Yorkie and pitbull Biting each other Help !

[DBlain]

we might have different beliefs when it comes to pits but I think we all agree the situation posted about by the OP is an accident waiting to happen unless some very important training measures and strict separation guide lines are adhered to, but unfortunately like so many new members if they don't hear what they want to hear they bow out of the conversation, oh well hopefully our collective concerns made a bit of an impact and this tread will also be seen by others thinking of entering into the same type of situation

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by DBlain

you guys are right and I thought I said so in an earlier post, yorkies also have been know to be very aggressive. I know this first hand because I owned two at different times that wanted to kill any dog they came in contact with, only they were both less than 5 lbs so the only damage they did was to themselves since they both attacked much larger dogs. Westies and Scotties can be pretty aggressive as well, often when walking we encounter smaller dogs that when we approach the owner will say, don't get to close they don't like other dogs. The big difference of course is size and the amount of damage the larger prey driven aggressive dog can do. Training obviously is important but since I had two highly aggressive yorkies and two sweet as pie yorkies and now Lola a mix of two breeds that are known to be snippy but has yet not met a dog or human she does not instantly love I know that sometimes instinct and personality trumps training. I also wonder about rescue pits, with so many of you talking about the importance of training early and special training, I sure would be extra nervous taking on an adult pit since often not much is known about their early life.

You bring up an important point. I have no doubt that Joey would be to blame if he got into a fight with a dog, he's very alpha and clearly dominates all the dogs that come into our house, and even the big ones are respectful of him in HIS house. However, he really can't damage them, I've gotten my hand in the way of his bites before and it's such a gentle bite, he really is all bark and no bite. So while Joey may start the fight, I'm afraid another dog might finish it, that's why I believe that special training is needed for larger dogs.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by DBlain

I thought of this thread this morning, Lola was laying next to her toy, I went to pick it up to toss it to her. She did not intend to bite me, she just went to grab it and my finger got in the way. I can't believe how deep her tooth went in and how much blood it drew. I actually had chills from it. Lola is 5.25 lbs but when playing or thinking about playing she gets very worked up and mouthy. Had she been a bigger dog I might be at the doctor right now. I know many of you mix dog sizes but like the link Nancy posted proves, without constant supervision the combo of a larger dog with a much smaller dog is an accident waiting to happen.

Play biting can be just as bad as biting on purpose. I was playing tug of war with my friends large dog one evening. I pulled the toy hard towards me and the dog lurched to get it and wound up biting into my lower arm. I was wearing a very heavy sweater but I felt the pain and then later when I got home saw that the dog's teeth marks were in my arm and in two places had broken the skin. I had a doctor friend with a pair of dobby sisters, he used to laugh about how he would have to stich up an ear or a leg from their "playing" So don't be fooled, when it's not a level playing field things could go wrong.

Donna, if you have ever had a large dog, you would know that you should only play tug with them under certain rules....and never put yourself in a competition with a dog in a win/lose situation...you should always be the most alpha...

my point is big dogs and little dogs are the same in all ways...the only difference is how we view them and train/tolerate from them...Lola bit you by accident because you allow her, because of her small stature, cutsie cutsie self to be powerful...we Yorkie owners are all guilty of that...if it were a big dog you would know better than to allow them to become like Lola??? The problem is that many big dog owners don't know the rules and are uneducated in owning big dogs...like your friends, they should have known better than to allow you to engage in tug with their dog...I certainly wouldn't have allowed anyone to play tug with my large dogs, not my labs, not my pit, not any of them...

Here is a video of which I've not seen but am sure it is based on what I already know of how to raise big dogs.


Tug of War with Your Dog | Cesar Millan

[gracielove]

Many small dogs give people a bad impression of other small dogs. People do not spend the time it takes to train them. Then the dog is yappy and nervous and generally annoying. When someone like that gets a larger breed puppy and does not train it you have a bigger disaster. So many large breed pups end up tied out in the back yard or just fenced in then after a few years of prison the dog goes to the shelter because no one can do anything with it. Eventually it will be put down. Very few people want to adopt a large untrained dog no matter what the breed.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by gracielove

Many small dogs give people a bad impression of other small dogs. People do not spend the time it takes to train them. Then the dog is yappy and nervous and generally annoying. When someone like that gets a larger breed puppy and does not train it you have a bigger disaster. So many large breed pups end up tied out in the back yard or just fenced in then after a few years of prison the dog goes to the shelter because no one can do anything with it. Eventually it will be put down. Very few people want to adopt a large untrained dog no matter what the breed.

