What should you expect to find in health warranty and be realistic - YorkieTalk.com Forums

wnalegria · 12-13-2005, 07:45 AM

We look at a lot of health warranties and the double talk and wording. So lets sit down as a group and come up with some basics that folks should loog for when wanting to purchase a puppy. This will also give breeders a chance to say why some things can not be covered and or exluded them from the contract.

I will start out with a exclusion- upright ears. Most of my kids have upright ears by 6 weeks of age. I start trimming at 2-3 and tape. Will they go up and down yes- as they are teething and just because they can. When a baby goes home new parents are told how to keep the hair trimmed on the ear- what can cause them to drop and what to do-tape and how to tape.
Told call if you have any other questions. I do not guarantee upright ears consider it" enviromental" Enviromental meaning- if the new owner does not keep the hair trimmed or tape a dropped ear - the ears may never stand again.

This is something I had control of while in my care- if you the new owner do not keep up the care and grooming involved for those upright ears- you are responsible- not me for the problem.

Do I owe you any money back-no-
Am I a bad breeder because that ear did not stand-no
Is that a recourse for you to bad mouth me- no
Should you be able to get a new puppy- no

Ok that gives us just one starting point and my thought on this issue. Let the fun begin. Lets try and be realistic and come up with a basic guidline to help those looking to a buy a puppy and the health warranty issues.

y0rkieL0ver · 12-13-2005, 08:56 AM

o wow i think this is a great thread idea, kathy. im not a breeder, so i dont really think i can contribute...but i think another good part of the contract to go over would be the health issues- like congenial vs. not congenial...it was very confusing for me when i was tryign to find my yorkie- i was very naive to all the health issues that they could have/be born with.** i know a contract is a contract, not to school you on all the problems, we as owners have to be pro-active in finding alot of those things out on our own through reading [and yorkietalk hehe]but maybe you could clarify it a little? like what problems are grounds for a refund, new puppy, etc. thanks and again, great thread!!!

BamaFan121s · 12-13-2005, 08:57 AM

Ahh...good post. This will be great for me to make sure I have our 'sales agreement' just right before these little angels go to their new homes. I think I've covered everything, but it never hurts to have an outside opinion from an experienced breeder.
1) I guaranteed health/life for 6 mo-specifiying that it would not include complications due from physical injury, disease (from non-vaccination), aka rabies, parvo, etc. Pretty much it was limited to what a vet could rule as a 'genetic disorder.'
2) I stated that genetic deiscrepencies such as over/underbite, floppy ears, color, etc. were NOT guaranteed. (Let me say, there is no history of these in the bloodline.) As well as complications from Hypoglycemia, which new owners are educated on, given information on and given Nutrical w/ directions for use.

Does this sound right? Of course, it is a little more detailed in the ACTUAL agreement, but you get the jist?

Dartprincess · 12-13-2005, 09:02 AM

Kathy you always start the greatest post can wait to see what others have to say.

Carol

txshopper73 · 12-13-2005, 09:08 AM

hmmmmmmmmm...let's see, any genetic problems should be covered...LS, LPs (both LPs). Ears, roached back, no (it's not a health problem).

Ear mites, mange things like that should be covered as with that one kennel. Personally, a pup SHOULD NOT LEAVE THE BREEDER'S CARE UNLESS THE PUP IS 100% PERFECT HEALTH WISE!!!!! Just my opinion. Why should the new owners have to deal with the heart ache of a sick pup?

wnalegria · 12-13-2005, 09:09 AM

It does not matter how old you are- or how long in the tooth- make sure that the writing is clear and precise.

I have a mess going on myself right now- because I took the breeders word.
Wrong. We all need to learn and can discuss all the things from health issues to the actual ownership and rights of the breeder/seller and the owner.

BamaFan121s · 12-13-2005, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txshopper73

hmmmmmmmmm...let's see, any genetic problems should be covered...LS, LPs (both LPs). Ears, roached back, no (it's not a health problem).

Ear mites, mange things like that should be covered as with that one kennel. Personally, a pup SHOULD NOT LEAVE THE BREEDER'S CARE UNLESS THE PUP IS 100% PERFECT HEALTH WISE!!!!! Just my opinion. Why should the new owners have to deal with the heart ache of a sick pup?

