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Old 08-23-2011, 08:05 PM   #1
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Default Tips to help an anxious personality?

Our little Molly is 2.5 years old, we got her when she was 8 weeks old and have provided her with a loving environment all along. There is no history of abuse or anything since we got her so young, so I cannot figure out why she is always so anxious. She startles at everything, barks at every noise, cowers if a large dog says hello to her, and is just generally scared of "life". She is very loving and very attached, and I make sure never to comfort her when she displays these behaviors (I don't want to reinforce them). When we got her she spent the majority of the first two months under our couch and was deathly afraid of my husband (she now has grown to adore him). In general the best way to describe it is that she is "insecure" and needs some self confidence to be at ease with the world around her.

She is getting spayed on Monday, I am wondering if this might help calm her a little? Other than than I was wondering if anyone else has some tips to help calm her and help her gain some confidence?
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:19 PM   #2
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Maybe she is just very attached to you and your her alpha. She just wants her pack (you) to keep her safe out of your territory (property). She might just think it's the other dog territory and the dog feels like a threat. Or the noises scare her and she is trying to scare it.
Hope I helped.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:25 PM   #3
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I have a similar issue. Kaji is 3 and scared of his own shadow. However, I've only had him since he was 1. What I am trying to do is expose him to everything I can, and it all has to be a super positive experience. He's gotten better over the years, and has his favorite places, people, and play mates. This includes much larger dogs. I just keep trying. My dad gets mad at me all the time because Kaji is stressed the first 15-20 mins of any trip. To me, that is a huge improvement! He use to be afraid the entire trip, and slowly has learned to relax. Not completely, but we're still working on it.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:33 PM   #4
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Bailey actually used to be afraid of everything and pee if she heard thunder (She is still deathly afraid of storms). She used to be afraid of all dogs. Now she is a jerk! She hates small dogs, males that aren't fixed, and females (all females). But she is best friends with a neutered male Golden Retriever named Yogi, a neutered male Black Lab (I think) named Guinness, and a neutered Chocolate Lab named ...idk he was outside when I was walking her... So it still might pass. Bailey came over her fear of big dogs and small dogs at age 2 and is now just mean. She is also not nearly as afraid of thunder storms.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:53 AM   #5
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I have never had a problem like this with my Dogs. I only do one thing that may cause mine to be rather "brave".

One of the "encouraged" activities is that when they are young, I intentionally coax them to chase the Squirrels. Verbal comments like "sick um", to get them going. It doesn't take many of those, and they know they're "supposed" to chase those little guys. Fortunately (for the Squirrels) Yorkies aren't known for their speed.

I think this may...
Give them a sense of territory.
Encourage their protectiveness of me and that space.
Enjoy the responsibility of actively participating in a Pack function.
Is great exercise for them.
Hones (to some extent) their Hunting instincts.

MY Female Becca (1 yo now) arrived and was very docile. Not quite as bad as Molly, but pretty close. NOW, she's the first one out of the Doggy Door, and save for the speed challenge, she'd be eating Squirrel every day !
In addition to that, she joins my Male Sneakers in monitoring the property from their views from the second floor, and frequently make a dash out to the yard, to "protect" it from a viscous Cat or whatever.