[pinkpatty]

It takes a special dog person to take on a rescue adult Pit. I would not think of doing so and have over 50 years experience with large dog breeds. I helped my Father with training of his hunting dogs that he raised and trained from the age of 10. I have no fear of dogs big or small, but I kinow what I should do and not do and still I would not take on an adult rescue Pit no matter how gentle they say it is.

[pinkpatty]

Back when I was a teenager they used Pit Bull to hunt woodchucks. It takes a good dog to take on a woodchuck and Pit Bulls were the breed that did it best. Not only would they go to ground and dig the chuck out, they then would kill it.

[concretegurl]

Lynzy hit the nail on the head-a pit specific trainer will always foremost not only discourage but all out ban an owner from playing tug of war with a pit...Cesar is an idiot IMHO.

When you play tug of war you are saying "I am your equal challenge me and then lets add on the instinct of prey drive and aggression".

Even pits rescued from fighting rarely ever bite people, they are agressive specifically towards other animals and dogs...however the issue is they are trained to be so DA they will harm severely a person who gets between them and their prey.

This is not a yorkie or other dog bite, it will be deep, they will hold and trash tearing skin and muscle to the bone. Breaking their own teeth or being physically assaulted will not stop it, in fact these actions in fight trained dogs will only increase the severity of the attack.

As much as I have faith and belief in pits, people should treat having one the same as gun owner ship-training and safety measures should be foremost & required-period.

[gracielove]

It is criminal what humans have done to the Pit Bull. They do have very sweet natures and love their people but with humans breeding them to be bigger and more aggressive I understand why most would not want to adopt a rescue Pit. You don't know their breeding and you don't know what they have already been exposed to or trained to do.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by DBlain

I also wonder about rescue pits, with so many of you talking about the importance of training early and special training, I sure would be extra nervous taking on an adult pit since often not much is known about their early life.

I'd never own a Pit - just not my kind of dog, but if I was going to, I'd actually much rather get an adult from rescue than a puppy. That way, at least you already know if their DA and their general personality. As a rescue puppy, you will know nothing of their background, and often DA will not show up until 2+ years of age at maturity.

[veggienut]

I agree with everyone here about getting rid of the pit. Pit don't have to be trained to play roughly, they just do. Their mouths are strong and what they are known for, from what I learned about them recently while at the Vet's office and talking to someone in the waiting area. The Yorkshire Terrier is normally a small size of dog that is delicate. In time, maybe the pit will see the Yorkie as a toy. I'd would of gotten another Yorkie or dog of the same size that is similar in temperament, like a Shih Tzu.

[concretegurl]

Pit rescue has changed a lot inof recent years.

There are two serious divisions:
those who believe you can save them all at whatever cost (no not finacial) and those who believe in saving the ones you can through hard tedious efforts and humane euthanasia for those who are the victims of worthless people.

[GuinnessStout]

Originally Posted by veggienut

I agree with everyone here about getting rid of the pit. Pit don't have to be trained to play roughly, they just do. Their mouths are strong and what they are known for, from what I learned about them recently while at the Vet's office and talking to someone in the waiting area. The Yorkshire Terrier is normally a small size of dog that is delicate. In time, maybe the pit will see the Yorkie as a toy. I'd would of gotten another Yorkie or dog of the same size that is similar in temperament, like a Shih Tzu.

All puppies play roughly no mater the breed, that is why you have to train them right from wrong play. My goddaughter's pit she got for her 5th birthday was properly trained, she is now 12 and my other 2 god kids in the same home with him are 9 and 3.... I trust this pit more then I even trust my own Yorkie. Krunk is one of the most loving and gentlest dogs I have ever been around but yet looks like a huge scary beast that just wants to curl up and sleep in your lap.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

Donna, if you have ever had a large dog, you would know that you should only play tug with them under certain rules....and never put yourself in a competition with a dog in a win/lose situation...you should always be the most alpha...

my point is big dogs and little dogs are the same in all ways...the only difference is how we view them and train/tolerate from them...Lola bit you by accident because you allow her, because of her small stature, cutsie cutsie self to be powerful...we Yorkie owners are all guilty of that...if it were a big dog you would know better than to allow them to become like Lola??? The problem is that many big dog owners don't know the rules and are uneducated in owning big dogs...like your friends, they should have known better than to allow you to engage in tug with their dog...I certainly wouldn't have allowed anyone to play tug with my large dogs, not my labs, not my pit, not any of them...

Here is a video of which I've not seen but am sure it is based on what I already know of how to raise big dogs.