Yes...agree. I would never send a pup home if it was sick, be it life threatening or not.

txshopper73 · 12-13-2005, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnalegria

It does not matter how old you are- or how long in the tooth- make sure that the writing is clear and precise.

I have a mess going on myself right now- because I took the breeders word.
Wrong. We all need to learn and can discuss all the things from health issues to the actual ownership and rights of the breeder/seller and the owner.

did I say something wrong?

Twinkie_love · 12-13-2005, 09:17 AM

I am not a breeder but I do know that it is of vital importance for the puppies to stay with their mothers until they are at least 10weeks old. Some breeders and specifically here in Germany do not give out puppies that are younger than 12weeks old.

wnalegria · 12-13-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txshopper73

hmmmmmmmmm...let's see, any genetic problems should be covered...LS, LPs (both LPs). Ears, roached back, no (it's not a health problem).

Ear mites, mange things like that should be covered as with that one kennel. Personally, a pup SHOULD NOT LEAVE THE BREEDER'S CARE UNLESS THE PUP IS 100% PERFECT HEALTH WISE!!!!! Just my opinion. Why should the new owners have to deal with the heart ache of a sick pup?

So lets take this a step further- You want ears covered- how can I cover something that you have not taken care of. LP- how do you cover LP when it is can be caused enriomentally. Sound pup new owner takes it home lets it jump off of high furniture over and over again injures itself with the result being LP- Should I as the breeder be held responsible for this.

TX- you have a litter of puppies will you cover all these things on your new babies.

You have a health certificate from Vet A that states puppy is in good shape- Vet B states that puppy has ear mites. Which vet is correct? How would you handle the situation? What is fair to both parties.

wnalegria · 12-13-2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txshopper73

did I say something wrong?

No not at all you silly goose. I was just saying no matter who wise you think you are (me) you can still step into a pile of manure.

txshopper73 · 12-13-2005, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnalegria

So lets take this a step further- You want ears covered- how can I cover something that you have not taken care of. LP- how do you cover LP when it is can be caused enriomentally. Sound pup new owner takes it home lets it jump off of high furniture over and over again injures itself with the result being LP- Should I as the breeder be held responsible for this.

TX- you have a litter of puppies will you cover all these things on your new babies.

You have a health certificate from Vet A that states puppy is in good shape- Vet B states that puppy has ear mites. Which vet is correct? How would you handle the situation? What is fair to both parties.

No, Kathy, you misread what I put...ears, roached backs are not covered because they will not dampen the health of the dog...it's not a health risk or life threatening...please go back and reread.

wnalegria · 12-13-2005, 09:22 AM

I want all sorts of things to be thrown out on this thread. - look at them from all sides. Discuss all of it. Take what we learn and try and come up with some kind of a guidline that will help everyone in the future. That is my goal for this thread.

txshopper73 · 12-13-2005, 09:25 AM

What about heart murmurs, nervous system problems, shouldn't those be covered?

wnalegria · 12-13-2005, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txshopper73

No, Kathy, you misread what I put...ears, roached backs are not covered because they will not dampen the health of the dog...it's not a health risk or life threatening...please go back and reread.

Sorry- will still go with the question though- I have had folks upset about ears.
That is why I grabbed the ears part- and how many questions we get about them.

If I have a roached back puppy or one with something that I consider a fault -I include it on a line for inclusions. That way no one can come back and say you didn't tell me that my dog only had testicle. This is just a example.

12-13-2005, 07:45 AM	#1
wnalegria Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indianapolis Indiana Posts: 815	What should you expect to find in health warranty and be realistic We look at a lot of health warranties and the double talk and wording. So lets sit down as a group and come up with some basics that folks should loog for when wanting to purchase a puppy. This will also give breeders a chance to say why some things can not be covered and or exluded them from the contract. I will start out with a exclusion- upright ears. Most of my kids have upright ears by 6 weeks of age. I start trimming at 2-3 and tape. Will they go up and down yes- as they are teething and just because they can. When a baby goes home new parents are told how to keep the hair trimmed on the ear- what can cause them to drop and what to do-tape and how to tape. Told call if you have any other questions. I do not guarantee upright ears consider it" enviromental" Enviromental meaning- if the new owner does not keep the hair trimmed or tape a dropped ear - the ears may never stand again. This is something I had control of while in my care- if you the new owner do not keep up the care and grooming involved for those upright ears- you are responsible- not me for the problem. Do I owe you any money back-no- Am I a bad breeder because that ear did not stand-no Is that a recourse for you to bad mouth me- no Should you be able to get a new puppy- no Ok that gives us just one starting point and my thought on this issue. Let the fun begin. Lets try and be realistic and come up with a basic guidline to help those looking to a buy a puppy and the health warranty issues.

