Training VS. Personality

[MishyMish]

I may not be posting in the right section, but...

I am curious to know about how much does training play into the misbehaving Yorkie or any dog for that matter. If people that come from good homes can potentially be bad, doesn't the same apply to dogs?

In the case of the misbehaved dog, how much of it is due to the lack of proper training vs. dogs personality ?

[gemy]

Originally Posted by MishyMish

I may not be posting in the right section, but...

I am curious to know about how much does training play into the misbehaving Yorkie or any dog for that matter. If people that come from good homes can potentially be bad, doesn't the same apply to dogs?

In the case of the misbehaved dog, how much of it is due to the lack of proper training vs. dogs personality ?

Good question. I do know that there is a very very tiny percentage of dogs that are born with for want of a better word, some weird wiring in the brain. Ie genetic. It can create a multiple of behavioural issues.

IMO - misbehaving dogs is almost always the fault of the owners. Lack of socialization, lack of training, lack of re-inforcing the training. Allowing dogs to get away with behaviour that is "cute" as a puppy but not so much as an adult.

Personality is always present in dogs. Some learn faster, some slower. Some are more outgoing, some not. Some have a natural inclination to love the game of chase and fetch, some do not. Some are more curious, some more shy. Some are mischeivous, some more serious. Some need more space, and some just want to be cuddle bugs.

But you as the owner shape your dog, especially when received as a pup. From the moment our pups come home, they begin to learn to love toys. We play fetch and chase and chew and release. We do this everyday, we do this many places. So my dogs have huge toy drive - which is a real bonus for training in more formal aspects. Their rewards are their toys.

It is possible to take a low drive dog and over time build that dog into a high drive one. For the most part it is up to you! Your own commitment, drive, dedication, and knowledge.

So I am saying I am on the side of environment and nuture being a huge predicator of a happy adult dog.

[Britster]

Honestly, I believe in training more than personality. To an extent. Yes each dog has individual personalities, for sure. Certain things you aren't going to change. But I truly believe with training and a bond, you can somewhat 'create' a dog to your liking. I've done it, and seen it done many times.

As an example, Jackson would not ever fetch. Just didn't care enough about toys, never interested. I had to train him to fetch. I started with treats, and a long line attached to him. I'd throw the ball a short distance and reward when he brought it back. Then throw it longer, etc. If he forget the ball, I'd give a light tug on his leash to remind him to bring it back. We did this for maybe 6 months. It only held his interest for maybe 5 mins though. We started building value in retrieving and eventually he started thinking it was fun! So we stopped using treats, and eventually the toy and the praise was reward enough. Fast forward about a year and a half later (now)... this is a dog that will play fetch for 30 minutes with a Chuck-It ... I mean I WING it as far as I can and he runs as fast as he can and brings it back. And he begs to keep playing more! Barking at me, all excited, waiting for the ball. He's a fetching fool now... it took a while, but I never gave up. I said I always wanted a dog who would fetch and now I have one! Granted, at 4 years old, but he even loves the frisbee now. I'll never have a Border Collie frisbee catcher, but he tries his hardest and he is having fun! He also does it in other locations now (the park etc). Every now and then I still reward him with treats, to keep him really interested (he's food motivated) but he never knows when he going to get a treat.

I know it's a bit different than what you're asking, but I think too often people think 'oh it's just his personality' and give up and just accept it, when you can try sooo many things to change a dog to your liking or for the better. It's the same thing with training. Yes I think some dogs are going to be more stubborn than others, etc, but overall training .. actual hardcore real bonding relationship based training can do so much for a dog!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Britster

Honestly, I believe in training more than personality. To an extent. Yes each dog has individual personalities, for sure. Certain things you aren't going to change. But I truly believe with training and a bond, you can somewhat 'create' a dog to your liking. I've done it, and seen it done many times.

As an example, Jackson would not ever fetch. Just didn't care enough about toys, never interested. I had to train him to fetch. I started with treats, and a long line attached to him. I'd throw the ball a short distance and reward when he brought it back. Then throw it longer, etc. If he forget the ball, I'd give a light tug on his leash to remind him to bring it back. We did this for maybe 6 months. It only held his interest for maybe 5 mins though. We started building value in retrieving and eventually he started thinking it was fun! So we stopped using treats, and eventually the toy and the praise was reward enough. Fast forward about a year and a half later (now)... this is a dog that will play fetch for 30 minutes with a Chuck-It ... I mean I WING it as far as I can and he runs as fast as he can and brings it back. And he begs to keep playing more! Barking at me, all excited, waiting for the ball. He's a fetching fool now... it took a while, but I never gave up. I said I always wanted a dog who would fetch and now I have one! Granted, at 4 years old, but he even loves the frisbee now. I'll never have a Border Collie frisbee catcher, but he tries his hardest and he is having fun! He also does it in other locations now (the park etc). Every now and then I still reward him with treats, to keep him really interested (he's food motivated) but he never knows when he going to get a treat.

I know it's a bit different than what you're asking, but I think too often people think 'oh it's just his personality' and give up and just accept it, when you can try sooo many things to change a dog to your liking or for the better. It's the same thing with training. Yes I think some dogs are going to be more stubborn than others, etc, but overall training .. actual hardcore real bonding relationship based training can do so much for a dog!

wonderful post, you are wise way beyond your years!