Tug of War with Your Dog | Cesar Millan

Very very true. My big boy signalled early that he was going to be a handful, and thankfully I had two very good trainers to train with. At Mike's a working dog specialist he got huge experience in dog and ppl socialization from the time he was 12wks old. And he learnt his place as a small puppy interacting with bull mastiffs, neos, rottys and the leader of the pack a small female Aussie. He loved that girl, and she put him in his place until he was 3yrs old. LOL With Ilona he trained with Yorkies and other Blackies for competitive obedience training. IN his early first year he was at formal training a minimum of 3times a week up to 5x a week. He was not per say dog and or ppl aggressive, just a very dominant boy who wanted to be in charge of "me".

In terms of tug o war, which in the BRT breed is a very useful training tool; here is how we worked it. Learning the "out" command or drop it. Lots of rewards for obedience treats/pets, and the ultimate return of the beloved tug toy. As a way to strengthen the back end of the dog. Tug is kept low to the ground and the dog must use their back legs to pull back against your pressure.
You never, ever let them "win". And believe you me Magic as he got over one year old could have "won" it from me. If you are thinking you are losing it, you have one of two options; the OUT command or DROP IT or you let go of the toy and you turn your back with a delighted you good boy you! IF that sounds contrary, all I can tell you is that it works. I guess rationally it signifies that "you" have gotten bored and are not playing anymore.
The other beauty of the Tug is teaching a CDX level obedience skill of Take it and Hold it. This is a prelim step to the retrieve a dumbell over a high and or broad jump.

And to your point Lynzy only my trainers or a very select few mature BRT owners have ever played tug with Magic. And all have asked what is the "safety command". Oh yes that is trained in at a very early age; the safety command. I use STOP IT as the penultimate command. Never ever to be disobeyed.

In terms of LOLA, Donna's dog, I have found Lola to be a good citizen with dogs and ppl. Did Lola make a mistake when grabbing for the toy, sure. Perhaps it was the first time. Correction is necessary.
Magic has a habit of getting over -excited for food treats. Still we work on this. For strangers I say use open hand for giving treats. For Dave and I we work three times a week with close fist and the Easy command. What can I say but he is a Masterpiece in Process.

[gemy]

Our OP has not posted in awhile. I can only hope she reconsiders a few things.

Here are my beliefs:

Some large breeds are more suited to our Yorkie breed than others.

But all larger dogs to Yorkies and that is a whole lot, need to be trained, and the Yorkie protected until the new dog is obedience trained. Think about any dog that weighs 50% or more than your adult Yorkie. Damage can more easily be done inadvertently by the heavier dog.

Rules of "engagement"

1) Be prepared to crate and rotate until and unto such time as your new dog is fully trained for the basic obedience commands. This means only under the most limited circumstances is the big and the little allowed in the room together even WITH supervision, and never without supervision.

2) Know your dogs. That means what is their prey drive like. When they are puppies you will have only a inkling of their prey/toy/defense drive.
3) Be prepared to exercise and train separately, and one day hopefully together.
4) Train your new dog to never interfer with their pack mates eating. That means you stay present in the room in which you feed the dogs, and physically block if necessary one dog from going to the others bowl.

5) Likewise always discourage toy sharing and playing tug of war between two dogs of disparate size.

6) Never play fetch with one toy and two dogs of disparate size. That is a disaster waiting to happen. And be very cautious of two dogs of even the same size. I would not do it on wet grass or slippery ground, too much room for twist/rotational injuries.

Some-one mentioned that this seems like a stressful situation to live under. Perhaps it is for you, think about it. It certainly requires forethought and planning and a commitment on your part for likely 2yrs or maybe for the lifetime of your dogs, just depending on how everything works out. Are you ready for that?

This year I hope to add a female BRT puppy into our pack. At 8wks old she will likely weigh more than 3x Razzle's weight. For the first couple of months or more depending on how our large Male responds to a pesky puppy, she will sleep at night in a crate, as will Razzle continue to do so.

Razzle and this puppy will have very very supervised interactions, and maybe for the first month or so with both on leads. The puppy when very young will have her gated Xpen to be part of our pack, and will go on walks - separately, then with Magic, then with Razzle. She will start obedience training the moment she comes home, and then formally as soon as last shots are given. Hopefully she will be allowed out in the yard with Magic, but never with Razzle unleashed. That will only come when she is at CD level of obedience and only if her prey drive is not high. If her prey drive is high, that may mean never with Razzle unleashed - free in our backyard or outside.

OUr belated Zoey with a very high prey drive, only got to being allowed free with Razzle in the house, and NEVER outside off lead together. Also we train no chasing of toys in the house for obvious large dog reasons. We do play hide and seek the toys, and we will practice heel on lead and off lead, and come down sit stay, touch, drop, leave it, etc.