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07-25-2012, 03:47 AM | #1 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | APHIS - new Regulation Are you Aware? I posted almost one month ago, about a proposed new Federal Regulation. My posts were in the Animal Protection and Welfare and in the Breeders section. I was asked to link this in the General Forum as well. Here is the link to what I posted: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ani...egulation.html If you go there you will links that will take you to the AKC petition, a link which will connect you directly to APSHIS to submit your comment personally, the deadline has been extended till August 2012. The link below is yet another petition, but I thought you (the general pet owning public, might find illuminative what the "small hobby breeders are saying about this bill." https://www.change.org/petitions/u-s...eders-and-more For many folks the issues might seem complex, difficult to understand. Quite simply what is at risk, is the ability of the buying public to be able to purchase a well bred and home raised puppy. I urge you to take some time to read the regulation, to read what others are saying about it, and also to take the time to read Losey's comment on this "proposed" new regulation. The link to Losey's comment is contained with-in the thread in the Animal Protection and Welfare. We need more people to make comments to APHIS - we the general public have a huge voice; if only we would speak up and out.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
Welcome Guest! | |
07-25-2012, 07:15 AM | #2 | |
I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member | I posted on the other thread, but I want to post here too. Please read this bill before you believe what is being written about it. This has happened so many times, and the bill is nothing like people are saying. I've been interested in getting this legislation passed. Gail do you understand that right now if you sell directly to the public or over the internet you need no license, no matter how many dogs you sell? The worst puppy mills are unlicensed facilities. People here are always saying stay away from USDA licensed kennels, they are puppy mills, but they are loads better than the places that sell over the internet. I don’t buy the statement that even if you sell one dog this will affect you. Have you read the actual bill instead of a third party statement about the bill? This will give the USDA the same authoritiy as when breeders sold to pet stores. Commercial breeders have been known to target small breeders and fool them into helping them fight their fight. The site that you linked doesn’t sound like an independent site that explains the bill, it sounds like it’s just propaganda for the commercial lobby. Here’s what the ASPCA says about the bill. USDA Moving to Regulate Internet Sales-Based Puppy Mills May 11, 2012 Quote:
__________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals | |
07-25-2012, 08:47 AM | #3 |
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: England
Posts: 819
| sorry Gemy, I have little energy with which to respond-- I do appreciate your efforts, though. Personally, I don't sell my puppies sight unseen though I don't want to totally rule out the possibility. I will not, however, do it at the cost of subjecting my home to another invasion, disguised as inspection, by untrained, petty tyrants who don't even know themselves what they're enforcing. I'll miss being able to purchase fine dogs sight unseen from reputable breeders I've enjoyed doing business with who are too far away for me to visit in person, as surely many of them will also not want to be subjected to yet more red tape, fees, licensing, and scrutiny. Do read the legislation as it DOES affect many hobby breeders. Do keep an eye on how your government is barging into your homes.
__________________ www.cloverhillyorkies.com |
07-25-2012, 09:11 AM | #4 |
YT Addict Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: waco, texas
Posts: 312
| Interesting situation...not sure what to think |
07-25-2012, 10:15 AM | #5 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | [QUOTE=Nancy1999;3980923]I posted on the other thread, but I want to post here too. Please read this bill before you believe what is being written about it. This has happened so many times, and the bill is nothing like people are saying. I've been interested in getting this legislation passed. (1) Gail do you understand that right now if you sell directly to the public or over the internet you need no license, no matter how many dogs you sell? The worst puppy mills are unlicensed facilities. People here are always saying stay away from USDA licensed kennels, they are puppy mills, but they are loads better than the places that sell over the internet. (4) I don’t buy the statement that even if you sell one dog this will affect you. (2)Have you read the actual bill instead of a third party statement about the bill? This will give the USDA the same authoritiy as when breeders sold to pet stores. Commercial breeders have been known to target small breeders and fool them into helping them fight their fight. (3) The site that you linked doesn’t sound like an independent site that explains the bill, it sounds like it’s just propaganda for the commercial lobby. 1) I do 2) I have 3) Don't know why you say that. To the best of my knowledge it is not run by a commercial lobby. If I find out that it is. I will rescind my recommendation to read this site. 4) From the Bill II. Summary of Major Provisions ‘‘Retail pet stores’’ are not required to obtain a license under the AWA or comply with the AWA regulations and standards. Currently, anyone selling, at retail, the following animals for use as pets are considered retail pet stores: Dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, gerbils, rats, mice, gophers, chinchilla, domestic ferrets, domestic farm animals, birds, and cold-blooded species. This proposed rule would rescind the ‘‘retail pet store’’ status of anyone selling, at retail for use as pets, the animals listed above to buyers who do not physically enter his or her place of business or residence in order to personally observe the animals available for sale prior to purchase and/or to take custody of the animals after purchase. Unless otherwise exempt under the regulations, these entities would be required to obtain a license from APHIS and would become subject to the requirements of the AWA, which include identification of animals and recordkeeping requirements, as well as the following standards: Facilities and operations (including space, structure and construction, waste disposal, heating, ventilation, lighting, and interior surface requirements for indoor and outdoor primary enclosures and housing facilities); animal health and husbandry (including requirements for veterinary care, sanitation and feeding, watering, and separation of animals); and transportation (including specifications for primary enclosures, primary conveyances, terminal facilities, and feeding, watering, care, and handling of animals in transit). ] Please see highlighted items Now Nancy, I was alerted to this "new regulation" by three very reputable Rare Breeders. Asking for my help if after review of the legislation I thought that either it was a) a clear and present