Biwer,chocolate,golden etc

[Phoebe_m]

They are pure yorkies or they are "hybrids" ? I mean mix dogs

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by Phoebe_m

They are pure yorkies or they are "hybrids" ? I mean mix dogs

Biewer are not yorkies. According to the Biewer Club of America and the DNA blood testing results it was found they are not Yorkies. Biewer Club want to have them recognized as Biewer Terriers. Whether this will happen in our lifetime is another matter as it is a long process.
Golden Yorkies are ones born black and tan. As they get older and mature the tan furnishing colour can run into the black saddle giving it a gold colour but when you clip the coat short or lift the hair where the blue saddle is you will see blue saddle at the skin level This is a fault, a reputable breeder will not keep this for breeding purposes.
Ones born gold do not look like yorkies usually and I believe would be mixes as yorkies do not carry the gene for solid colour.
There is a chocolate colour that will exhibit itself if the pup has picked up a recessive gene from each parent. Also not a desirable colour, reputable breeders would not breed for this, a pup with this colour would be sold for pet, spay neuter.
There likely will be arguments come up from those who are not in agreement with what I have said. HOwever, keep in mind when you decide for yourself what is right and wrong, breed standard says blue saddle with tan furnishings. That is what a reputable breeder will breed for and uphold in this breed, not breed for wrong colours. No reputable purebred breeder of any breed would ever breed for wrong type, colour, size that sort of thing.
And no, wrong colour is not 'culled' as in put to sleep, they are sold for pet usually at much less a price. Reputable breeders I know will give for example a chocolate puppy if they happen to get one, to a friend that wants a small dog or sell for less than half the usual price of a yorkie pet pup.
The problem with the Biewer or parti colour is yes NOW they can be DNA tested for various things however keep in mind also these have been around over 20 years. At the time they first showed up there was not the DNA testing available in the last few years. What actually went on over 20 years ago could not be tested for so the claim NOW from some is that they are from registered normal colour yorkies. But DNA will not tell you what happened in a mating 20 years ago or if for sure another breed was or was not involved.
Again the argument can go around in circles and has done on many occasions on this forum. The bottom line in my opinion, is which breeders are actually breeding and upholding the breed standard to what a Yorkie is supposed to look like -- or are they not doing that?

[Pinehaven]

I don't know if the claims made by the Biewer Terrier club would be such a good example of biewers not being purebred YT, due to the various scandals that have erupted within that club but the other Biewer clubs do feel that the Biewers are pure bred yorkshire terriers with the piebald gene.

The YT breed standard was made long before there was clear understanding on genetics and how recessive genes work. The parti, chocolate and gold colors have been seen in the breed since it's beginning and documented in early writings. Also noted in these early books from the late 1800 – mid 1900's indicates that it was common practice to dispose of and destroy incorrect coloring within litters. It happened in the old days and I've heard of this practice still going on even within the last 10 years.

The Yorkshire terrier breed began from dogs with no heritage and no recorded blood lines. The dogs used in the makeup of this breed carried unknown genes for other colors. The maltese has been noted since the beginning of the breed, as being one of the dogs thought to be used in the breeds makeup. The Maltese displays the maximum expression of the parti gene. Numerous, numerous early historical writings about the YT breed say this, including early AKC publications like my 1945 “The Complete Book of Dog” which is a book of the different AKC breeds published for AKC and the content of each breed has been drawn up by the breeds club. I'm not sure what year the YT breed club changed their thoughts that the Maltese was used in the breeds make up but until at least the mid 1900's they felt the maltese was one of the dogs used. See attached.

The skye also thought to have been used in the makeup, come in “fawn” coloring which is a golden coat with some black hairs intermingled in the coat. This can be seen on this Skye terrier breeders webiste portrees It shows some black puppies and some that are dark gold with black hairs most noticeable seen along the topline. Many of the Golden colored yorkies are actually “fawn” or sable in color. Please see photos of 2 different fawn colored Yorkies owned by me.

The waterside terrier is now thought by the YT club to be one of the 3 breeds used in the make up of the YT breed. The Waterside is by the Otterhound and in addition to black and tan coloring, the Otterhounds come in parti, chocolate and golden!

There are Yorkshire terriers that are born traditional colored black and tan who “run gold” as an adult as Lorraine says but there are also Fawn colored yorkies born and clear coated gold and blondes born. As you can see from the photos I've posted they are born golden and stay golden.

Standards in any breed, canine, equine, feline ... are a wonderful guide for achieving what's thought to be the ideal look for the show ring, of course standards can and have changed over the years. My feelings (and many others feelings) are that this is a breed registry and if an off color shows up in a litter of traditional colored dogs, they should have as much rights as their traditional/standard colored siblings have.