So, all in all, I think that "bravery" is learned, and if you don't encourage them to use their natural instincts like that, then it's possible that they'll be like that forever. I don't get a chance to observe each "charge" they make, but when I see either of them really "putting out" to get that done, I praise them generously.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:40 AM   #6
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SWHouston don't be surprized if you get bashed for your 'pack mentality'. Like you I think dogs are and should be allowed to be dogs. I have been put down for my pack mentality. I love my Yorkies, but realize they are not little fur people. I have trained many dogs have worked with abused, abandoned, and damaged rescues. But then, a lot of people hate Cesar Millan too.
JVBD Hi, I hope this might help you with your little girl Molly.
I do believe some dogs have a form of canine automatism or are brain damaged, even retarded from lack of oxygen during birth. I doubt if this is why your dog is fearful. Her behavior sounds like a common fear reaction.
Our human instinct is to cuddle and murmur comforting words, when a child is frightened. This does not work with dogs and most of the time it makes fears worse. We tend to keep our dogs dependant puppies forever. That is ok, they do not have to grow up and hunt for survival. We really will always take care of them. Most dogs look to us for clues on how to deal with life.
Fearful Puppies can be desensitzed.
I set up meetings when teaching puppies the proper way to respond to big/ other dogs. The trick is for the person to be calm and relaxed. This is a 3 person exercise. I have friends that have large dogs. I have one come over and walk their dog on a leash. I am walking the puppy. The puppy's owner should greet the owner and big dog. Pet the sitting big dog and chat for a moment. I walk the puppy to their owner and hand them the leash. The owner ignores the puppy and continues to chat . You can only do this if the big dog is well trained and calm. We repeat this exercise over a two week period with different dogs in class. Another thing when a dog is fearful their tail goes down or is tucked . When your dog gets fearful, stand up tall and act big so that they see you are not afraid. Try to desensitize them to the things they are afraid of in a safe calm way. I hope this helps.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:54 AM   #7
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Default I feel your pain

My Sophie is the same way. She shies away from peoples hands that reach out to her and I KNOW she has never been hit. I try to encourage people to bring their hands up from under her chin if they want to pet her and she does a bit better. She shakes in new experiences or loud noises but goes to work with me everyday so she isn't an isolated pup. We got a second Yorkie her size who is braver and she has learned some from her. She has other dogs that are bigger in our family and she is a fool for them. Loves them all, but barks at every noise, voices she hears and barks after people when they leave the room. I have just decided to love her like she is and try to ease her fears as much as I can. I do so hate that she is scared so much.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:32 PM   #8
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I like what the other poster said, I feel your pain! I also believe that as much as I love them, they are little dogs (terriers) and some traits you can't take away from them...
As Bubbles has gotton older, more problems are apparant. She is OCD, in addition to being a scardy cat. I know whatever it was, it was inborn, or happended to her during birth. I have tried and tried to help her get past it.

When they go out for a walk, while I stand with the leash in my hand, she must go around the chair 3 times. Always. 3 times. If she cannot go round 3 times, she will not go.
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teresa Ford View Post
SWHouston don't be surprized if you get bashed for your 'pack mentality'. Like you I think dogs are and should be allowed to be dogs. I have been put down for my pack mentality. I love my Yorkies, but realize they are not little fur people. I have trained many dogs have worked with abused, abandoned, and damaged rescues. But then, a lot of people hate Cesar Millan too.
I don't think it's necessarily the "pack mentality" that people hate. It's what comes along with... words like "alpha" and "dominance" which are WAY over-used by people who don't know what they are talking about. Especially when the dominance "myth" was de-bunked by the people who CREATED the theory who studied wolves that were not living in the wild.

My dog is probably the most "doggy dog" that I know. He rolls around in the dirt, he eats bugs, he chews on sticks, he goes swimming happily, he goes hiking, he runs happily through grassy fields, he romps around dog parks, he treks through the snow, he wrestles, the list goes on and on.

However, I do not treat him like he is... below me. I'm not above him, per say. I am so much more than his "pack leader". But see, that word can be taken in the wrong context, too. Some can simply be calling their house of 5 dogs by saying "they are my pack!" but then some could use it in a degrading way too. He is my family and, yeah, I consider myself to be more like a mom than an alpha pack with a "pecking order". Dogs were domesticated to work with US, with people. Yes, they may be biologically the same as wolves, but they are NOT wolves and were each specifically bred for a purpose.