danger to hobby breeders b) ineffective c) cost prohibitive and d) would actually do one whit to curb actual puppy mills. A while ago I read the requirements for Kennels, and I was appalled. First and foremost in my mind, VERY FEW PUPPIES IF ANY, should be raised outside in kennels. It is poppycock. Dogs are in the main part destined to live in residential homes, and that is exactly where they should be brought up. I would like to see the demise of ALL COMMERCIAL KENNELS and PUPPY MILLS and BYBERS. But then where would we be? Empty rescues, shelters? Ummmm. I wonder. Now I have a question for you; have you read the Losey article? It is linked in the Animal Protection and Welfare thread. I am going to ask a very basic question akin to ; The Emperor's New Clothes (remember that story), why if you want to STOP internet selling of puppies from suspected Puppy Mills, are you NOT looking at an Internet solution? IS the answer this Regulation , OR is it more importantly, EDUCATION. Education of the buying public. Now back to this proposed regulation. Four Breeding Bitches? I asked on my comment to them What is the Definiton of a breeding Bitch? Oh wow, just an unspayed female? How damaging. There are females we will retire from breeding, and NOT SPAY due to health risks surmounting any benefit. There are puppy females who are too young for breeding, too young for placement. In any given month we may have a whole lot more than 4 unspayed Bitches in the house. So what do you want me the hobby breeder to do with my beautiful 5 yr old bitch who I've retired from breeding, can't spay but want to keep her in the only home she has ever known? Remember I will work with my breed for their lifetime. I might still be working with her for her Utility Title or Rescue work. With the Rare breeds and other breeds I know for sure, but particularly the RAre Breeds we network constantly over the internet. Post pics, crow and brag about our accomplishments, show litters, house, training areas, meet each other at shows. Remember many of us may travel 1000 miles or so to get to a show. Oftentimes when at shows, we will purchase a puppy from each other. We have already done the pedigree research, and in this environment, we get to see, to feel, to touch, to watch the movement of the puppy we are interested in. Or we are examining the studs, and bitches that do come to the Nationals or other big shows. The maybe over the phone or internet we arrange the purchase of same. I don't want my ability to purchase a top quality dog to be decimated by this "ruling". We are few enough breeders in North America as is!. I respect your opinion Nancy, as I hope you do mine;maybe we see things through different lenses.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
07-25-2012, 10:54 AM | #6 | |
Rosehill Yorkies Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 9,462
| Quote:
This terrifies the daylights out of me. Does this bring to mind "gestapo" or "Schutzstaffel"? I am still transfixed, stupefied, amazed that this happened to you, a respected breeder.....so scary!!!!!!! | |
07-25-2012, 12:28 PM | #7 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | [QUOTE=Nancy1999;3980923]I posted on the other thread, but I want to post here too. Please read this bill before you believe what is being written about it. This has happened so many times, and the bill is nothing like people are saying. I've been interested in getting this legislation passed. Gail do you understand that right now if you sell directly to the public or over the internet you need no license, no matter how many dogs you sell? The worst puppy mills are unlicensed facilities. People here are always saying stay away from USDA licensed kennels, they are puppy mills, but they are loads better than the places that sell over the internet. I don’t buy the statement that even if you sell one dog this will affect you. Have you read the actual bill instead of a third party statement about the bill? This will give the USDA the same authoritiy as when breeders sold to pet stores. Commercial breeders have been known to target small breeders and fool them into helping them fight their fight. The site that you linked doesn’t sound like an independent site that explains the bill, it sounds like it’s just propaganda for the commercial lobby. Here’s what the ASPCA says about the bill. USDA Moving to Regulate Internet Sales-Based Puppy Mills May 11, 2012 If one of you breeders are worried about not passing a USDA tests, you need to read more about their requirements, their minimum requirements are very lax. Kennels need to be a certain minimum size with no rusty prods poking through and things like that. Don't let Please post the link for USDA tests. Sadly my internet skills have gone to their website and have been unable to find those requirement on a simple search for them
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
07-25-2012, 12:49 PM | #8 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Where did you read the term 4 breeding bitches? If it's from the actual bill the definition of a breeding bitch should be given. If it's from another site, the number may be wrong.[/QUOTE] Here you go; just one mention of it in The Regulation Finally, as noted previously, we are proposing to amend § 2.1(a)(3)(iii) to increase from three to four the number of breeding female dogs, cats, and/or small exotic or wild mammals that a person may maintain on his or her premises and be exempt from licensing and inspection requirements.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
07-25-2012, 01:08 PM | #9 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Bump for all
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
07-26-2012, 09:32 AM | #10 | |
I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member | Maybe this will answer your questions: Quote:
__________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals Last edited by Nancy1999; 07-26-2012 at 09:35 AM. | |
07-26-2012, 09:32 AM | #11 | |
I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member | Continued from above: Quote:
__________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals Last edited by Nancy1999; 07-26-2012 at 09:37 AM. | |
07-26-2012, 11:06 AM | #12 |
YT Addict Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: waco, texas
Posts: 312
| Sounds good and proper to me, Nancy. |
07-26-2012, 11:10 AM | #13 |
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker | What does "sight unseen" mean I'd like to understand that a little more, I get the Internet sales and all would this also mean that breeders can no longer ship their puppies to their new owners? Just wondering
__________________ Carla & Jasper R.I.P. JoJo |
07-26-2012, 11:21 AM | #14 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Well breeders should still be able to ship puppies to new owners. This regulation is looking at requiring licensing for breeders who have more than four intact bitches, and wish to sell their puppies on the internet to people who can not travel to their homes to physcially see the puppies.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
07-28-2012, 04:51 PM | #15 | |
Rosehill Yorkies Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 9,462
| Quote:
Last edited by Yorkiemom1; 07-28-2012 at 04:52 PM. | |
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