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03-07-2015, 01:20 PM | #301 |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,448
| Uh, I don't think mammary tumors are rare in dogs. While 50% are cancerous I see a LOT of them in rescue. Not basing this on any article or study....just saying what I see a lot of. I do believe there is zero risk of mammary tumors in a dog that is spayed before her first heat.
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03-07-2015, 03:01 PM | #302 | |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
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__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! | |
03-07-2015, 03:26 PM | #303 |
T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England
Posts: 9,816
| My friend's dog had a mammary tumor from not spaying her. $5,000 and the dog has had complications from palladia therapy and the cancer itself. Lucky for the dog she has an amazing owner. She apologizes to her daily for being ignorant and not spaying her. It's the real life stories like this that paint a more realistic picture than someone online giving me a interpretation/slanted view of "research."
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03-07-2015, 03:35 PM | #304 | |
Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md
Posts: 23,247
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__________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart! | |
03-07-2015, 03:48 PM | #305 | |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
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03-07-2015, 03:52 PM | #306 | |
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REal life stories are all fine n good and are very sad, but they are anecdoctal , but research looks or should look at a large sample size. Now here is one such study out of Sweden, you will recall that Sweden does not allow s+n unless for medical reasons: Breed variations in the incidence of pyometra and mammary tumours i... - PubMed - NCBI This study shows a rather large cross section of dogs - info gleaned from I believe an Insurance company. It shows a higher rate of both mammary cancers and pyrometra than I have seen in North American studies. And as the abstract was only available to me, I don't know if that study only looked at 2 health concerns. Again the decision to s+n should be a well thought out one, taking into account the breed you own, your particular dog and a comprehensive understanding of all risks vs benefits.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 | |
03-07-2015, 03:59 PM | #307 |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,448
| Canine Mammary Tumors | College of Veterinary Medicine From the above link: Canine Mammary Tumors Mammary tumors are extremely common in dogs; approximately 50% of them are malignant. Mammary tumors are more common in intact than in spayed females; in fact spaying before the first or second heat cycle significantly reduces the risk of developing mammary tumors. Median age on presentation is 10 to 11 years. Dogs fed a high-fat diet or overweight at 1 year age are at increase risk of developing mammary tumors. Appropriate early treatment, even if the tumor is malignant, is often curative.
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03-07-2015, 04:01 PM | #308 |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,448
| https://www.acvs.org/small-animal/mammary-tumors From the above link: Mammary tumors are more common in female dogs that are either not spayed or were spayed after 2 years of age. The risk of a dog developing a mammary tumor is 0.5% if spayed before their first heat (approximately 6 months of age), 8% after their first heat, and 26% after their second heat. Cats spayed before 6 months of age have a 7-times reduced risk of developing mammary cancer and spaying at any age reduces the risk of mammary tumors by 40% to 60% in cats.
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03-07-2015, 04:06 PM | #309 |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,448
| I have thought it all out well and have spayed/neutered every dog I own at the earliest age I could. Many were already adults when they came to me. For the life of me I don't understand people sitting on an online forum encouraging people to ignore the facts that are already known and put their dogs at risk. I also don't understand with all of the oopsie pregnancies we see on this forum, how someone would continue to encourage people to leave their pups intact. I suppose it goes with the old: To each his own...and each has his/her opinion. Anecdotal you say? Yes, I believe that most of this anti spay/neuter is a bit on the anecdotal side. The research out there is not as convincing as previous research that encourages it.
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03-07-2015, 04:08 PM | #310 | |
T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England
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03-07-2015, 08:46 PM | #311 | |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Urbana, IL USA
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"In all breeds, the overall proportion of the bitches that developed disease by 10 years of age was for pyometra 19%, MTs 13%, and either or both of two diseases 30%" A 30 percent chance of developing pyometra or mammary tumors in unspayed dogs seems like an awfully high risk to take, unless there are factors that counterbalance the risk. The abstract doesn't give the data for Yorkies, but if the rate is anywhere near 30%, that seems like a strong argument for spaying before first heat. If I have time, I'll try to check out the full text of this article on Monday and I'll let you know if it has data specific to Yorkies. | |
03-08-2015, 11:53 AM | #312 | |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Quote:
Thanks Phil that would be good if you can do that. Yes I read the summation but also the comments about understanding the variability of mammary cancer/pyrometra by breed. You will recall with the USA Viszla study that the incident rate was surprisingly very low on female Viszlas... I also wonder what the #1 cause of death is in Sweden; if it is the same as in North America with all cancer being #1?
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 | |
03-09-2015, 12:13 AM | #313 |
aka ♥SquishyFace♥ Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: n/a
Posts: 1,875
| Didn't want to post but I feel compelled - science is my drug Research does not seek to verify what we want to or wish to believe. Sometimes, truths are not what we thought they were because our truths have been handed down to us from society. Science does not take sides with our collective consciousness. Emotively, is it true that MOST pet owners are completely unequipped with the knowledge to responsibly deal with an intact animal? I think - yes. Scientifically, should ALL animals be spayed/neutered because it is good for them? In the absence of owners, I think - No. There is just no way to justify this scientifically. Evolution does not give females mammary glands so that the majority of them suffer from cancer. That would be anathema to reproduction so cannot be the truth, as a whole, applicable to all animals and all breeds. Stats online are ok as guides but they are by no means complete and they are by no means unbiased. I would use anything I found online with extreme caution. If anyone wants to know how to access 'real' research, they can contact me. Access usually involves a membership to an educational body or a fee. Pet owners, which include gemy, all make good points here which we should all consider. However, let us begin by admitting that none of us know everything and there is no one-size-fits all approach to all situations. It should not be an 'us and them' debate. Science doesn't have friends. That's why it is a perfect occupation for me. I'm a loner Last edited by SirTeddykins; 03-09-2015 at 12:15 AM. |
03-09-2015, 05:28 AM | #314 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Marion, IN
Posts: 66
| When I lived on the farm I had Bernese Mountain Dogs. Two males and two females, not all at the same time. None were spayed/neutered. The Bernese is prone to Osteosarcoma, and I did not want to increase the risk. I never had a problem. My Sam (my true heart dog) never marked, never tried to roam. Twice a year he did what I called his Tweety Bird. He'd whine and it sounded just like a bird. LOL We did the crate/rotate while the girls were in heat and just didn't have any trouble. The Bernese has a short lifespan anyway, 6-9 years, and I wanted to keep them as long as possible. Sam developed problems with his hips at the age of 5, and died a year later of bloat. The girls started having hip problems at about the same age. George never had a hip problem. This is a picture of my Sammy.
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03-09-2015, 07:17 AM | #315 | |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Urbana, IL USA
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Here are the data for Yorkies from Table 1: Table 1: Breed, proportion (derived from Cox proportional hazards regression without independent variables) of bitches that developed disease, rank, and numbers of cases in different breeds that by the age of 10 years had developed pyometra (P), mammary tumours (MTs), and either or both of pyometra or MTs. Breed: Yorkshire Terrier Pyometra %, (number): 21% (n=157) Mammary Tumors %, (number): 25% (n=176) Pyometra or Mammary Tumors %, (number): 39% (n=301) Total female Yorkshire Terriers in study: 1959 The percentages indicated are quite high in Yorkshire Terriers. I will email you a copy of the whole study so you can read it in greater detail. | |
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