow strain your dog's delicate trachea with a collar. Just work on your dog's brain and teach it and the body will follow. __________________ Jeanie and Tibbe One must do the best one can. You may get some marks for a very imperfect answer: you will certainly get none for leaving the question alone. C. S. Lewis

03-13-2013, 04:24 PM	#12
furrybaby Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Furville, CA Posts: 173	While in class, I'd obey the instructor, you can do what you want afterwards. Maybe in a few months or less pulling won't be an issue, you can use it in class and switch to the harness outside of class. Those that show dogs aren't using a harness. Congratulations for the improvements made!

03-13-2013, 05:15 PM	#14
joeyyy2010 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: tampa Posts: 705	Aww I was so excited when Joey went outside too!! Now he loves it and loves to be free out side! Ive not thought about trying a collar on him, but maybe that will work. I noticed sometimes he pulls a bit and I dont want to cause any problems. __________________ Rebecca Joey Carley

03-13-2013, 05:53 PM	#15
My Sophia YT Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA Posts: 467	My Gulliver was a horrible, horrible puller on walks. I worked with him and he improved, but he still liked to walk faster than I do and even with harnesses he would strain against the leash and make himself hack and cough. I finally found the best harness at Petsmart. It fastens around his chest just behind the front legs and then from the shoulders across his chest, nowhere near his neck. And best of all, the leash attaches in front in the middle of his chest so as soon as he tries to pull against me he turns himself around. Instantly eliminated all pulling with him. You might check this type of harness out. It's similar to the Easy Walk style but instead of wrapping around the snout and neck it goes around the chest. Much safer for breeds like Yorkies with more delicate necks and throats.