I think that is my issue with people thinking they have to dominant their dogs. I see it all the time at the dog park, people who have excited dogs and then they start kicking them in their sides, or rolling them on the back, or screaming at them and it gets NOTHING accomplished. I like Cesar, I don't agree with all of his methods, but I appreciate what he has done. But unfortunately, his methods are specifically "not to be tried at home" but everyone does it anyways and I think it creates MORE problem in dogs rather than helping the general public. Too many people mistake "calm submissive" for "I'm angry and frustrated at my dog so I'm going to alpha roll him". And yeah, I don't like to see his training methods suggested to new owners who have young innocent puppies with problems that could be VERY easily solved without force or dominance.

Dogs are MUCH more capable than a lot of people give them credit for. And, in fact, was recently proven that they have the mental capability of a toddler and display the same emotions, etc. And I just think too many people think of them as "oh it's just a dog" when that's simply not the case. Not saying or implying you think this way... but it's something I've noticed with those who feel the need to "dominate" their dog.
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:38 PM   #10
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But, I wanted to address the issue of anxious and anxiety too. It's a tough thing to deal with with dogs.

Jackson was always pretty shy. I wouldn't say "fearful" but very shy. He's gotten sooo much better. He is almost 3 years old now and since I got him, I have been exposing him to all new sights, sounds and smells.

He used to NEVER go up to random people. It just never crossed his mind and if someone reached down to pet him, he'd often shy away. I started always keeping treats in my pockets and making every moment a training session. We'd go into our local pet store and he used to never let the employees pet him, now he even will go up to them and smell them without them asking. I'd also take him to my little cousins baseball games where there were lots of children who wanted to pet him. I had kids give him treats, etc. After about 5 games, he became very comfortable. We started slow though -- I didn't let kids just bombard him. First, I started treating him just for seeing all the kids and being calm, etc. I've been so very proud of him lately. He has wonderful manners and enjoys a good petting from a stranger now so long as you are calm and don't rush up to him. He really loves children (he has always loved my young siblings) but now it's turned to all children. He's really just a "sweet" dog. I think, had no one ever worked with him or exposed him to new things, he may be a basket case of a dog.

Also, clicker training really boosted his confidence. He LOVES to perform his tricks for strangers and kids, etc. It really helps him out when he knows how to do something and feels confident doing it and then gets treats in return for it. He now enjoys being in a circle full of kids and doing tricks (with my direction), etc. Agility classes were also a huge help. I noticed a big difference after taking the class.

I wouldn't say he was ever OVERLY anxious or fearful of anything. So this advice is coming from someone who has not dealt with an extremely fearful dog before, but a shy one.
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:42 PM   #11
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I'm glad I waited to post. Your words are better than mine. Even though Kaji is a scare little dog, and a happily pampered pooch, I try really hard to let him be a dog too. He gets praised for barking, and stopping. We go hiking in the mountains, and at the trails in the park. He eats grass, much to my dismay. He rolls around in super stinky stuff, and I don't get mad. He just gets a bath afterward. we go to the beach, the mall, and we've taken airplane rides.

All of the above would not be possible if I tried to be "dominant" over him. I don't know how to do it properly, and I think I'd end up being mean. I don't cuddle him either when he's afraid. I put him in a sit stay, and wait for the scary bike to pass, and gradually we've worked up to him being able to walk past a bike. It took us a while, but we got there.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:29 PM   #12
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People come with all kinds of personality types and issues and while a dog is not nearly as complex as a human there are many things that can effect the stability of a dog's personality. It can be a genetic issue of bad breeding or just a bad gene that popped up in the pool. There can be things that happened to the pup during it's first weeks of life. Anyone who has observed a litter grow and develop can see that there is a pecking order in a litter and each puppy has it's own distinct personality. A more dominant member of the litter may bully a less aggressive pup and cause it to be even more submissive and insecure. Some issues can be fixed with proper training by a person who knows how to deal with fear issues and some problems just remain and although there are things you can do to help the situation there has to be some acceptance that this is the dogs personality.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:36 PM   #13
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There are supposed to be tranquilizers you can get from the vet for this situation of never being able to be calm and secure. It is my next option. I wonder has anyone here at YT experienced in them and can give some advice to those of us with an insecure doggie like the OP?
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Britster View Post
I don't think it's necessarily the "pack mentality" that people hate. It's what comes along with... words like "alpha" and "dominance" which are WAY over-used by people who don't know what they are talking about. Especially when the dominance "myth" was de-bunked by the people who CREATED the theory who studied wolves that were not living in the wild.