[Phoebe_m]

Τhanks for your information! You were very informative, pity on me,not know how to speak good English.
I understand that opinions differ, but I want to tell me if you know the character of those looks like the "aythentic" yorkie? I never meat a biewer or chocolate yorkie so I have no idea about them.I just wanna know. Αlso ,biewer and parti is the same?
Thank you all ,sorry for my english again.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by Phoebe_m

Τhanks for your information! You were very informative, pity on me,not know how to speak good English.
I understand that opinions differ, but I want to tell me if you know the character of those looks like the "aythentic" yorkie? I never meat a biewer or chocolate yorkie so I have no idea about them.I just wanna know. Αlso ,biewer and parti is the same?
Thank you all ,sorry for my english again.

The puppy will be born black and tan. It can have a small spot of white which disappears into the gold furnishings as it matures. It is not born tri colour or gold. Yorkies do not carry a gene for the piebald colour which gives a parti colour nor does it carry a solid gold gene. Those born gold are not purebred.
This page is from the Yorkshire Terrier of AMerica website, it shows pictures of yorkies from fairly newborn as they mature.
pictures
There is a lot of info on this site including how reputable breeders breed to breed standard and strive to breed for correct colour. FAQ is also a good page on there to visit.
This is their main page if you can't get there from the link I sent
Yorkshire Terrier club of America
A reputable breeder will not purposely breed nor promote against a purebred breed standard, they will breed to the breed standard.

[Teresa Ford]

The Ladies are right, there are many opinions about fur types and colors. Depending on the authority you choose. In the early days there was no purebred Yorkie. Humans decided what was desirable. They mated dogs so that they produced the same type of dog every time. That same type of dog generation after generation, is called a standard. Personally I try to breed my dogs to achieve the AKC standard. I do know mutations can happen, recessive genes can pop up, causing a deviation from the standard. I completely agree that these puppies should not be sold as rare, exotic etc. They are not the desired standard. Perfect health should always be the most important thing a buyer should look for. God Bless and I hope you find the perfect baby.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

A reputable breeder will not purposely breed nor promote against a purebred breed standard, they will breed to the breed standard.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

The puppy will be born black and tan. It can have a small spot of white which disappears into the gold furnishings as it matures. It is not born tri colour or gold. Yorkies do not carry a gene for the piebald colour which gives a parti colour nor does it carry a solid gold gene. Those born gold are not purebred.
This page is from the Yorkshire Terrier of AMerica website, it shows pictures of yorkies from fairly newborn as they mature.
pictures
There is a lot of info on this site including how reputable breeders breed to breed standard and strive to breed for correct colour. FAQ is also a good page on there to visit.
This is their main page if you can't get there from the link I sent
Yorkshire Terrier club of America
A reputable breeder will not purposely breed nor promote against a purebred breed standard, they will breed to the breed standard.

Pictured are illustrations from the 1800's depicting terrier dogs who ran freely during that era. I do not believe that spaying and neutering were common practices in those days. It was the offspring of dogs like these, who began the Yorkshire terrier breed. Foundation stock of this breed may have been blue and tan in color but it's the recessive genes that they aquired from dogs like the ones pictured that are still showing up in the breed today, much to the surprise of some breeders! Most of these off colors require both parents to pass on the same recessive color gene in order for the pup to be parti, chocolate or golden, so it will take just the right cross to produce off colors (in lines that we don't know carry for off colors).

A dog who carries a recessive gene for color, will pass that gene onto half of it's offspring. If the carrier offspring reproduces, they will pass that gene onto half of their offspring ... this goes on for generation after generation and unless one of those carriers are bred to another dog who carries the same recessive gene, you'd never know that the recessive gene was there and was being passed on.

Off colored black and gold yorkies were once very popular, there are many black coated champions and they were heavily promoted and liked. These dogs lack the gene that dilutes their black coat to the desired dark steel blue color required by the standard yet they were not discriminated against like the parti, chocolate or goldens are?

I am proud that my dogs are AKC registered and proud that they come from generations of DNA'd dogs. AKC allows these colors to be registered, these colors being the same that have been showing up in litters since the beginning of the breed but were destroyed or quietly handed out the back door to a pet home prior to the year 2000 because they were denied registration (though some people including show breeders, registered the pups as black and tan even though they were parti or another off color).

The problem shouldn't be between the YTCA and breeders of AKC dogs who don't meet the current breed standards, the problem should be between the YTCA and the AKC. Maybe the YTCA should start their own Coat color registry and disassociate themselves from AKC?