12-13-2005, 08:56 AM	#2
y0rkieL0ver Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Medford, Ma Posts: 865	o wow i think this is a great thread idea, kathy. im not a breeder, so i dont really think i can contribute...but i think another good part of the contract to go over would be the health issues- like congenial vs. not congenial...it was very confusing for me when i was tryign to find my yorkie- i was very naive to all the health issues that they could have/be born with.** i know a contract is a contract, not to school you on all the problems, we as owners have to be pro-active in finding alot of those things out on our own through reading [and yorkietalk hehe]but maybe you could clarify it a little? like what problems are grounds for a refund, new puppy, etc. thanks and again, great thread!!! __________________ To eRr is HuMan, To FoRgiVe, CaNiNe Jackie & Sirius

12-13-2005, 09:08 AM	#5
txshopper73 Donating YT 14K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 14,226 Blog Entries: 1	hmmmmmmmmm...let's see, any genetic problems should be covered...LS, LPs (both LPs). Ears, roached back, no (it's not a health problem). Ear mites, mange things like that should be covered as with that one kennel. Personally, a pup SHOULD NOT LEAVE THE BREEDER'S CARE UNLESS THE PUP IS 100% PERFECT HEALTH WISE!!!!! Just my opinion. Why should the new owners have to deal with the heart ache of a sick pup? __________________ As always...JMO (Just My Opinion) Kimberley

12-13-2005, 09:17 AM	#9
Twinkie_love Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 207	I am not a breeder but I do know that it is of vital importance for the puppies to stay with their mothers until they are at least 10weeks old. Some breeders and specifically here in Germany do not give out puppies that are younger than 12weeks old. __________________ Katia & Twinkie

12-13-2005, 09:25 AM	#14
txshopper73 Donating YT 14K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 14,226 Blog Entries: 1	What about heart murmurs, nervous system problems, shouldn't those be covered? __________________ As always...JMO (Just My Opinion) Kimberley

12-13-2005, 08:57 AM	#3
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	Ahh...good post. This will be great for me to make sure I have our 'sales agreement' just right before these little angels go to their new homes. I think I've covered everything, but it never hurts to have an outside opinion from an experienced breeder. 1) I guaranteed health/life for 6 mo-specifiying that it would not include complications due from physical injury, disease (from non-vaccination), aka rabies, parvo, etc. Pretty much it was limited to what a vet could rule as a 'genetic disorder.' 2) I stated that genetic deiscrepencies such as over/underbite, floppy ears, color, etc. were NOT guaranteed. (Let me say, there is no history of these in the bloodline.) As well as complications from Hypoglycemia, which new owners are educated on, given information on and given Nutrical w/ directions for use. Does this sound right? Of course, it is a little more detailed in the ACTUAL agreement, but you get the jist?

12-13-2005, 09:02 AM	#4
Dartprincess Minnie's Mommy Donating YT Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: WA State Posts: 916	Kathy you always start the greatest post can wait to see what others have to say. Carol

12-13-2005, 09:09 AM	#6
wnalegria Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indianapolis Indiana Posts: 815	It does not matter how old you are- or how long in the tooth- make sure that the writing is clear and precise. I have a mess going on myself right now- because I took the breeders word. Wrong. We all need to learn and can discuss all the things from health issues to the actual ownership and rights of the breeder/seller and the owner.

12-13-2005, 09:22 AM	#13
wnalegria Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indianapolis Indiana Posts: 815	I want all sorts of things to be thrown out on this thread. - look at them from all sides. Discuss all of it. Take what we learn and try and come up with some kind of a guidline that will help everyone in the future. That is my goal for this thread.