My dog is probably the most "doggy dog" that I know. He rolls around in the dirt, he eats bugs, he chews on sticks, he goes swimming happily, he goes hiking, he runs happily through grassy fields, he romps around dog parks, he treks through the snow, he wrestles, the list goes on and on.

However, I do not treat him like he is... below me. I'm not above him, per say. I am so much more than his "pack leader". But see, that word can be taken in the wrong context, too. Some can simply be calling their house of 5 dogs by saying "they are my pack!" but then some could use it in a degrading way too. He is my family and, yeah, I consider myself to be more like a mom than an alpha pack with a "pecking order". Dogs were domesticated to work with US, with people. Yes, they may be biologically the same as wolves, but they are NOT wolves and were each specifically bred for a purpose.

I think that is my issue with people thinking they have to dominant their dogs. I see it all the time at the dog park, people who have excited dogs and then they start kicking them in their sides, or rolling them on the back, or screaming at them and it gets NOTHING accomplished. I like Cesar, I don't agree with all of his methods, but I appreciate what he has done. But unfortunately, his methods are specifically "not to be tried at home" but everyone does it anyways and I think it creates MORE problem in dogs rather than helping the general public. Too many people mistake "calm submissive" for "I'm angry and frustrated at my dog so I'm going to alpha roll him". And yeah, I don't like to see his training methods suggested to new owners who have young innocent puppies with problems that could be VERY easily solved without force or dominance.