Reputable breeders shouldn't deviate from the standard, Reputable breeders won't cull or kill improperly colored offspring, Reputable breeders will sell or give away an off colored puppy with out papers ... I've heard all these things about reputable breeders before in threads on YT and it's been shown that Reputable breeders have destroyed pups strictly due to being the wrong color and reputable breeders have wrongly registered an off colored dog as a traditional colored one in order to get the AKC papers? So why are those breeders reputable but breeders of AKC non standard colors are not reputable?

[Pinehaven]

Sorry, I hit send too soon ...

[Phoebe_m]

Standard yorkies have the same character with parties ,chocolate etc? The only different its the colour ?

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Phoebe_m

Standard yorkies have the same character with parties ,chocolate etc? The only different its the colour ?

The only difference between the blue and tan and the parti, chocolate, golden or black and tans are the genes that cause their coloring. Parti, chocolate, golden and black/tan are no more prone to illnesses or genetic problems than the traditional steel blue colored yorkies are. The above non standard colors, are not defective or weak or freaks of nature as was once thought by early breeders - their coloring is just a result of recessive genes passed down from previous generations!

[Islandloverr]

I hope this doesn't turn ugly like the other threads i've read. But it seems like some posters didn't learn from past experiences to just answer THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED. Not go into "What you think is reputable or not..."...no offense to anyone.

Now correct me if I'm wrong Phoebe_M.....when you say character are you talking about personality wise....like "Are Parti's nicer than standard yorkies?"


& I'm not mind reader or anything, but it seems the OP is asking questions about Biewers, goldens & Chocolates because she has an interest in them. So we are not here to scare her away from them....or make her feel that they're Mutations. Let her research & be the judge of that on her own. She asked a simple question....so why give an excessive answer?

[walkwsmile]

According to the Biewer club, the Biewer originated in Germany by a woman whose name is Biewer. And yes they claim they are a totally different breed. It seems to me that since they are not registrable in America they have been mixed with Yorkies. There are Biewers originating from Germany and Biewer Terriers and parti colored Yorkies. I don't know if a parti colored Yorkie can be registered.
BTW In Germany it is illegal to alter a dog's appearance by surgical methods such as docking the tail or clipping their ears. Biewer have long tails. I am looking for a Biewer. My last dog was a Yorkie, I thought I would get a different breed for my next dog but I still loved my little Gracie, therefore a Biewer came to mind.

[Phoebe_m]

Yes I mean personality So...They are like standards .. Smart,playful,spirited...TERRIER ! they are not more quite like maltese are... I never meat a parti or chocolate yorkie!
I'm interesting just for information, I don't wanna another dog , I have two and thats enough for me But I like to learn about them ,they are beauties and I im wondering if they have more health-problems and about their character-personality .
Thank u again so much for ur time and ur information

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Islandloverr

I hope this doesn't turn ugly like the other threads i've read. But it seems like some posters didn't learn from past experiences to just answer THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED. Not go into "What you think is reputable or not..."...no offense to anyone.

Now correct me if I'm wrong Phoebe_M.....when you say character are you talking about personality wise....like "Are Parti's nicer than standard yorkies?"

& I'm not mind reader or anything, but it seems the OP is asking questions about Biewers, goldens & Chocolates because she has an interest in them. So we are not here to scare her away from them....or make her feel that they're Mutations. Let her research & be the judge of that on her own. She asked a simple question....so why give an excessive answer?

It won't get ugly on my end

I'm not trying to scare anyone one away, rather to educate and show the other side of the story by providing written documentation, pictures, science and just plain logic and common sense to back up the fact that these off colored dogs are purebred yorkshire terriers (talking about AKC partis, I won't comment on the Biewer Terrier fraud/mess). It's coming from the YT's foundation stock, terriers like the dogs pictured earlier, who had no pedigrees and who's heritage was unknown.

It's not easy to completely eradicate color genes from a gene pool. I had my own experience when I raised American Morgan Horses and produced a colt white pinto markings 3 months after the repeal of a rule that would have denied him registry due to having white above the knee. This "High White" rule was in effect for 36 years, it was made to restrict and deny any pinto markings from the breed. There was been mandatory bloodtyping for years and DNAing of all offspring to verify parentage prior to registering any offspring. I was told we'd never see a pinto morgan because the pinto genes had died in the Morgan breed ... but they were wrong! Almost 50 years and 15+ generations later, we have some very loud splash and sabino colored morgan horse.

You can't wish color genes away and to say the YT breed never carried for any color other than blue and tan .... well, I hope I've showed you how they can and have carried other colors besides blue & tan.