Our gal Zoey was very much like Jackson. She came to us at 7.5 mths old, and liked only sticks. She didn't really know how to "play" with humans. Oh she always wanted to run and chase Magic, who quite frankly if I was out and about he wasn't too interested in doing. What Moms was doing, was she going to throw a toy or need me to do something was very high on his radar.

Gradually, very gradually, she did finally get the concept of retreive, but still for her the grandest fun was chasing Magic as he went for the ball. It is a little harder in multi dog households to train up a dog.

It took Zoey 3 summers to learn to swim. As compared to Razz and Magic one summer.

Razzle came to us much earlier, and he too is very toy driven. It is just easier when the pups are young and come from a good breeder and trainer, to instill toy drive.

But here is where "personality" comes in. Zoey would always lag behind. She was much more timid/shy and not a confident dog. And that translated across a wide spectrum of activities.

So toy drive is a short form to say "working drive".

I truly believe that even household "pets" are much happier, more fullfilled if they have some tasks to do. Be that fetching a ball, or retreiving your slippers.

And dogs do so love the great outdoors. A small walk. A visit to the pet store. a visit to a park. There is so much you can do to enrich your dogs life.

[Teresa Ford]

I agree with gemy and Brister. I think training is the most important thing a person can do with and for their dog. A well behaved, obedient, house broken dog, that gets along with people and other animals, is seldom dumped, given up or put to sleep because they are unadoptable. I have seen that even if the owner dies and the dog must be rehomed, almost all well behaved dogs are adoptable, even if they are older and have some health issues.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by gemy

wonderful post, you are wise way beyond your years!

Our gal Zoey was very much like Jackson. She came to us at 7.5 mths old, and liked only sticks. She didn't really know how to "play" with humans. Oh she always wanted to run and chase Magic, who quite frankly if I was out and about he wasn't too interested in doing. What Moms was doing, was she going to throw a toy or need me to do something was very high on his radar.

Gradually, very gradually, she did finally get the concept of retreive, but still for her the grandest fun was chasing Magic as he went for the ball. It is a little harder in multi dog households to train up a dog.

It took Zoey 3 summers to learn to swim. As compared to Razz and Magic one summer.

Razzle came to us much earlier, and he too is very toy driven. It is just easier when the pups are young and come from a good breeder and trainer, to instill toy drive.

But here is where "personality" comes in. Zoey would always lag behind. She was much more timid/shy and not a confident dog. And that translated across a wide spectrum of activities.

So toy drive is a short form to say "working drive".

I truly believe that even household "pets" are much happier, more fullfilled if they have some tasks to do. Be that fetching a ball, or retreiving your slippers.

And dogs do so love the great outdoors. A small walk. A visit to the pet store. a visit to a park. There is so much you can do to enrich your dogs life.

I saw your post after mine, and totally agree!! We are basically saying the same thing in a different way!

But I 10000% agree.

Same thing w/ swimming with Jackson, now he was always into water, so it was already "somewhat" natural to him, however diving in did not just come on his own. It took encouraging. His first summer, he did not dive in ever. Second summer, he begin diving in the pool from a raft. So he would first jump onto a raft, then dive into the pool that way. His third summer, he finally began diving in off the side! It took time, practice, encouragement. If I had just never done anything about it, he probably would not really care about the pool, and definitely wouldn't be diving in. I am so glad I worked on too and encouraged it because it's his fav thing in the world to do and provides him an outlet, and great exercise!

Even with trick training, I enjoy doing tricks where he has to really put his trust and faith into me. Jumping onto my back and staying there, putting his feet on mine and walking, etc, these things mean (to me) that he trusts me enough to do such things. I want him to know he can always trust me to guide him.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Teresa Ford

I agree with gemy and Brister. I think training is the most important thing a person can do with and for their dog. A well behaved, obedient, house broken dog, that gets along with people and other animals, is seldom dumped, given up or put to sleep because they are unadoptable. I have seen that even if the owner dies and the dog must be rehomed, almost all well behaved dogs are adoptable, even if they are older and have some health issues.

Absolutely!

An ill behaved dog is not fun for anyone to be around. I think it's so important from the beginning to start training.

[MishyMish]

Thank you all for your replies! I asked because one of my coworkers has a dog and this dog has behavioral issues.They were saying that it was the personality and hopefully the dog will grow out of it. I initially thought maybe the training isn't good, but they mentioned they had several dogs previously and did not have this issue. So, it made me wonder...

[gemy]

Originally Posted by MishyMish

Thank you all for your replies! I asked because one of my coworkers has a dog and this dog has behavioral issues.They were saying that it was the personality and hopefully the dog will grow out of it. I initially thought maybe the training isn't good, but they mentioned they had several dogs previously and did not have this issue. So, it made me wonder...

This is now getting a tad more specific; but still not specific enough. How old is the dog, what is the exact issue? How often does this issue exhibit? Where, when and with whom?

Frankly if this dog is a young dog, you need to "nip" in the bud this behavioural issue...... unless it is a matter of insecurity and or fear. Dog is afaird to walk outside, dog submissively and or excitedly peeing. Insecurity in a dog may take years to correct. Because you are not correcting insecurity but trying to build security. Actually any age dog, if there is a behavioural issue I think it is on the owner to get the help they need to resolve the issue.

I am not a trainer like Brit and Teresa are, but I do train my dogs and with a trainer for over 7yrs now. But I immediately look to myself if a dog of mine has issues. And ask for help if need be.