Dogs are MUCH more capable than a lot of people give them credit for. And, in fact, was recently proven that they have the mental capability of a toddler and display the same emotions, etc. And I just think too many people think of them as "oh it's just a dog" when that's simply not the case. Not saying or implying you think this way... but it's something I've noticed with those who feel the need to "dominate" their dog.
I agree that inexperienced people do not know how to train dogs. They may think because they read a book or watch a TV show, they can do what the professional does. That is like trying to make a wedding dress without learning to sew. Training our own dog does not always come naturaly either. That is why many of us take our dogs to classes or pay a professional to help us.
In Training, being the pack leader (PL) has nothing to do with dogs rolling in ucky stuff, chasing squirrels, digging holes or barking. Pack leader simply means the person (or people) who is responsible for the well being of the family. The PL sets the rules and gives discipline when it is needed. By the word discipline, understand I mean only gentle correction, not physical punishment. For example you are PL and you tell your children and pets 'You must not run out into the street.' The child or puppy may not know why you don't want them to do this. When the child runs out of the yard and into the street. You the PL take them by the hand and bring them back and talk to them about cars and so on, you may even give them a time out. When your puppy bolts ahead and into the street the PL returns the puppy to the safe spot and has them sit and wait until it is safe to cross. PL repeats the leson as needed to teach this safty rule.
I absolutely agree that dogs are very smart and think they are very much like having a toddler. Everyone is not equal in a family. Toddlers have to be cared for by parents. Parents will decide where the child sleeps, what they eat, and when they need to go to the doctor.
I think dogs are happiest when the PL takes care of them, they feel safe. Dogs like have a job to do, maybe it is barking at the trash truck and chasing birds away from the garden. Dogs like to know where their place in the family is. Some may not agree with me on this, but I firmly believe dogs need to know all people in their pack, even tiny babies are Pack Leaders. Dog can not discipline people. Dogs can disipline other pets in their family (pack). A responsible parent /PL (pack leader) would not leave two young children unsupervised. Dogs and young children should not be left alone. A young child doesn't pay attention to where they sit. Very young children do not understand hitting with toys hurt and it is not acceptable.
Every time we add a new family member, be it a kitty, baby, new puppy or a grandma moves in. Things change, nothing will ever be the same again. Maybe we teach the doggies a new job, like bringing Grandma her slippers and a few other rules change, like doggies have to get out of the way, when she is using her walker. Mentally healthy dogs can adapt to new situations and changes. I would rather change a few rules so Grandma doesn't trip over the dog, possibily hurting them both.
My sister had a beautiful, well trained, loving, large, Lab mix dog named Ned. When my niece Amber was a newborn she was sleeping in a cradle in my sisters bedroom. My sister got up to use the bathroom. She heard the baby cry, so she hurried up and was washing her hands, when she heard a crash. Ned had jumped on the cradle, I am positive he was trying to see what was wrong with the baby. Thank God Amber landed on thick carpet and she was fine, hungry but fine. Sis turned on the lights to check the baby who was screaming and crying. Ned was barking,(Probably for some one to fix the crying baby.) My sister's husband jerked awake, sure that something awful was happening to his wife or new baby and shouted 'What is going on ?!' Poor Ned hid every time the baby cried after that and avoided my sisters bedroom for years. Funny now 31 years later, not so funny when it happened. The baby was not hurt.
I also agree that the word dominant and alpha can and often is, used incorrectly pertaining to modern training methods. When I use the word alpha, I mean the pack leader/ the responsible adult. If I use the word dominate it is usually referring to how dogs behave, when they are trying to prove who is the top dog.
Hope this clarifies my use of pack leader. I cherish my Yorkies and they are doggy dogs too. Gracie rolls in ucky stuff, Rubin chases squirrels. Abba digs holes and chases birds. Ginny Joy barks at the kitty next door. That is just part of being a happy dog. Gracie is a rescue as most of you know. She was traumatized, fearful, a biter, not pottie trained, refused to be touched or groomed. She barked so much the second family who had her, thought she would never be a good dog. She has made tremendous progress. She is well behaved, secure enough to be the alpha doggie in this home, and Princess Gracie is spoiled with lots of love and praise. Guess who she sleeps with ? Yes the pack leader me.
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:23 AM   #15
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I agree that inexperienced people do not know how to train dogs. They may think because they read a book or watch a TV show, they can do what the professional does. That is like trying to make a wedding dress without learning to sew. Training our own dog does not always come naturaly either. That is why many of us take our dogs to classes or pay a professional to help us.
In Training, being the pack leader (PL) has nothing to do with dogs rolling in ucky stuff, chasing squirrels, digging holes or barking. Pack leader simply means the person (or people) who is responsible for the well being of the family.
I think you mis-understood the point I was trying to make with that. You implied that people who don't treat their dogs like a "pack member" or who don't believe to be their dogs pack leader don't allow their dogs to be dogs.

Quote:
SWHouston don't be surprized if you get bashed for your 'pack mentality'. Like you I think dogs are and should be allowed to be dogs.
So just because I do not believe in the alpha theory, I don't think dogs should be allowed to be dogs? That is how I took it. And that is why I explained all the "doggy" things my dog does.

The original alpha/dominance model was born out of short-term studies of wolf packs done in the 1940s. These were the first studies of their kind. These studies were a good start, but later research has essentially disproved most of the findings. There were three major flaws in these studies:
These were short-term studies, so the researchers concentrated on the most obvious, overt parts of wolf life, such as hunting. The studies are therefore unrepresentative -- drawing conclusions about "wolf behavior" based on about 1% of wolf life.
The studies observed what are now known to be ritualistic displays and misinterpreted them. Unfortunately, this is where the bulk of the "dominance model" comes from, and though the information has been soundly disproved, it still thrives in the dog training mythos.
ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory
Debunking Dominance Theory | Karen Pryor Clickertraining

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonli...0statement.pdf

It's just that it amazes me (and I used to believe in this theory, also, so keep that in mind that I have an 'awakening' if you will) that the people who CREATED the dominance theory have since DISPROVED it and said they were wrong. Yet it's still used so often.
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